Definition of a TRUE Christian

[timmori]

In a secular forum, I was questioned about a statement I made regarding "True Christians". In response, I posted the following definition and am wondering if you all agree:

A true Christian is one who has come to the realization that they are a pathetic sinner with absolutely know ability to save themselves and the only way they can get right with God and get to heaven is to accept the FREE gift of salvation from God, which was paid for by the death and resurrection of our Savior Jesus Christ.

We have to repent and accept this gift.

We have to finally realize that all the religion, ritual, prayers, etc can not earn our way to heaven.

So many people call themselves Christians but have never truly repented and trusted Jesus for their salvation. Most people try, through religion, to earn their way to heaven...

So "repent" and put your trust in Jesus and Jesus only

I truly believe it is that simple,

Tim

[RonnieBee]

Mark 16:14-18 / NKJV
14Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and He rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen. 15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18they£ will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

However John 3:16 says:

John 3:16 / NKJV
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

This is why I believe there are two types of Christians:

1. Those who have believed to the point of repentance and water baptism, and are saved to eternal life.

2. Those who have believed to the point of receiving the Holy Spirit Gifts, in the baptism of fire. These are the ones whom the signs spoken of by Mark follow.

[seeker42]

I truly believe it is that simple

:thumb :thumb :thumb

Seeker

[Mindenite]

Nothing about loving God? Sure, it is implied but I always put love as the first thing. No one can earn one's way into Heaven, true, but I am not a Christian because I want to get rewarded, that is only an added bonus. Maybe it is just semantics but I have rarely (if ever after conversion) thought about my own inablitiy to do anything to get myself into Heaven simply because that is not my goal. My goal is to love God, server and worship Him, and leave the things in life that I cannot control to Him even though I may not and usually will not know why they are happening the way they are. It is ultimate faith that I strive for. But, as I said, this may be what you are saying only in a different way.

[RonnieBee]

Commandment #1 Mindenite


Matt 22:34-40 / NKJV
34But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’£ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’£ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

[Chronus]

2. Those who have believed to the point of receiving the Holy Spirit Gifts, in the baptism of fire. These are the ones whom the signs spoken of by Mark follow.
Gotta disagree with you here . . . unless I'm totally misunderstanding you.

The quote you took from Mark is not describing two categories of Christians. The signs follow those who believe, as described in verse 17. However, verse 16 says that those who do not believe will be condemned. This doesn't sound like the final destiny of a Christian . . . he's describing a non-Christian (non-believer).

[rekker]

This is why I believe there are two types of Christians:

1. Those who have believed to the point of repentance and water baptism, and are saved to eternal life.

2. Those who have believed to the point of receiving the Holy Spirit Gifts, in the baptism of fire. These are the ones whom the signs spoken of by Mark follow.

Then why does Paul point out to the Colossians that the gospel they have received is sufficient and complete, and there is nothing more they need to achieve spiritual fullness?

Col.2:9 " For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ who is the head over every power and authority."

Nowhere does Paul say that the gospel Epaphrus taught them was somehow incomplete, and that they needed to believe "yet more" in order to achieve a greater level of spiritual fulfillment. Rather, he continually reminds them that Christ is sufficient, that they know the full truth already, and that there is nothing more they need accomplish.

If there was this "second level" of spirituality that had yet to be attained, why does Paul tell the Colossians that they are already complete?

I'm imagining that they heard the same gospel that I heard. But I know many Spirit-filled people who would probably die from drinking poison, and who can not heal the sick.

This is a curious questoin, but for the time being I don't think there is any benefit to trying to divide Christians into these two camps.

[Christine]

This is why I believe there are two types of Christians:

1. Those who have believed to the point of repentance and water baptism, and are saved to eternal life.

2. Those who have believed to the point of receiving the Holy Spirit Gifts, in the baptism of fire. These are the ones whom the signs spoken of by Mark follow.Warning issued under the BetterChristian rule.

http://rr-bb.com/rules.php

No "I'm a Better Christian than You" games - Some folks seem to believe that they are the only true Christian who has ever lived and are thus bent on "fixing" all who cross their path. While we highly encourage discussion of various topics, we do draw the line at the abject condemnation of others over non-essential issues such as spiritual gifts, political affiliation, worship style and holiday observance. Discuss at will but keep the attitudes in check! This category also includes judgment calls by members that are above their level of responsibility and pay grade such as "Pin-the-tail-on-the-antichrist".

[LoriInFL]

Warning issued under the BetterChristian rule.

http://rr-bb.com/rules.php

No "I'm a Better Christian than You" games - Some folks seem to believe that they are the only true Christian who has ever lived and are thus bent on "fixing" all who cross their path. While we highly encourage discussion of various topics, we do draw the line at the abject condemnation of others over non-essential issues such as spiritual gifts, political affiliation, worship style and holiday observance. Discuss at will but keep the attitudes in check! This category also includes judgment calls by members that are above their level of responsibility and pay grade such as "Pin-the-tail-on-the-antichrist".

I like that!

Since God loves us all.. I can't see that one person would be more of a Christian than others. I DO know people who have led decent lives (as far as I can see). I don't begrudge them that, as long as they don't begrudge me my salvation. Even if they did, I'd find the truth somewhere... the basic truth that salvation is a gift. Dealing with our own shortcomings is personal between the believer and God... it's not for any of us to judge. LOL I know.. some may say I say this because I'm a rotten person.. FINE.. I'm a rotten person.. and THANK YOU JESUS for paying that debt for me.... I could have never done it on my own. :wave

[RonnieBee]

Warning issued under the BetterChristian rule.

http://rr-bb.com/rules.php

No "I'm a Better Christian than You" games - Some folks seem to believe that they are the only true Christian who has ever lived and are thus bent on "fixing" all who cross their path. While we highly encourage discussion of various topics, we do draw the line at the abject condemnation of others over non-essential issues such as spiritual gifts, political affiliation, worship style and holiday observance. Discuss at will but keep the attitudes in check! This category also includes judgment calls by members that are above their level of responsibility and pay grade such as "Pin-the-tail-on-the-antichrist".

In no way do I think I'm a better Christian than anyone else, probably less better than most. Maybe I allowed myself to be misunderstood, what I was trying to say is simply that some Christians do not all enjoy the benefits of the heavenly gifts, and I desire, like Paul said, that all would desire the better gifts.

1 Corin 12:27-31 / NKJV
27Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31But earnestly desire the £best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way.

[Christine]

Hi RonnieBee,

While I understand what you are saying about people exercising spiritual gifts, this is what I am taking issue with:
This is why I believe there are two types of Christians: Please don't segregate Christians into groups based on their gifts. Talk about fruit, talk about lukewarmness, talk about stewardship -- but scripture says that diverse gifts are given to ALL believers, reference 1 Corinthians 12, specifically verse 7.

:thumb

[RonnieBee]

Hi RonnieBee,

While I understand what you are saying about people exercising spiritual gifts, this is what I am taking issue with:
Please don't segregate Christians into groups based on their gifts. Talk about fruit, talk about lukewarmness, talk about stewardship -- but scripture says that diverse gifts are given to ALL believers, reference 1 Corinthians 12, specifically verse 7.

:thumb

Got it. :thumb

[MikeJ]

Those who have believed to the point of receiving the Holy Spirit Gifts, in the baptism of fire. These are the ones whom the signs spoken of by Mark follow.

I know as 100% fact that signs and wonders of God may be experienced by Believers long (many years) before they are ever baptized by fire. And, I'm not referring to the counterfeit miracles that are so common in certain nominal Christian circles either, such as WoF, etc. Also, a person may operate in at least one gift (of the Holy Spirit's choosing) immediately after being born-again.

[RonnieBee]

Matt 13:44 / NKJV
44“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field, which a man found and hid; and for joy over it he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.

Note, in this instance, the man hid the treasure, and went a bought the field. Why did he buy the field, instead of just keeping the treasure? I think it was because he knew there may be more treasure in the field than just the one he found.
This is how I felt when I received the baptism of fire, Like I had found new treasure, in addition to what I already had.
My desire is to create a hunger and thirst in you for this hidden treasure of truth, because I believe what I have found is so valuable that I want to share it with others. However, Every person must go on their own treasure hunt, and work the field to find their own treasure; then they will cherish and value it more highly than if it were merely handed to them on a silver platter. All I can do is point you to the field. You must dig and hunt, and decide for yourself what to keep and call treasure.
Ronnie Bee