Elohim...as opposed to Jehovah

[frisian1970]

Please forgive my ignorance of Hebrew, but I am attempting to understand the differing Hebrew words for God.

Elohim (God or gods)

1) (plural)

a) rulers, judges

b) divine ones

c) angels

d) gods

2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)

a) god, goddess

b) godlike one

c) works or special possessions of God

d) the (true) God

e) God

As opposed to 'Jehovah'

Jehovah = "the existing One" (Lord)

1) the proper name of the one true God

a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136


For instance, in Genesis it says "God created the heavens and the earth". The Hebrew word used is 'Elohim'. Why isn't "Jehovah" used as opposed to the seemingly generic 'Elohim'?

The word 'Elohim' is used in reference to apparently false gods as well?

[Hootmon]

I wouldnt be surprised to find the aleph-tav being used to to point out the different usages of 'ĕlôhîym'.

For instance, it does appear in Genesis 1:1... Gen 1:1 In the beginning7225 God430 created1254 (853) the heaven8064 and the earth.776

H853
את
'êth
ayth
Apparently contracted from H226 in the demonstrative sense of entity; properly self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely): - (As such unrepresented in English.) Something along the lines of In the beginning, God himself created the heavens and the earth

The aleph-tav means 'sign' and 'silence/infinite'. Its a way of pointing at oneself and saying 'this is me'.

At least, that is what Ive gleaned from the discussion we had awhile back.

[frisian1970]

I wouldnt be surprised to find the aleph-tav being used to to point out the different usages of 'ĕlôhîym'.

For instance, it does appear in Genesis 1:1... Something along the lines of In the beginning, God himself created the heavens and the earth

That was my thinking also, so is that explicitly what separates what I would call the common use of the word 'ĕlôhîym'? In other words, 'ĕlôhîym' is the word used for gods of other nations/peoples. Is the aleph-tav ALWAYS used in conjunction with 'ĕlôhîym' in order to specify that it is indeed Jehovah that it refers to?

Am I making any sense?

:doh :doh :doh :lol

[Hootmon]

The word 'Elohim' is used in reference to apparently false gods as well? Without the aleph-tav, using 'elohim' for god(s) implies to me 'gods who are not gods'.

A 'lesser' form, if you like. One which allows a substitution of rulers/judges, whereas the aleph-tav does not allow that substitution.

{Edit: This is all my opinion at this point. STill learning this stuff...}

[Hootmon]

Am I making any sense? Yes, but Im not sure about the always part. I need a :kev to answer that...

[frisian1970]

Without the aleph-tav, using 'elohim' for god(s) implies to me 'gods who are not gods'.

A 'lesser' form, if you like. One which allows a substitution of rulers/judges, whereas the aleph-tav does not allow that substitution.

{Edit: This is all my opinion at this point. STill learning this stuff...}

With the Aleph-tav "making" it indicative of the plural intensive for 'Elohim'?

And yes I understand you are still learning this.

I pm'ed Rabbi Kev.

:noidea

[Hootmon]

In addition to the aleph-tav, the word 'LORD' is used to qualify elohim. 'LORD' is the word for 'Jehovah'.

In a way, the 'I AM' is equivalent to the 'sign-silence/infinity'. They are both indicative of God himself as opposed to any generic 'god'.

[frisian1970]

In addition to the aleph-tav, the word 'LORD' is used to qualify elohim. 'LORD' is the word for 'Jehovah'.

In a way, the 'I AM' is equivalent to the 'sign-silence/infinity'. They are both indicative of God himself as opposed to any generic 'god'.

Hmmmm.

[antsinmypants]

Hi :wave


Jehovah really isn't the name of G-d. YHVH is, and Ad-nai is a title for him, and when the bible was translated to english, the translators smushed Ad-nai and YHVH together, because Ad-nai was written above it. :):

Anywayyyyyyyy..

Everytime I've seen El-him used as the title for YHVH, I've seen either an Aleph-Tav present or another title such as YHVH present.

E-sword has the KJV+ version of the bible which allows you to check everything there without having any Hebrew in your bg, or a limited amount.. and where I have seen it- i've seen another title there. IF it isn't, I'm sure it's made known which El-him is being represented.

When I've seen elohim in reference to other gods, i've seen their names in close proximity.

Hope that's clearer than mud.

[Hootmon]

The MKJV renders 'LORD God' as 'Jehovah God', which makes it very obvious. What I find interesting is the rendering in the KJV, which highlights 'God names' differently... (Genesis 22:14)
And Abraham85 called7121 the name8034 of that1931 place4725 Jehovah-jireh:3070 as834 it is said559 to this day,3117 In the mount2022 of the LORD3068 it shall be seen.7200

(Exodus 6:3)
And I appeared7200 unto413 Abraham,85 unto413 Isaac,3327 and unto413 Jacob,3290 by the name of God410 Almighty,7706 but by my name8034 JEHOVAH3068 was I not3808 known3045 to them.

(Exodus 17:15)
And Moses4872 built1129 an altar,4196 and called7121 the name8034 of it Jehovah-nissi:3071

(Judges 6:24)
Then Gideon1439 built1129 an altar4196 there8033 unto the LORD,3068 and called7121 it Jehovah-shalom:3073 unto5704 this2088 day3117 it is yet5750 in Ophrah6084 of the Abi-ezrites.33

(Psalms 83:18)
That men may know3045 that3588 thou,859 whose name8034 alone905 is JEHOVAH,3068 art the most high5945 over5921 all3605 the earth.776

(Isaiah 12:2)
Behold,2009 God410 is my salvation;3444 I will trust,982 and not3808 be afraid:6342 for3588 the LORD3050 JEHOVAH3068 is my strength5797 and my song;2176 he also is become1961 my salvation.3444

(Isaiah 26:4)
Trust982 ye in the LORD3068 forever:5704, 5703 for3588 in the LORD3050 JEHOVAH3068 is everlasting5769 strength:6697

[frisian1970]

Ok, Ants that made sense I think, and thanks.

[Hootmon]

Everytime I've seen El-him used as the title for YHVH, I've seen either an Aleph-Tav present or another title such as YHVH present. That does seem to be the case.



When I've seen elohim in reference to other gods, i've seen their names in close proximity. :nod

'Proper' names, or some referent that indicates 'ownership'.

[warbar]

I've also read that Elohim is the plural of El, or Eloha, which is a name of God. So Elohim would be showing the plurality of the Triune God or the Trinity, as in 1John 5:7

"There are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost."

Because the name Elohim is used in Genesis 1, they said that name is descriptive of 'The Creator God(s)', and that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were all present and 'one' or unified, during the creative process.

I also have an interesting Hebrew study from Bill Cloud that says the words in Genesis 1 "bara Elohim" also describes the Trinity (the Hebrew word 'bara' means 'created').

"...it is appropriate to take Hebrew words and use them as acronyms. When we do this with the word, "bara", this is what we discover. The first letter is 'bet', as in the word 'ben', meaning 'son'.

The second letter is 'resh', which is the first letter in the word 'ruach', meaning 'spirit'.

The last letter in this word is 'alef', which begins the word 'abba', or 'father'.
Clearly, this tends to indicate that the doctrine of the Trinity is valid."

So 'bara Elohim' would be the Creator God or Triune God.

[antsinmypants]

I've also read that Elohim is the plural of El, or Eloha, which is a name of God. So Elohim would be showing the plurality of the Triune God or the Trinity, as in 1John 5:7

Yes, El-him is the plural of El.


Because the name Elohim is used in Genesis 1, they said that name is descriptive of 'The Creator God(s)', and that God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were all present and 'one' or unified, during the creative process.

I also have an interesting Hebrew study from Bill Cloud that says the words in Genesis 1 "bara Elohim" also describes the Trinity (the Hebrew word 'bara' means 'created').

Actually it does say "in the beginning created El-him Aleph-Tav."

In the beginning G-d created a way Man can relate to Him. :):


"...it is appropriate to take Hebrew words and use them as acronyms. When we do this with the word, "bara", this is what we discover. The first letter is 'bet', as in the word 'ben', meaning 'son'.

Actually.. The first letter is Bet, which means House/into house, not son. :):

The second letter is 'resh', which is the first letter in the word 'ruach', meaning 'spirit'.

This is clearly alegorical, as Gematria shows that Resh is actually for Head, The Highest.

The last letter in this word is 'alef', which begins the word 'abba', or 'father'.
Clearly, this tends to indicate that the doctrine of the Trinity is valid."

Actually the Aleph stands for Ox/Strength, Leader, FIRST - which stands for Y'shua.


:wave

P.S. here's the image:

http://www.crimsonstained.com/jp/BGHebrewLetters.jpg

[warbar]

Hi Ants -

He is talking about ACRONYMS not the meaning of the letters. (I believe I wrote that).

He explained:

"Another way to find 'secrets' (according to Jewish sages) is the use of ACRONYMS. A good example of that is the word "yisrael", or "Israel". The sages teach that within this word is the acronym for every one of the spiritual forebears of Judaism:

yod - Israel and Jacob

shiyn - Sarah

resh - Rachel and Rebecca

alef - Abraham

lamed - Leah.

So it's just another way they would study like gematria, or permutations of a word. :):

[blitzkreig]

I have attempted to put together a Hebrew glossary of names and descriptions used in the Bible.

Most all is cut and paste from a glossary or two... that I sourced from newsgroups.
I know I missed a bunch of names but it is a start anyway. If anyone has additions please
do let me know and I will update the list...

The name and titles of YHWH also have a strong relational content-His
personal Name, YHWH, speaks of escalating manifest being; His title
Elohim signifies a relation of creative and judgemental might that
induces awe and reverence; Adonai denotes a relation of sovereign,
royal power. In contrast, our Greco-Roman heritage often teaches us
wrong, non-relational concepts.

YHWH is our Elohim-He is mighty and we stand in awe of Him.
Relationally to me, the Messiah is Adoni v'Eli-my sovereign master
(Psalm 110:1) and my mighty one (El; Elohim) before whom I tremble in
reverential awe (Psalm 45:7); the fulness of YHWH is manifest bodily
in Him (Yochanan 20:28). Relationally to the Father, the Father is
the Elohim of Yahushua the Messiah-cf. Yochanan 17:3 and Revelation


Adoni

"My Adon," i.e. "my master." A term for the Messiah in Tehillim
110:1.

Adonai
An intensive of Adon; "Great Master." A title used to address kings
and royalty. The name Adonai is most often used of the Almighty in
the writings of the prophets, because they were the messengers of the
King, so that they use the terminology of a messenger of a king.

In Jewish worship, this name is often used as an evasive synonym for
YHWH, the set-apart name of HaKadosh, baruch Hu. The term Adonai is a
plural of majesty. It is not the unique name of the Almighty; in
Scripture it is also used of mighty men, e.g. Yosef as
"vice-president" of Mitzrayim under Pharaoh, and of King David.

Almighty
The personal name of the Almighty is UYUW (YHWH). Hebraic names by
which He is addressed, include HaKadosh Baruch Hu (the Set-apart One,
blessed be He), Ribono shel Olam, HaRachamam, Adoshem, Adon Olam
(Master of All) and Avinu Sheba-shamayim (our Father in Heaven).

Ancient of Days
A title for YHWH in Dani'el 7:9. Called the Before-Time in the book
of Chanoch (Enoch).

El Elyon
El Most High.

Elohim
Mighty one before whom one trembles in awe. Used of YHWH the Father,
and also of the Son, as a plural of intensity and majesty. Used of
idols and judges as a normal plural noun. Elohim is not the personal
name of the Almighty, but a relational term. In Tehillim 45:7, the
relationship between the prophetic poet and the Messiah is that the
Messiah is the Elohim of the human poet, while YHWH the Father is the
Elohim of His anointed Son. Throughout Scripture, the Messiah is, in
His presence, YHWH Elohim manifest; yet in His service, He is the
servant of YHWH His Elohim, calling the Father "my Elohim" and "the
only true Elohim."

El Shaddai
The All-Sufficient and Almighty One. Until the time of Mosheh, the
Almighty made Himself known to the patriarchs in the character
expressed by the name El Shaddai. Ever since Mosheh, He has also
revealed Himself in the character expressed by the name
YHWH-everlasting, escalating, manifest existence expressed in loyal
covenantal love.

HaElyon
The Most High.

HaShem
Literally: "the Name." An evasive synonym for the explicit Hebrew
name of the Almighty, YHWH.
Magen
Shield. A term for the Messiah. Psalm 84:9 says,

"Behold, O Elohim, our Magen (Shield),
and look upon the face of your Mashiach."

Mashiach
Messiah. (Greek: Christos.) The anointed, empowered One. The
Messiah was sent forth by the Father to accomplish the redemption of
man. Every king, prophet and high priest of Israel was called a
messiah. The anointed prophets spoke the Devar (Word) of UYUW to his
people, served as his instrument to work nissim (miracles) and
interceded on behalf of the people. The high priest served UYUW in
the services of the Beit HaMikdash (Temple), representing the people
before UYUW in services that taught that without the shedding of
blood, there is no remission of sins. The king had to rule with
justice, as good shepherds who applied the principles of YHWH's
kingship on earth. The king was anointed as the one chosen by YHWH to
represent His rulership in Israel and to bear witness to His glory
before the nations. These three offices were pictures of the Messiah,
who is the Prophet, the High Priest and the King. In Messiah's first
coming, the emphasis was on the prophet who spoke the Devar and the
high priest who actively interposed his own shed sacrificial blood
between YHWH and the sinner as a kapparah (atoning covering) for our
sin. At present, the emphasis in the work of the Messiah is on the
role of the interceding High Priest. In His second coming, the
emphasis will be on His role as King. Yet He will always stand in all
three these offices.

The term messiah is an Anglicisation of the Latin word messias, which
is a transliteration of the Greek messias, a translation of the
Aramaic meshiha, which is in turn a translation and shortening of the
Hebrew HaMelekh HaMashiach-"the King Messiah."

Some prophetic titles of the Messiah

Prophetic Title Reference The Coming One Malachi 3:1 & Z'kharyah 9:9
The Elect One Yesha'yahu 42:1
Adon Tehillim 110:1
Son of Man Dani'el 7:13
The Son Tehillim 2
Immanu'elYesha'yahu 7-8
The Branch (Tzemach)Yesha'ya hu11:1; Yirmeyahu 23:5b
The Banner (Nissi)Yesha'yahu 11:10; 18:3
The Capstone Tehillim 118:22
The Green Tree Rabbinic title (Yechezk'el20:47)
Seed of the Woman Genesis 3:15
The Alef and the TovZ'kharyah 12:10; Genesis 1:1
The Man the Son of Peretz Rabbinic title (Ruth4:18)
Son of the Clouds Rabbinic title (Dani'el 7:13)
The Messenger of UYUWGenesis 22; Exodus 3; .
The Messenger of the PresenceYesha'yahu 63:9
The Arm of UYUWYesha'yahu 40-66
The Yoted The Shield (Magen)Psalm 84:9; Yesha'yahu 21:5b
The Lion of the tribe of Yahudah Genesis 49;Revelation 4-5
The Go'el (Redeemer)(many)
The Eved (Servant) of UYUW Yesha'yahu 42-53
The Rock(many)The Prophet Devarim 18
The Good Shepherd Genesis 49; Z'kharyah 11 & 13
The Teacher of Righteousness Yo'el 2:23
The Sun of Righteousness Genesis 1:14-18; Malachi 4:2
The Light of the World Genesis 1:14-18; Yesha'yahu 9:2
Shiloh Genesis 49:10b
Shiloach Yesha'yahu 8:6
Wonderful Counsellor Mighty El Father of Time Prince of Peace Yesha'yahu 9:6

Some names ascribed to King Messiah in ancient rabbinic sources.
(Lamentations Rabba, Midrash Mishle, S. Buber's note to Midrash
Mishle, Targum to 1 Chronicles. Quoted in Patai (1979:21-23, 81-83)).

Name of Messiah Meaning of the name YHWH Personal Name of the
Almighty Yinnon To continue forever Tzemach Shoot,
Branch Pele Miracle Yo'etz Counsellor, advisor Mashiach The Anointed
One El Mighty One before whom we tremble Givvor Mighty Hero Avi'Ad
Shalom Everlasting Father of Peace Tzidkenu Our
Justice/Righteousness Menachem Comforter[My Servant] David(cf.
Yechezk'el 34:23 & 37:24)Shiloh Him to whom the right
Belongs Hanina Favour Nehira Light Bar-NifleSon of the Clouds Anani He of the clouds The Green Tree Yechezk'el 20:45-49; Luke 23:31ben-Adam Son of Manben-David Son of David ben-YosefSon of Josephben-Elohim Son of Elohimha Navi The Prophet HaMoreh The Teacher

Nissi
Banner. A term for the Messiah in passages such as Yesha'yahu 11:10,
13:2 and 18:3.

[antsinmypants]

Hi Ants -

He is talking about ACRONYMS not the meaning of the letters. (I believe I wrote that).

that wasn't in the post, hence the disagreement.

I've not as of yet seen the use of acronymns in that fashion, but if I do, i'll let y'all know.

[warbar]

that wasn't in the post, hence the disagreement.

I've not as of yet seen the use of acronymns in that fashion, but if I do, i'll let y'all know.


I was only trying to share what I read. If you re-read my post you'll see it was in there and still is. I didn't answer to cause a problem - I only tried to share what I read with Frisian. You don't have to let me know - I'm not trying to offend anybody, though it seems I have, I meant no offense. Iwas only trying to share something I read that was interesting to me.

[antsinmypants]

I was only trying to share what I read. If you re-read my post you'll see it was in there and still is. I didn't answer to cause a problem - I only tried to share what I read with Frisian. You don't have to let me know - I'm not trying to offend anybody, though it seems I have, I meant no offense. Iwas only trying to share something I read that was interesting to me.

I read it a few times and didn't see the word acronym. I did see them used *as* acronymns. I see that it was in there as of 10:10 AM yesterday, which was when the post was edited and about the time mine was posted. It's possible I didn't see it after reading your post a few times over while composing mine.

I am not upset, and I don't think there's been a problem. There was confusion though.

I know I don't have to let you know personally if I ever find that this is a valid form of interpretation. I've never heard of it being used, and I have often seen things attributed to talmud or old biblical interpretation that just aren't so. Such as gematria = numerology, and I am very leery in just taking a bible commentator's word on something without verifying in a few hundred other sources that this is so. That's what was meant.

I'm sorry if there was some offence taken, as none was ever meant. I never took offence.