A church that is going/probably will Die

[Warrior Prophet]

Dear All,
I'm in a church that's not growing and hasn't grown in the past 5 years. We haven't had but a handful of converts in that whole time period. There is strong preaching, good Bible studay and excellent worship (for the talent pool that's there) but still we aren't showing any growth. This is kind of a hard question... at what point do you say 'We aren't doing God's work here, we should close up shop?' Oh, also to mention we are losing money... if it wasn't for a daycare that is renting the church we wouldn't be paying the bills. When do you decide that it's best to disband a church or do you pray for revival, and what if God doesn't answer those prayers?

In His Service,
Mark Murphy

[Catwoman]

I don't have any words of wisdom but I belonged to a very small church..probably less than 40 people and I loved it.

Anyway it disbanded because of an internal rift between elders; most of the congregation went one way and left just a few and not enough to keep the doors open or pay the bills. There was even threats of a lawsuit and it got very ugly.

It broke my heart because it was the church for me and I loved it.

I would try to do anything you can think of to keep your church open and functioning.

The alternative is such a loss.

[audi72]

Mark,

Does your church have a day set aside to hand out tracts? Do you have a bus ministry? If not, maybe you could talk to your pastor about starting a new ministry, at least to hand out tracts and go soul winning.

YSIC,
Audra

[seeker42]

I just want to suggest a note of caution in evaluating that the church is not growing...Is the strong preaching truly good, or is it simply emotionally passionate ? Is the result of the Bible study and the Preaching...that individual members love the Lord more and are actively seeking to be closer to Him ?

Has the preaching & leadership helped the church members to internally solidify who they are in Christ, and understanding how to live the Christian walk, while EXPECTING to be a minority, expecting to be opposed, and still expecting God to work in the lives of the members ? Has this church developed or set aside a regular time of prayer for spiritual warfare (not the fake stuff) concerning the church and also set aside time to pray for the spiritual growth of those who attend the church ?

Are there active projects (prayer/tracts/advertisement/whatever) that are designed to introduce the pastor or the church to the community ?

IF the church has been doing those things, that would be a great church to be in...the question becomes at what point is consideration given ...to trading “truth” for “size” ? The main purpose of a church is to have its members increase in their spiritual knowledge, in their depth of relationship with the Lord, and in their own ability to communicate the Love of Christ to others. If a church is doing these things, those are signs of success. Numerical growth is not the historic benchmark for a church, and in these days and times, the fact that a church is small ...may speak more to its own commitment to truth, and refusal to compromise the Gospel ...If that is the case, there would be little point in leaving...that pastor needs encouragement, support and guidance...Most churches either have or will be turning apostate...so if your church is not in that category yet, maybe that is something to thank the Lord for.

Most churches that teach the truth are struggling financially, with the exception of the few who have one or two rich sponsors. Truth is not popular, and it is increasingly hard to find a church where church goers will actively support it, if they are Convicted during the service. Most churche have substituted entertainment for Godliness in anycase.

If anything, the fact that it is a smaller church, may help restrain other forces that otherwise might be pushing it in
A populist direction (such as the very misguided “purpose-driven” confused life).

What too many people think, is that the Lord operates on the rules of a corporation. That is just not the case. The point of the Christian life is to have Christians deepen their spiritual walk by TRUSTING God. How do pastors really ever come to trust God for the needs of the church, if they never have any difficulties, if they never have any financial issues ? Looking at the life of Paul and the Apostles, their life, including their financial lives, were Filled with Constant uncertainty. It seems that most modern churches have worked so hard to avoid the financial struggle
(with the exception of a new Church building which is usually an act of foolish spending) – that they have succeeded at tearing out – almost every avenue of risk in the Church where the Holy Spirit might actually have a chance to operate...


Seeker

:):

[Michele93]

Really brief...what is the attitude of the congregation? Is it one of 'scarcity', that attitude of we don't have the money, people, ect? Or one of hope for a future? I believe the answers to those questions are important. If people are going around saying we don't have, we can't, we might close then they are telling themselves there is no hope, they are convincing themselves and others they are defeated. Just my thoughts.

Michele

[blessanna]

You should always pray that is where revival begins. Does your church pray as a congregation? You need to hear from God in how He wants to use you in your community and to reach out to the lost. Not every church has the same mission.

But I agree with the earlier poster spiritual growth is far more important than church growth numbers. The stagnant of #'s could be that the community is not experiencing a population increase or it is a church saturated area.

Also, we need to take on the attitude that we are not to abandon the body we need to support one another. If the body is doing the work of the Kingdom then God will take care of the body's finances. Remember the just walk by faith and not by sight.

[MrsG0529]

Mark,

I just posted a question about a situation at our church as well.

When my pastor preached his first sermon at our church, there were 12 people in attendance. This was the first weekend of October, 2002. The 12 people included our pastor, his wife, and their 3 children. The church was DEAD.

The people of the congregation prayed...and prayed hard. We were the first family to begin attending there in Feb 2003. Pastor said when he saw us walk through the door, he wanted to tie us to the pew to keep us there. :lol

Our attendance last week was 65 people. At our Easter service we had 76 people in attendance. God has been sending people to our church right and left. Your congregation needs to get together and pray together for church growth. If your congregation is not willing to do that, then I would seriously consider finding another church.

[ChopinFan]

I think you all have been giving some valuable advice. Let me give you my advice as someone who can relate firsthand to this from a pastor's perspective.

Remember that results are bound up in the Sovereign grace of God. We plant seeds, we pray, we water the seeds, but God gives the increase. We must never measure our vitality scrictly by our numbers. The Church at Smyrna was poor in their own eyes, but Jesus said they were rich. Conversely, the church at Laodicea thought they were rich, but Jesus said they were "miserable, poor, blind, and naked.."

I think there's a good book written about church growth and church size and the title is something like "once size DOESN"T fit all." Basically the book details how God calls different churches to different missions, and the phases and life-cycles of a church. Some churches are in what I deem "difficult" areas. Either very rural communities, or communities that are already saturated with churches on every corner. Churches in these areas may have a more difficult time experiencing growth.

Without really knowing too much about your particular church, I couldn't comment specifically. But if what you say is true in that there is strong biblical preaching, and sincere worship of God, then by all means don't throw in the towel. Blessanna is right- you guys need to get together and pray...pray...pray. You would be amazed what God will do, when people gather together and earnestly pray for the advancement of the kingdom of God.

You may never have a mega-church (in actuality, there are only few real "mega-churches" in the US anyway compared to the vast majority of churches out there), but be the church that God has called you to be!
The church that I pastor now is one that we planted with literally just me and my family to start with. I am amazed at what God has done in such a short amount of time. If your pastor's motives are sincere, and he really wants to see God move in his church, I guarantee you, that if he sets himself to seek the face of God-God will give him a vision for the church. The scripture says "where there is no vision, the people perish.." (Prov 29:18). God will also show you guys if there are things you are doing that are hindering growth of the church.

Hope this is helpful!

[Warrior Prophet]

Dear All,
Thanks for your answers. Now just to answer a few questions... hopefully. :laugh First off... I know the measure of a churches sucess is not physical numbers but spiritual numbers. Our church is low in both. There's just the sense that... they don't want to grow spiritually and just go to church. Which is also the reason for our financial woes, as the congregation gets smaller the people who give keeps getting smaller and smaller. If we don't have a spiritual revival in the near future... I do fear we'll have to close our doors.

In His Service,
Mark Murphy

[Warrior Prophet]

P.S. We have tried to do evangelism Saturdays... and then no one shows up. No matter how much we ask for helping hands, it seems just a few come out to help. Right now the situation is very saddening.

[cameron222]

How much prayer has been given to this situation? Some churches do stagnate and die, and others seem to add members almost every Sunday.

Every institution has a life cycle and maybe its time for your church to succumb and the faithful members start a new congregation.

Take heart. God is within us and not inside a building. You can attend services anywhere......but it is sad to see your congregation wither on the vine.

[Warrior Prophet]

Well, I'm sure the leadership has been praying about growth and been asking God what we should do. The thing is, and not to sound like we're doubting God, we haven't had an answer. So now it's just a very confusing time.

[Chronus]

There is strong preaching, good Bible studay and excellent worship
This may be why you have a small congregation. ;):

Good advice and observations in this thread.

Seeker42 - Every time I see your "name" I see "Seeker8" because of that crazy 8 ball avatar. :):

[architectlink]

If it is a good church, DO NOT JUDGE IT BY THE MEMBERSHIP...

We have invited tons of people to join us, but because we are not a country club church, most people go elsewhere for a great building.

Christ is in the spirit, not in the building. Size does not matter. Christ only had 12 apostles.

[toddlemom]

Our church has had a lot of ups and downs ... but one thing we are missing now (I could be wrong, this could be going on and I don't know about it) a couple or three very, very old ladies took it on themselves to pray for the church. (They looked frail to us but I think they were mighty warriors in God's eyes :): )Whenever they felt the need. So to accomodate them and others the church was never locked. They have passed away and I wonder who is picking up where they left off. I mean, I try to pray for the church but I am too scatter-brained to really focus on it. Not like those old saints!

Could be the same in your church, WP ... I dunno ... could be.

[GloryBound]

I've been in that same situation before, in fact, I checked your location to make sure it wasn't that same church!!!!! The day care paid the bills.

I've moved several times in my life, so I've been to many churches. Certain things seem to go along with a vibrant growing church with regular converts. One thing is a strong missions giving program, or a big outreach ministry of some type. I'm not talking about the big churches with lots of money. Our church is small and the people in general are not rich by any means. But missions giving is phenominal. And people are getting saved, the church is growing, expensive repair work is being done, old equipment replaced, and we have a new youth pastor. The money is just there.

One other interesting thing, the special speakers that most fascinate the church are the missionaries who work in extremely difficult areas, and report the awesome things God is doing, and the hardships they are going through. The struggling churches seemed to enjoy the motivational speakers more.

But churches I've attended which were just like yours were the type that insisted there was no money for missions or outreach. And there were problems in leadership also. Sometimes hidden sin, but most of the time the guys in charge didn't want anyone stealing their thunder, so capable people with a call to work in the church tended to look elsewhere for a way to fulfill that call.

Also, lots of organized prayer is really necessary. My church had a lot of spiritual warfare the years before I attended and seemed to be losing a lot of the battles. In fact, when I started going there the Lord revealed to me that the battle continued and I was to help pray. And I found out that the people involved in intercession weren't the people I expected to be.

Rambling thoughts, but I hope at least something is helpful in figuring out what is the problem.