Questioning my PDL-loving pastor

[Shieldbearer]

This isn't for debate about whether or not the PDC/PDL is a good or bad thing.

God has revealed very clearly to me through my studies and prayer time (and the links Rebecki posted :thumb ) the problems with this movement.

My church is planning on doing the 40 Days of Purpose in a couple of weeks. After much prayer on the subjuct, it seems I should not join a home group for this study. But I have been increasingly troubled by the problems with the movement, and the way younger Christians are being deceived by them. I belong to a young local church, with a lot of newer believers. I literally hurt for them, and I hurt for our pastor (whom I like despite his leanings toward PDC/PDL) because he is going to be held accountable someday if he leads anyone astray.

I sent him an email earlier this week, basically asking some pretty hard and straightforward questions about the movement. One question I asked is why we are doing 40 Days when we say we believe that the Bible is inerrant and completely sufficient for our lives, and why we are giving out free copies of PDL but not Bibles for the study. I asked if the methods in PDC/PDL don't try to take the place of God leading us. Oh, and lots of other similar questions. I mentioned that I wasn't trying to cause problems, but in trying to be a good Berean, when I searched the Scriptures, I couldn't find the PDC/PDL strategies within. I further noted that Warren uses paraphrases which distort the Word, and uses verses out of context, in order to "prove" his points. Finally, I asked my pastor to spend time looking into my concerns and praying about them.

It's been four days, and still no response. I tend to communicate with him by email, and we had email discussions about the Passion movie :tape and also some previous discussion about PDC/PDL which wasn't so blunt. In the past, he has let me know he received my email if he can't respond to my questions right away. He already knows how I feel to a point. But I'm getting a bit concerned that he hasn't responded.

Anyway, it comes down to this. His response will determine whether we stay with this church or move on. At least, I think it does. I'm not really sure what God wants me to do, but I really feel that He wanted me to voice my concerns to my pastor a final time. My husband, who is a younger Christian than I, just wants to leave, but he admits that is his personal feeling and not necessarily God leading him to leave.

Why can't we all just read our Bibles and worship God and be in harmony with one another?

[Singlesis]

I am praying with you and for your, and for your church. But sadly, you must be prepared to be black-listed or simply ignored now for taking this stand. It happened to me at my church. And it has happened to many of us who don't go along with the crowd, or the latest fad in our churches.

It can be sad and heart-breaking, but God will bless you for standing firm on what you believe in. He has led me to a new church where my childhood pastor is interim! I never dreamed I'd ever sit under that wonderful man of God again. God is good, and he will be with you wherever he leads you!

:hug

[cindyw]

But sadly, you must be prepared to be black-listed or simply ignored now for taking this stand. It happened to me at my church. And it has happened to many of us who don't go along with the crowd, or the latest fad in our churches.

It can be sad and heart-breaking, but God will bless you for standing firm on what you believe in.

:nod :clap Being a Christian who desires to walk in agreement with the Lord's Will/Word, does not make for a "popular" Christian. As singlesis said, the Lord will bless your faithfulness and perseverance--------how ever this situation with your church plays out.........Blessings Shield.............

[Shieldbearer]

Singlesis -

Thanks for your prayers. I know that I might be blacklisted or ignored. In fact, I told my pastor that I knew that this was the method of dealing with dissentors that is taught to leadership in PD churches, and I hoped he wouldn't do that. He knows that I know, anyway.

I'm glad God has led you to find a new church. I don't really want to leave our church. To be honest, I don't have any close relationships there, and don't agree with everything we are doing, but I feel a tremendous need to be there, praying and standing firm. I know that the standard response to a list of questions like I sent to my pastor is to be ignored or worse. That in itself tells me how messed up this whole purpose driven movement is.

I told my husband if we did stay at this church, during the "40 Days Campaign" when our pastor is going to be preaching on "What's my purpose" (no doubt using Warren's sermon notes from the 40DOP kit) that I want to get a t-shirt that reads something along the lines of "Spirit Led, not Purpose Driven" or maybe "Overcoming in the Laodicean Church" and wear it during the services :boxing

[chris_h]

Wow. I'm glad you stood up to your pastor like that! I'm sorry that you may end up having to leave that church.

BTW, I would like one of those "Spirit Led, not Purpose Driven" shirts, too! Where do you get them?

[Shieldbearer]

Wow. I'm glad you stood up to your pastor like that! I'm sorry that you may end up having to leave that church.

BTW, I would like one of those "Spirit Led, not Purpose Driven" shirts, too! Where do you get them?

If you find any of those shirts - let me know. Maybe I'll just get some transfer sheets for the computer and make my own
:):

As far as having to leave - we're pretty much ignored now as it is, and I doubt they'd have the gumption to ask us point blank to leave as long as we were not standing in the hall during services denouncing all things Warren.

I'm just, in the words of a Christian coworker, going to sit back and see what God's going to do here.

[Singlesis]

Hey, I need one of those shirts too! You should trademark that phrase and start selling them!!!

[Shieldbearer]

Hey, I need one of those shirts too! You should trademark that phrase and start selling them!!!

Unfortunately, I am not creative enough to come up with that on my own - I read it somewhere, just can't remember where. Maybe somewhere on the internet?

It's true, though - I'd much rather be led by the Spirit than driven by a man-defined purpose that is based on distorted and out-of-context Bible verses.

[Dove girl]

It's true, though - I'd much rather be led by the Spirit than driven by a man-defined purpose that is based on distorted and out-of-context Bible verses.

:amen

[Shieldbearer]

Well, after several days, I did receive a reply. Although said in nice terms, my pastor asked who I had been talking to, questioned why I and my husband are the only ones who feel this way, asked if there were maybe other issues going on, and wondered if perhaps we should have a meeting with some other members of the church to further discuss this.

He never once looked at the concerns I mentioned, and I am a bit upset about that. I replied that I had been talking to God. I told him that a group meeting would accomplish nothing. I answer only to God, I can't speak for everyone else, but if God tells me PD is wrong then I'm going with what God says. I then mentioned that we were wondering whether we should leave the church.

Just read my response this morning. He jumped all over that comment about leaving the church - "Well, we'll miss you, we hope you don't, but bye". OKay, that's not a literal quote but he seemed to be relieved that I mentioned it and he didn't have to.

Part of me feels really hurt by all this, and part of me feels relieved. We didn't get kicked out of the church, but I think that returning would be a mistake after this conversation.

Now, how to go about finding a non-PDC church in my area . . .

[Singlesis]

I'm sorry but rejoicing with you at the same time! EXACT same thing happened to me, and unfortunately our pastors are following their instructions from Rick Warren. Anyone who questions this movement is to be shunned, blacklisted, and basically driven out. They don't want or need us in their midst. They shunned me and my mother when we needed the church the most. They wouldn't even return my phone calls. Not once has the pastor or her deacon been to visit her in the year since she's been sick. (Yes, we've asked.)

On the upside: once God led me to the new church (with childhood pastor), they have already done more for my family than the church we were life-long members of. The pastor has been to see her several times, and I'm getting fed the Word which I have missed for so long.

God will bless you for standing up for your belief's. Yes, it hurts, but those wounds will soon heal when He leads you where He wants you to be.

:hug

[Charity4Ever]

Anyone who questions this movement is to be shunned, blacklisted, and basically driven out.


:scared :faint

The Bible says to test the spirits. It also says to compare everything to Scripture. The Bible also has instructions for the Church to be welcoming to people who question and are curious. So if you read the Bible, and believe it you are out.

Is that the only pastor at your church, or is he the "head" pastor? If there are others, I would talk to the others and see where they stand. If they are also uncertain and are skeptical, but just want to go along with the "head," than something needs to be done with the "head" pastor.

If I were you, I would express your concerns to other churchgoers and find others that may agree with you but just didn't say anything, if there are any. If there are any, I would get to know them. I would go through with a Bible, a PDL book, and commentaries by well-known and well-loved Bible scholars, and make a list of ALL the problems with PDL theology. And then I would make a list, and then contact as many new believers/church members as you can and explain the problems, and point them out item by item in both the Bible and in the PDL book. Tell them what you feel God has led you to do and what has grieved your spirit and why. Tell them that as a seasoned believer and a sister in Christ, you were concerned about this movement and that you care for their growth and spiritual health.

It says in the Bible that if you have a problem with somebody, to take it to them first, and if that doesn't work to take it to a group of people, and if that can't be done to then take it to the whole Church. Right now, you're going to be gone/shunned/unwelcome anyway. Nobody can excommunicate you from the Body of Christ. The matter at hand is all the young Christians who don't know to leave and who don't know any different, and to be educated. If you go to all the people, that will at least give them the knowledge they need to make their own decision. They can accept or reject, but they will have heard it. And they may not agree with you, but they can still say you cared enough about them to speak your convictions.

[tay]

My church is also planning on doing the pdl thing in October. At first my understanding was that it would just be on our Sunday nights, but last week confirmed that it would be ALL services, even the children's classes. I live in a small town that doesn't have but one other church I would even think of attending. I absolutely love my pastor, but last week when the words "Rick Warren says" came out of his mouth, I about left. I don't know what to do either. I talked to my father (christian) and he suggested I try it and see if it holds up to scripture or not, and base my decision on leaving or staying on that. The problem is, I can already see that it doesn't hold up to the testing of scripture. Does anybody know any teaching series that has been put out that is a biblically sound that one could do on his own, not necessarily a counter point to pdl but a teaching series that speaks the truth about the similar topics that pdl discusses? Thanks

[Kaz]

Hi All...Newbie here...

Link for "Spirit Led or Purpose Driven" motto:
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2003/1-purpose.htm

Link for comparing PDL to Bible - (PDF format):
http://www.despatch.cth.com.au/Books_V/chartSunquistbk.pdf

Link for day by day (40 day) analysis of PDL with Bible:
http://www.challies.com/archives/000030.php

As y'all can see we've dealt with it too and have been searching for a church for two years now...

Jesus bless...Kaz

[tay]

Thank you Kaz! That comparison chart is just what I was looking for. Welcome to RR. Hope you enjoy your stay here.

[BarbT]

Now, how to go about finding a non-PDC church in my area . . . Shieldbearor {:hug}

I pray there is a Calvary Chapel close to you in Indiana. If you and DH decide to leave Laodicea the link below might help you. Also, please check out the thread about Calvary Chapels going in CT right now. :thumb

http://www.calvarychapel.com/affiliates/IN.htm

[spadart]

I am confused about the whole shunning thing, does it say in the book that those who do not agree with the pdl movement are acting contrary to God's word, or is it that churches are telling people to leave when they hear opposition? My church did the PDL thing and I felt drawn to investigate more. I compared with my bible, read other articles on the internet and decided that I would not participate. Many of the youth in the church disagreed with the movement or expressed their dislike and were not shunned from it. I did not attend services during the 40 days thing and I cringe everytime one of the pastors mentions what "we learned" during the 40 days etc. etc.

[Becky]

Good question spadart. I was wondering the same thing.

Thanks for the links Kaz. They are a big help.

[KristinC]

My church is also jumping on the PDL bandwagon in October. Since I've read so much bad stuff about PDL I was kind of worried about it, but I'm going to give it a chance and then make up my mind from there. If I don't like it then I won't participate in the small groups.