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Bondservant
July 17th, 2004, 01:08 AM
It used to be about sin. The freedom we are to proclaim to the captives is freedom from sin. The ancients understood the ugly stain they could not wash out. Seekers wrestled with sin and fell upon God seeking forgiveness from it. The grace that promises to lead us home was offered freely to us when Christ paid our penalty, the penalty of sin.

It used to be about sin. Preachers railed against sin. They understood that conversion came only after people understood the depths of their own depravity. Those preachers brought people to the cross, the place where sins were laid down and forgiven. Those converts knew they were saved because that crushing load of sin was removed. They wept over the release from that oppressive taskmaster.

But in churches today, the message has been changed. It is no longer about sin; it is about what we can get from God. Christianity has become the religion of meeting felt needs. Need your car fixed? We Christians can help with that! No one to pal around with? Hey, let’s get a pickup game of basketball going! Can’t walk the walk? No sense feeling guilty about it!

Many seekers, especially in America, don’t want to hear about sin, so our preachers oblige them by not talking about it. “Too scary, too off-putting to people.” “That message doesn’t work anymore.” “You can’t get flies with vinegar.” So in the place of the message about the depths of sinfulness we all possess, many churches have adopted a message that says, “You are entitled to special treatment, and God is right there to give you anything you think you need.”

Last year, I heard a presentation advertising small groups within a church. This was a multimedia extravaganza that featured numerous real-life stories of people currently attending the church’s small groups. The clip ran almost five minutes, but when it was all said and done, the name of Jesus had never been mentioned. People talked glowingly about what they got from their small groups, but nothing was ever said about triumphing over sin, getting closer to Christ, understanding the Bible, or any of the traditional Christian issues. Instead, we all heard about going to baseball games with others in the group, having someone bring groceries over in a tough time, and the like.

It’s now all about what we can get. Because of this, few people ever talk about sin anymore. I wonder if seekers ever wrestle with their sinfulness. Considering the dearth of time we all claim today, perhaps others simply cannot devote much mental energy to thinking about their own sin since so much time is commanded in getting felt needs met.

The “new” churches that adhere to this self-centered paradigm wrap their evangelistic efforts around conducting felt need analyses or interpreting neighborhood demographic studies rather than working to show people the depths of their depravity and the person who can release that burden, Jesus. We are on the verge of losing the entire sin perspective as we abandon the very core of why Christ came in favor of making everyone happy, lest they find another, more accommodating church to attend.

Jesus said that if He be lifted up, He would draw all men to Him. Are we lifting Him up and showing Him as the Redeemer and the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world? Or have we reduced the Savior to little more than being a sanctified version of Santa, doling out whatever we ask for in the absent shadow of a missing cross?

Joy unspeakable comes from knowing that we will not have to pay the price for sin because Christ already has. In the midst of our endless desire to have our felt needs met, do we still remember this?

I've never really understood the fascination with Oprah's TV show. And yet, I find evangelical churches today to be transitioning into something that increasingly resembles the Oprah cult. Truth is subject to feeling. Empathy reigns - how deeply someone feels about someone else's pain is the principle measure of their spiritual depth. The Bible is just one source of wisdom. Anything that attempts to help us grow in religious knowledge is unquestionably assimilated. Reliance on psychological methods of dealing with reality is a given. Like John Lennon sang, "Whatever gets you through the night, it's alright...."
Francis Schaeffer warned that the evangelical church's fascination with philosophies outside of the ring of God's truth would eventually drive it into error. He particularly cites the wholesale incorporation of psychological theory as one of the harbingers of disaster. We are living that warning every Sunday across America.
It is a curious thing that the unction of the Holy Spirit seems to be yielding a flock of "three points and a conclusion" messages that are falling on largely deaf ears. Perhaps we are entering a second fulfillment of Amos 8:11 - "The days are coming," declares the Sovereign LORD , "when I will send a famine through the land- not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD ." Our sanctuaries are filled with costly, state-of-the-art sound systems, but there appears to be nothing worth hearing coming out of the speakers. When the Spirit of God departs the temple, we compensate by saying, "Wow! Look at all the fancy gold things in here!"

Whatever happened to sin?

Dan Edelen

lookinup2c
July 17th, 2004, 01:14 AM
:cry Sin is alive and well and in the house... :cry

sarahbeth
July 17th, 2004, 01:26 AM
Our sanctuaries are filled with costly, state-of-the-art sound systems, but there appears to be nothing worth hearing coming out of the speakers. When the Spirit of God departs the temple, we compensate by saying, "Wow! Look at all the fancy gold things in here!"

Boy, if that isn't today's church! :(:


Sarah

blessedone
July 17th, 2004, 01:37 AM
Well said, (or quoted), Bondservant.

I, too, live in Sacramento and it took me over 9 months to find a church that wasn't a social club, just another entertainment venue, church-lite, church of the motivational speaker, mega-church wannabe's, etc.

Bondservant
July 17th, 2004, 01:46 AM
Well said, (or quoted), Bondservant.

I, too, live in Sacramento and it took me over 9 months to find a church that wasn't a social club, just another entertainment venue, church-lite, church of the motivational speaker, mega-church wannabe's, etc.

Hey neighbor :): :wave nice to meet you !!!

seeker42
July 17th, 2004, 03:55 AM
Well said, (or quoted), Bondservant

Exactly :thumb

That was Great !! That was an article which is a much more accurate description of the state of the Church than what we often hear. it just goes to show that we need to keep our focus on Jesus Christ.

Seeker
:):

Kyrie Eleison
July 17th, 2004, 06:14 AM
Yes, and the constant push to build BIGGER churches without ever feeding the flock is all about making more impressive buildings to house yet more psycho-babble in style, and so as not to offend the self-help crowd, never mention sin. :(:

GloryBound
July 17th, 2004, 09:17 AM
That pretty much covers it.

imfree
July 17th, 2004, 11:13 AM
That was brilliant and true! Sad, but true. I can relate to this article. It took DH and I over 2 years to find the right fellowship where sin and repentance are boldly preached and Jesus Christ is truly the head of the church.

Rebecki
July 17th, 2004, 01:45 PM
This is so true. Many here know my thoughts on this, so I won't expound on them now. I have a link in my sig for my testimony in the purpose driven movement if anyone wants to read it.

Thanks Bondservant for posting that article. We need to keep this kind of information available for everyone to see!!

Bible Girl
July 17th, 2004, 09:36 PM
I was at work on Friday where about 6 of us were sitting and talking. One girl brought up this great speaker she had heard and how he really convicted her. And she was glad that he brought up the "let's not judge others" routine. And the very next person started in on how Oprah's show some time in the recent past was talking about this very thing. Blah, Blah, Blah.

The amazing thing is out of us 6 I was the only one who questioned what she said. The rest just shook their head in agreement.

I had to point out (of course) that sin is sin. And we need to call it that etc. Of course they all agreed with that too.

The Lord convicted me a long time ago to stop wathcing TV. Not paranoid its going to infect my mind stuff. Just that I needed to stop watching it as a regular thing. I am not saying "DEVIL TV" type stuff either. He just convicted me to stop watching it. ANd I KNEW it was not so much the blatant content, but the subtle stuff ( like harmless Oprah :rolleyes ) that was doing me in.

I rarely watch it anymore. I REALLY think it is affecting a lot of people. It is shaping the landscape.

For what its worth,
BG

4everHis
July 17th, 2004, 09:45 PM
I've pretty much stopped watching tv news, at least the local news. I ocassionally tune in to FOX to see what is going on in the world etc. I find that I'm much happier when I'm not "entertained" by TV.

Heard an interesting thing on the radio the other day. Apparently, many pediatricians are now saying that no child should be watching TV in the first two years of their lives. It prevents their brains from developing in the proper manner.
It probably also prevents we adults from flexing our grey matter as well.

Now, where is that remote!!

cindyw
July 17th, 2004, 11:54 PM
After reading this, I am even more thankful to be in the church our family is now attending. It is so NOT like the seeker sensitive church we used to attend for almost 5 years. It is a Church which preaches the truth about sin, lifts Jesus on high and goes to the Word of God to find solutions to the problems of this life-----------in a truly grace-filled agape way. There is a famine in the land and most of us have experienced it first hand unfortunately.

sandy111
July 18th, 2004, 01:07 AM
excellent bondservant that was so good.

I am keeping that for future reference!

thank you very much for posting that.

I can sure relate!
I guess if sin is outta mind its outta site for most folks.

and if you say anything, you are a outcast.

maybe we should have a outcast group.. :B:
I know I just don't belong in many places.

Singlesis
July 18th, 2004, 08:10 AM
and if you say anything, you are a outcast.

maybe we should have a outcast group..
I know I just don't belong in many places

Hmmm... seems I recall a group of 11 "outcasts" who turned the world upside down! :thumb
(12 counting Paul)

antitox
July 18th, 2004, 10:00 AM
Yes, and the constant push to build BIGGER churches without ever feeding the flock is all about making more impressive buildings to house yet more psycho-babble in style, and so as not to offend the self-help crowd, never mention sin. :(:

You really touched on something. It is a problem where churches/leaders strive to grow in numbers yet they are not feeding the flock. The last church I attended started to wane in ministry to the point that the pulpit no longer had God's touch on the message preached. The evidence of that was people started leaving the church. Then the staff started doing "damage control" to prevent people from leaving; taking all sorts of measures to keep people involved.
People just want the Lord, that's all. And man keeps trying to use every gimmick he can to make things happen - to get his big church. When God's presence is on a church, they won't need "damage control" or anything else to keep people around. When the Holy Spirit is there, wild horses can't drag anybody away.

Bondservant
July 18th, 2004, 05:35 PM
" I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be:
religion without the Holy Ghost,
Christianity without Christ,
forgiveness without repentance,
salvation without regeneration,
politics [government] without God,
and [the teaching of ] heaven without [the teaching of ] hell.
--William Booth....Founder of Salvation Army


A.W. Tozer said:
Our fathers believed in sin, the devil and hell and in God; righteousness and heaven.
Humans, our fathers held, had to choose sides--they could not be neutral.
For them it must be life or death, heaven or hell. And if they chose to come out on God's side they could expect open war with God's enemies. The fight would be real and deadly, and would last as long as life continued here below.

How different today…
People think of the world not as a battleground, but as a playground.
We are not here to fight; we are here to frolic.
We are not in a foreign land, WE ARE AT HOME.
This idea has now been accepted in practice by the vast majority of fundamental Christians. They might hedge around the question…but their conduct gives them away.

Carlosabc
July 19th, 2004, 10:56 PM
Bondservant- You are right on. Thanks for this.

twelvesmaster
July 20th, 2004, 04:22 PM
I usually find myself wanting to quote you. Thanks Bondservant.


:clap

Rebecki
July 20th, 2004, 09:19 PM
" I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be:
religion without the Holy Ghost,
Christianity without Christ,
forgiveness without repentance,
salvation without regeneration,
politics [government] without God,
and [the teaching of ] heaven without [the teaching of ] hell.
--William Booth....Founder of Salvation Army

It's sad that all of this has come to pass. :tsk

sandy111
July 20th, 2004, 09:59 PM
so true, and another thing that bugs me is
I'm hungry for the true word of God, and went I go looking for it,
and their not giving it, they say that we are church hopping,
not faithful ect. :yell

cant they see the sheep are starving?

HeIsEnough
July 20th, 2004, 10:15 PM
After reading this, I am even more thankful to be in the church our family is now attending.Me too. I go to an old school church.

To everyone else, keep searching, there are good ones around, well in the bible belt anyway.

hint: they are usually smaller, less wealthy :thumb