Homosexuals: Any testimonies? I need some.

[BloodBought]

Hi guys,

A friend at work and I are having a debate. Okay we both believe once saved always saved, but when it comes to homosexuals that's where we bump heads.

I believe that a homosexual is just as capable of getting saved as anyone else, however, they will turn from their sin (2 Cor 5:17). The bible says we are a new creature in Jesus when we get saved. If that person chooses to continue to practice that sin, I highly doubt they can be saved. I'm not saying they won't fall short. We all do (Rom 3:23). However, if you ask most homosexuals what they think about our bible or our God, they hate it. They hate everything that we as Christians stand for. They have rallies against us, and don't like to retain God in their knowledge just as those referred to in Rom 1:24-32.

I just think there are some sins that a person has a hard time turning away from, therefore they can't be saved....such as homosexuality, drugs, money, power. (I'm not saying in ALL cases, but most cases. God can saved anyone he chooses) However, even Jesus himself said it'd be hard for a rich man to enter into heaven (Matt 19:24).

Where we differ is that she believes a person who is a homosexual and continues to practice homosexuality, they can still be saved, but it goes against any scripture I've just mentioned. What do you guys think, or what scripture can you give me to help me in this study.

Also, I remember a long time ago a guy that used to post here ( I think an admin not sure) but was a homosexual. He got saved and turned from that lifestyle. I'd love a testimony or two to give to my friend if there is any.

[Jiggy37]

I just think there are some sins that a person has a hard time turning away from, therefore they can't be saved....such as homosexuality, drugs, money, power. (I'm not saying in ALL cases, but most cases. God can saved anyone he chooses) However, even Jesus himself said it'd be hard for a rich man to enter into heaven (Matt 19:24).

Where we differ is that she believes a person who is a homosexual and continues to practice homosexuality, they can still be saved, but it goes against any scripture I've just mentioned.
Depends on whether they continue to practice unrepentant homosexuality, I would think... A lot of people may continue to battle an alcohol addiction (to use one of your examples) after becoming saved while being repentant of it.

Also, I remember a long time ago a guy that used to post here ( I think an admin not sure) but was a homosexual. He got saved and turned from that lifestyle. I'd love a testimony or two to give to my friend if there is any.
Perhaps BigglesNC (http://www.rr-bb.com/member.php?u=284), who's a former admin? He hasn't been around in quite a while, though, so I would ask Aineo1 (http://www.rr-bb.com/member.php?userid=561)--and you can check out his site in his signature. :):

[GratefulHeart]

Hi guys,

I believe that a homosexual is just as capable of getting saved as anyone else, however, they will turn from their sin (2 Cor 5:17). The bible says we are a new creature in Jesus when we get saved. If that person chooses to continue to practice that sin, I highly doubt they can be saved. I'm not saying they won't fall short. We all do (Rom 3:23). However, if you ask most homosexuals what they think about our bible or our God, they hate it. They hate everything that we as Christians stand for. They have rallies against us, and don't like to retain God in their knowledge just as those referred to in Rom 1:24-32.

I just think there are some sins that a person has a hard time turning away from, therefore they can't be saved....such as homosexuality, drugs, money, power. (I'm not saying in ALL cases, but most cases. God can saved anyone he chooses) However, even Jesus himself said it'd be hard for a rich man to enter into heaven (Matt 19:24).


Wow, where's the grace??? So you've determined that homosexuality, drugs, money and power are the quintessential sins that prevent a person's salvation? How did you develop this list? Do you believe that people who struggle with lust, lying, pornography or gluttony have a better chance at salvation? Do you not know people who've been saved, yet continued to struggle with sin in some area of their life?

Truth is, every person's journey is different and God develops us in His timing. Some are instantly freed of a particular sin/struggle at the moment of salvation. I've seen that. Others are not and have continued to struggle. Seen that too. You are right in that there are some sins that people have a difficult time turning away from, but to make such a statement that therefore they can't be saved. That's absurd. David was a man after God's own heart, yet his adultry and murdering came after he became king. Point is, God knew David's heart. David struggled with sin, yet he knew and loved God.

I'm sure you're well aware of the fact that God is the only one who knows our hearts. He alone knows who has received Jesus as Lord and Savior and who has not.

I do believe that God in his mercy and sovereignty might take one of His children home if that Believer CONTINUES to engage in wilfull, blatent sin of some sort. To continue in that kind of behavior as a Believer may shorten one's lifespan, when it might have been otherwise had he repented.

Sorry to ramble, but your post was really unbelievable to me. You pretty much negate the "once saved always saved" when you start listing sins that you deem unsavable.

[Now You See HIM]

A few more sites to consider for testimonies and other information...

www.pfox.org
www.exodus.to
www.harvestusa.org

P.S.: Just in case it doesn't work through the profile, Aineo1's site is at www.aineotheos.org.

[Jael]

Hi guys,

A friend at work and I are having a debate. Okay we both believe once saved always saved, but when it comes to homosexuals that's where we bump heads.

I believe that a homosexual is just as capable of getting saved as anyone else, however, they will turn from their sin (2 Cor 5:17). The bible says we are a new creature in Jesus when we get saved. If that person chooses to continue to practice that sin, I highly doubt they can be saved. I'm not saying they won't fall short. We all do (Rom 3:23).

I agree that someone who is saved will repent and will not practice a lifestyle of immorality. As you say, a Christian may continue to struggle with homosexuality (as a heterosexual might struggle with fornication, or a married Christian with adultery). But a true Christian will not embrace sin unrepentantly, will not justify it or excuse it. A Christian who falls into sin is most miserable, because he or she agrees with God that it is detestable and wants to stop. A Christian who willfully pursues a sinful lifestyle will experience God's discipline, up to and including death, if that is what it takes (1Cr 11:30). If someone practices a lifestyle of sin with no conviction or repentance, and they have no problem flouting the Lord's commands indefinitely, they are probably not saved (1Jo 3:4-10, 1Jo 2:4).

I just think there are some sins that a person has a hard time turning away from, therefore they can't be saved....such as homosexuality, drugs, money, power. (I'm not saying in ALL cases, but most cases. God can saved anyone he chooses) However, even Jesus himself said it'd be hard for a rich man to enter into heaven (Matt 19:24).

I have to disagree with you here...I don't think there is any sin from which a person can't be saved. People have been saved from the absolute depths of degradation and deep sin, so no one is to be written off as beyond salvation. All of us were once children of wrath:

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Paul told the Corinthians 1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you, and included on that list were the "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind". So clearly, homosexuals are not beyond God's saving grace.

Where we differ is that she believes a person who is a homosexual and continues to practice homosexuality, they can still be saved, but it goes against any scripture I've just mentioned. What do you guys think, or what scripture can you give me to help me in this study.

We know that believers can get caught up in sin...however, a true believer will experience heavy conviction and chastening from the Lord. A believer will not militantly proclaim his/her right to sin, but will be deeply distressed at not being able to obey God and will seek the Lord for deliverance. A true Christian will desire to do as the Bible says:

2Cr 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Of course sanctification is a process...it doesn't happen overnight, but it should begin when a person comes to Christ.

A Christian brother/sister who has turned from homosexuality, but occasionally falls to temptation is no different from a brother/sister who occasionally succumbs to temptation and fornicates with someone of the opposite sex. It's not right, but it happens, and the sinning Christian repents and goes on. On the other hand, if someone moves in with his/her lover (same sex or opposite sex), refuses to acknowledge God's word on the matter of fornication, and justifies his/her decision to practice a lifestyle of rebellion against God, then there is reasonable doubt about that person's salvation. We can't state with certainty that they are not saved, but there is reason to be somewhat skeptical. And if they do not respond to entreaties and pleas and rebukes and admonishments, but continue to practice that immoral lifestyle, then we are told to withdraw from fellowship from that person (1Cr 5:11).

Sexual sin is no different from any other sin...a Christian may tell a lie and repent from that, but you will not hear a Christian say "I'm a liar and proud of it". A Christian wants to please God and will mourn over those sins that he/she has not been able to overcome. If I did hear a professed Christian advocate a lifestyle of lying, I would have to question that person's fruit, although I would not attempt to pronounce judgement on whether or not they are saved. Peter said we should not stop at professing faith in Christ, but should continue on to grow in Him:

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

And I have known many saved homosexuals who did just that - turned from that lifestyle and overcame that sin. Some who remained celibate and some who eventually married. Sadly, I also know at least one who didn't and the Lord took him home. But before he went, he repented and the Lord used him in an incredible way to reach lost homosexuals. In less than two months, he was responsible for hundreds hearing the gospel and many being saved...and then he went home to be with the Lord.

[BloodBought]

Sorry to ramble, but your post was really unbelievable to me. You pretty much negate the "once saved always saved" when you start listing sins that you deem unsavable.

I'm just going to repost what I originally said for a moment.

"I just think there are some sins that a person has a hard time turning away from, therefore they can't be saved....such as homosexuality, drugs, money, power. (I'm not saying in ALL cases, but most cases. God can saved anyone he chooses) However, even Jesus himself said it'd be hard for a rich man to enter into heaven (Matt 19:24)."

Jesus said it's hard for a rich man to get into heaven, but God can save rich people too can't he? That's the point I'm making. Yes, the grace of God can't save anyone. But like Jesus said, it's hard for certain people to get to heaven, because they're not willing to give up their "riches" or "sins" is all I'm saying. If I'm misunderstanding what Jesus is saying here, please give me your interpretation of that verse, because I think it's pretty self explanatory.

[BloodBought]

I agree that someone who is saved will repent and will not practice a lifestyle of immorality. As you say, a Christian may continue to struggle with homosexuality (as a heterosexual might struggle with fornication, or a married Christian with adultery). But a true Christian will not embrace sin unrepentantly, will not justify it or excuse it. A Christian who falls into sin is most miserable, because he or she agrees with God that it is detestable and wants to stop. A Christian who willfully pursues a sinful lifestyle will experience God's discipline, up to and including death, if that is what it takes (1Cr 11:30). If someone practices a lifestyle of sin with no conviction or repentance, and they have no problem flouting the Lord's commands indefinitely, they are probably not saved (1Jo 3:4-10, 1Jo 2:4).

I couldn't have said it better myself!

I have to disagree with you here...I don't think there is any sin from which a person can't be saved. People have been saved from the absolute depths of degradation and deep sin, so no one is to be written off as beyond salvation. All of us were once children of wrath

I'm not saying that there's a sin that one can't be saved from. I know of the one unpardonable sin. I'm saying that if the person is not willing to repent and give up the sinful lifestyle and become a new creature, he can not be saved. Repentance must come before salvation right? Again I realize we're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God, but I have to refer back to the first paragraph your wrote. If you embrace sin unrepentantly, I highly question your salvation. However, you are right in that who are we to judge of one's salvation, but the bible says we'll know them by their fruits.

[GratefulHeart]

A Christian brother/sister who has turned from homosexuality, but occasionally falls to temptation is no different from a brother/sister who occasionally succumbs to temptation and fornicates with someone of the opposite sex. It's not right, but it happens, and the sinning Christian repents and goes on. On the other hand, if someone moves in with his/her lover (same sex or opposite sex), refuses to acknowledge God's word on the matter of fornication, and justifies his/her decision to practice a lifestyle of rebellion against God, then there is reasonable doubt about that person's salvation. We can't state with certainty that they are not saved, but there is reason to be somewhat skeptical. And if they do not respond to entreaties and pleas and rebukes and admonishments, but continue to practice that immoral lifestyle, then we are told to withdraw from fellowship from that person (1Cr 5:11).



This was a really great post. I would just caution any of us who are Christians to not ever make judgments on the condition of another person's heart. There are Christians who have lived years in rebellion, only to finally respond to the conviction and the wooing of the Holy Spirit and repent. My husband was one. He was saved at 15 - no doubts as to what he'd experienced. He initially was zealous for God, but then lived in rebellion until he was about 40 years old. Anyone seeing his behavior during those years would have surely written him off as not saved. But God, in His timing, drew him back to Himself.

Sometimes rebellion is quite blatent, and sometimes it's a very long time before someone is repentant.

I believe we should always extend the mercy and grace of God to our brothers and sisters who are in need. And if we have to break ties for a season, we'd better be on our knees in prayer for safe return home.

[GratefulHeart]

I'm not saying that there's a sin that one can't be saved from. I know of the one unpardonable sin. I'm saying that if the person is not willing to repent and give up the sinful lifestyle and become a new creature, he can not be saved. Repentance must come before salvation right? Again I realize we're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God, but I have to refer back to the first paragraph your wrote. If you embrace sin unrepentantly, I highly question your salvation. However, you are right in that who are we to judge of one's salvation, but the bible says we'll know them by their fruits.

I disagree that repentance must come before salvation. Of course, I'd better preface this by saying that I don't subscribe to the "sinner's prayer," meaning a person doesn't have to say the just the right words in just the right order to be saved. There are people who have simply cried out to God in total despair and total desparation, having no magic words - not even aware of a "sinner's prayer." That said, someone may just simply say to God, "Lord, I can't do this on my own. I can't give up the _____________ (fill in the blank) on my own. If it's going to get done, You are gonna have to do it."

I think the key is willingness to surrender, not necessarily confession of all your sin in order to be saved. I would submit that when a person comes for salvation, he isn't even aware of all the sin in his life. It becomes the job of the Holy Spirit to convict and bring to the light the sins of a person's heart.


Jesus said it's hard for a rich man to get into heaven, but God can save rich people too can't he? That's the point I'm making. Yes, the grace of God can't save anyone. But like Jesus said, it's hard for certain people to get to heaven, because they're not willing to give up their "riches" or "sins" is all I'm saying. If I'm misunderstanding what Jesus is saying here, please give me your interpretation of that verse, because I think it's pretty self explanatory.

In the Matt 19:24 verse, Jesus is only referring to wealth/possessions. There is no equating riches with sins. He was told by Jesus to go sell his possessions and give to the poor. His wealth and lack of commitment and coveting his money were the man's problem.

[GratefulHeart]

Also just wanted to add this. Our salvation and/or forgiveness of sin does not lie in the quality of our confession. Salvation and/or forgiveness of sin does lie in the quality of Christ's sacrifice. If salvation was dependent on our "sincerity," then just how would that sincerity be measured? How would we know when we are sincere enough? When anything is dependent on us, we are treading on the law and legalism. It is all dependent on Him.

Before anyone comes to a saving knowledge of Christ, they are dead. And dead people don't need repentance, they need life. Jesus first offers us life before anything else.

[Aineo1]

If you believe in OSAS then how can you debate this website:
www.whosoever.net

[GratefulHeart]

If you believe in OSAS then how can you debate this website:
www.whosoever.net


I'm not sure that I competely understand the question. I would say that the church and it's members are in the throes of deep deception. Clearly, we are not to engage in, and then continue in sinful behavior. And the Lord has made it abundantly clear that homosexual behavior is sin. The members of that church are either A)saved or B)not saved. Those who are saved have a place in heaven, but are surely missing out on true fellowship with God. If they continue w/o repentance, He may choose to call them home. It's sad that they are teaching people false doctrine there, deceiving those who need Christ as their Lord.

[AnyDayNow]

If you believe in OSAS then how can you debate this website:
www.whosoever.net

Well you see, that is the issue right there. I can't debate someone else on whether they are saved or not. It is a heart issue between them and God. But I can debate them on the Salvation which God Has Wrought in my heart. Since I had to repent to be saved, I had to turn away from various bad habits (read sins). I haven't returned to them to PRACTICE them.

In Paul's disqualifying statement, which not only included homosexuals but also swindlers and others, he clearly states that it is those who continue to PRACTICE such sins who will be disqualified from the Kingdom. What is practising?

2. To do repeatedly in order to acquire proficiency (Websters II)

Jesus told some of those He converted to "go and sin no more". Is this what you see happening on that web site? Someone who is openly repentant, WANTING to not sin so as to please Jesus and follow His commands? I can't judge, but I can see an unrepentant attitude. It troubles me.

[BloodBought]

I think that website is full of lost and mislead people personally. The bible says many who say, "Lord, Lord" will not enter the kingdom. I think these people will qualify. They corrupt the word and condon sin unrepentantly.

This free seminar will discuss how being gay and being a Christian really are compatible.

My God what has this world come too.

I don't know about you but that website makes my blood boil. That's like me saying, "Being a (insert any sin here..drug abuser, child molester, alcoholic, serial killer) and being a Christian really are compatible.

:mad

[Aineo1]

I believe some of you have missed my point. If OSAS is a valid doctrine then what one does with their life after salvation is irrelevant. Another example I use is Mel White: SoulForce (http://www.soulforce.org/main/mwbio.shtml). Dr. White's credentials were impeccable before he "came out" as an openly gay "Christian". Is Mel still saved? The Biblical answer is no, he has fallen away from the truth and gone into full apostasy.

[mika22412]

so if Dr. White decides that he was wrong and realizes that he is living in sin and repents, does that mean he has been saved again? Saved for a second time?

[Aineo1]

so if Dr. White decides that he was wrong and realizes that he is living in sin and repents, does that mean he has been saved again? Saved for a second time?If Dr. White repents then his salvation is valid; however:Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame. NASIf you knew anything about Dr. White and Soulforce you would understand the truth of this passage from Hebrews. Dr. White is not going to repent, he has made that quit clear with his actions.

[Jiggy37]

The thing I don't understand about that Hebrews verse is that, from looking around, it seems to me that there are many people who grew up with a Christian influence and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, fell away later, but did return later.
Now, I don't doubt that many of these people were, in fact, not true converts the first time around, but what of those who were? The Hebrews verse, indicates that it should have been "impossible" to renew them again to repentance.
However, it may be my understanding that's at fault, so let me ask the obvious question: What does it mean when it specifies "those who have once been enlightened," "have tasted of the heavenly gift," and "have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come"?
Are those only alternate ways of saying "those who were once saved" (in which case the seeming contradictions around me remain in place), or is that something more (in which case the seeming contradictions may be rendered non-contradictory)?

[Aineo1]

The thing I don't understand about that Hebrews verse is that, from looking around, it seems to me that there are many people who grew up with a Christian influence and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, fell away later, but did return later.
Now, I don't doubt that many of these people were, in fact, not true converts the first time around, but what of those who were? The Hebrews verse, indicates that it should have been "impossible" to renew them again to repentance.
However, it may be my understanding that's at fault, so let me ask the obvious question: What does it mean when it specifies "those who have once been enlightened," "have tasted of the heavenly gift," and "have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come"?
Are those only alternate ways of saying "those who were once saved" (in which case the seeming contradictions around me remain in place), or is that something more (in which case the seeming contradictions may be rendered non-contradictory)?When you read this in full context the writer is clear that he is referring to those who made a commitment, followed the Lord, and then for whatever reasons fell away from the truth. Both Jesus and Paul teach this will happen in the "end times" or at "the end of the age".Matthew 24:3-14

3 And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" 4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. 5 "For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many. 6 "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. 9 "Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of My name. 10 "And at that time many will fall away and will deliver up one another and hate one another. 11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many. 12 "And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. 13 "But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved. 14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come. NAS

1 Timothy 4:1-5
4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods, which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer. NASThe obvious question is when are the "end times" or when did/does the "end of the age" commence?2 Peter 2:1-3
2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. NAS

1 John 4:1
4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. NASThe "end of the age" began before the death of John. The 2nd century church was dealing with Gnosticism and other heresies that used Jesus and His teachings as their foundation.

[BloodBought]

I disagree that repentance must come before salvation.

Luke 13:5 - ...except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.