Athiest friend. How would you handle this?

[scottruff]

I seldom bring up religion at work. The athiest guy (raised Roman Catholic) across the aisle sometimes does but only to go a serious negative rant. Now, he's a pretty sharp guy. I perceive that what he is actually doing is ranting against false teachings imparted to him when he was young.

Let's stop right here and make it clear that I am NOT picking on Catholics. Plenty of Protestants teach some of the same stuff.

There's the usual 'Hell as a barbaric torture chamber' arguement and also chafing at the rules as in 'nobody is good enough, you're all going to Hell unless you do all sorts of good deeds and then only if you're lucky.' Actually the nobody is good enough part is true. The rest is bogus.

I have attempted to answer these objections but I get the fingers in the ears, know what I mean? So I'm thinking maybe next time I should take a somewhat hostile approach saying, "(Insert name.) Just because you were taught lies in the past doesn't mean you should take it out on me." I think the "taught lies" bit might arouse his curiosity enough to ask questions.

Am I off here?

[frisian1970]

His/her paradigm may be skewed by lies/interpretations that counter what he cares to believe. Does this person believe that truth lies within mans interpretation and deeds? Seems perhaps his "god" was a religion.

[Green Darner]

Next time he starts hand him a copy of "The Case for Christianity" by Lee Strobel. Many of the objections people have against Christianity are covered in his book. Mr. Strobel was once a skeptic himself until his wife became a Christian and he set out to investigate the evidence to prove her wrong. Well, after interviewing many people in various technical fields he ended up convincing himself and became a Christian also. His journey from skeptic to Christian can be read in his book "The Case for Christ". He also has a new book out called "The Case for a Creator" that I'm reading right now. So far it's :thumb.

Maybe he would be willing to read instead of listening?

[HeIsEnough]

I seldom bring up religion at work. The athiest guy (raised Roman Catholic) across the aisle sometimes does but only to go a serious negative rant. Now, he's a pretty sharp guy. I perceive that what he is actually doing is ranting against false teachings imparted to him when he was young.

Let's stop right here and make it clear that I am NOT picking on Catholics. Plenty of Protestants teach some of the same stuff.

There's the usual 'Hell as a barbaric torture chamber' arguement and also chafing at the rules as in 'nobody is good enough, you're all going to Hell unless you do all sorts of good deeds and then only if you're lucky.' Actually the nobody is good enough part is true. The rest is bogus.

I have attempted to answer these objections but I get the fingers in the ears, know what I mean? So I'm thinking maybe next time I should take a somewhat hostile approach saying, "(Insert name.) Just because you were taught lies in the past doesn't mean you should take it out on me." I think the "taught lies" bit might arouse his curiosity enough to ask questions.

Am I off here?
You should not feel baited to fall into his trap. Pray the Lord give you the words to say the next time he opens his mouth. If it were me, it would probably be turned back on him, which is where the focus should be anyway. Does that make sense?

[Menno]

The Lord tells us to not meditate or think on what we shall say but open ourselves up to the Holy Spirit and He will speak through us.

[slyguy]

just a small suggestion, but i think under no circumstance should you lose your temper, or perhaps even raise your voice. maybe i just have anger management problems, but i've found that when i give in to anger the debate quickly boils down to a shouting match and no profit will come of it.

ybic
james

[Ciscokid]

Also, your actions will have more of an impact than your words.

[scottruff]

Usually our exchanges go like this. He brings the subject up. I get yelled at without having said anything. I respond, "Wha, wha, wha, uh? " That's not working too well.

[allynnegirl]

Usually our exchanges go like this. He brings the subject up. I get yelled at without having said anything. I respond, "Wha, wha, wha, uh? " That's not working too well.

Boy does that sound familiar! :freaked

[RobinB]

There's the usual 'Hell as a barbaric torture chamber' arguement and also chafing at the rules as in 'nobody is good enough, you're all going to Hell unless you do all sorts of good deeds and then only if you're lucky.' Actually the nobody is good enough part is true. The rest is bogus. Am I off here?


I was raised Catholic and can see why he is frustrated. The suggestion to give him Strubel's book was a good one. Or a copy of one of the tracts from the Living Waters site (such as "Are you a good person?") might clear things up for him, put him in the place to be more receptive. Or, ask him if he likes to read action/thrillers, then give him a copy of "Left Behind."

[Word Woman]

Hi! Actually I'm an atheist. I was just reading "Left Behind". I'm enjoying the book, and so I thought I'd come onto a rapture-oriented site and chat. Hello! How are you all? I'm reading the book as fiction. I know that's not OK here. It's really surprising to me to hear that a formerly Catholic man who no longer believes is so vitriolic about religion. I've been bothered many times by Christians trying to proseletize me. (How do you spell "proseletize"?) I never thought that Christians are sometimes targeted by non-Christians! Wow! Can't we just get along? I wonder what his issue is. Maybe he feels better about himself if he can humiliate someone else? I'm not sure if he isn't hiding what he's really after by using religion as a cover? His attacks may really be more about power and low self-esteem than religion... That could just be an easy way to get at you. Well... really though, it IS religion that he goes on about, so maybe it really is religion? Gosh, I wish I could see him attack you! I'm good at figuring people out and reasoning with them until they change their behavior for the better. He definitely is behaving badly and I just wish I could have at him! Hang in there, poor baby! I'm sorry to hear that he's making you suffer this way. (I'm calling myself "Word Woman" on this site because my normal screen name would probably not be acceptable here. Don't ask!)

[scottruff]

Yikes! The guy had a stroke! Evidently it wasn't too bad since he could return to work after being out only 7 days. Still he must submit to more tests to find out how it happened. This is a revolting development. Utter amazement on my part. A near miss and still no 'God talk.'

[lookinup2c]

Yikes! The guy had a stroke! Evidently it wasn't too bad since he could return to work after being out only 7 days. Still he must submit to more tests to find out how it happened. This is a revolting development. Utter amazement on my part. A near miss and still no 'God talk.'




Wondering if he spent some of his "almost" last moments on earth thinking about what "almost" was coming. Maybe that could be the way you find a gentle ground to talk to him.... :):

[Word Woman]

Wow! That IS different! (I'm that pesky athiest.) I haven't figured out how to have other people's quotes appear before my comments, but I agree with the what the person before me just said. I've been thinking about this and probably someone who is so fascinated by religion, even though only to debunk it, is probably someone who can be converted. He seems to have a religious bent. And now that he's just had to face his own mortality, he's probably more reachable than he was before. If he won't convert now you can at least maybe nudge him in God's direction. But wow! He's just had a stroke! Now he's probably afraid and needs support! At this point, you're best move is to figure that you were placed with this guy for a reason and that God will lead you.

[scottruff]

Nah, You aren't so pesky. I think you can find some good conversation here being as polite as you are. BTW, let me be the first. Welcome!

that God will lead you.

I sure hope so. Right now I'm clueless.

[Word Woman]

Thank you so much, scottruff, for welcoming me. It took me a lot of courage to write on this site; I didn't know how I'd be received. There's a lot of very reasonable thinking that people are expressing here (plus a few things I think are a bit kooky). I was favorably impressed with the comments on same sex marriages; a lot of people were concerned with the rights of gays, which I thought was a very Christian view of the topic. But like them, I do wonder about the appropriatness of gays raising children. But I should save these thoughts for the thread on gay marriages. OK, about your athiestic co-worker. If he's still beligerant in spite of his recent stroke, I would suggest saying things to him like, "Why are you attacking me? I was just minding my own business and here you are attacking me. I don't deserve to be treated this way. You're causing me pain. Please stop attacking me. Treat me well. I want you to stop attacking me." Of course all of this has to be said in non-accusatory, friendly tone, and over and over. It's OK to get passionate, but really you have to avoid accusing anger. I don't know how these conversations between the two of you go exactly, maybe you can come up with other things to say, but it probably would be good to dwell upon his behavior and how it affects you. If you can "tame" him, that is get him to treat you with respect and to trust you, (and changes like this only happen over time), he MIGHT become open to friendly talks about God. But if he isn't beligerant anymore due to the stroke, if his behvior really has markedly changed, then I have no suggestions. I've had no experience with people who have been near to death; I don't know anything about their psychology.

[HeIsEnough]

Thank you so much, scottruff, for welcoming me. It took me a lot of courage to write on this site; I didn't know how I'd be received.
Welcome. All are welcome, who operate by the rules, consult your nearest admin for those. :heh

I am glad you had the courage to post.

[Word Woman]

Thank you HeIsEnough for your welcome! You guys are very friendly! scottruff, I keep thinking about that man who has been attacking you about your religious beliefs, trying to think how to help... All these comments may be totally off the point, but now it's occurred to me that if you say, "Why are you attacking me?", he's of course going to answer, "I'm not attacking you!" You should ignore that and say something like, "I was just sitting here minding my own business and you came up and started attacking me." He'll probably say, "(Some other denial.)" You say, "I don't deserve this treatment." Etc. Try not to engage him about the truth or falseness of his claims, although you may have to if he's really persistent!!! And there's so many surprises that can happen in this type of encounter! Actually, I hate this kind of interaction with people; it's very unpleasant. You have to think quick on your feet. It's so stressful. You will probably feel threatened or frightened. But it CAN be handled. There's a book that I've found helpful for this sort of thing: "Coping With Difficult People" by Robert M. Bramson, Ph.D. If it's not still in print, you can probably get it through an interlibrary loan. Maybe God's plan for you at this point is just to learn to have compassion for this man in spite of how he treats you. "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." Or maybe it's to learn that you can handle this type of agressive personality, that you can be a peacemaker, a calmer of the waters. Or maybe you can actually lead him to God. Remember, God won't ask more of you than you can deliver, so just trust and see what develops!

[scottruff]

Please don't get the wrong impression. Most of the time we get along very well. The outbursts are a once in a while thing. Usually they are triggered by a news story on the TV and then usually when it's a story of violence or bigotry perpetrated by a religious group, not necessarily a (so called) Christian group. "All this on account of (expletive deleted) religion." It goes from there.

In a sense I agree with him but I never get the chance to say so being painted with the same brush as I am.

[Word Woman]

Yeah, I was wondering if I had the wrong impression... Now I'm picturing that he just has things on his chest about religion that he wants to talk about; he's put in quite a bit of thought on it, and now he's confirmed in an atheistic position (and maybe a just a little bit belligerant about it). Of course everybody tries to answer questions about God and spirituality. Are you requesting coaching about how to engage in a battle of wits with this man over your respective beliefs? That's what I'm picturing at this point. I really am straining my brain over how to convince an atheist to not to be an atheist, being one myself. Well, we aims to please... I'm thinking... I'm thinking... I'm still thinking... OK, these are things that would affect me. What if you stop talking with him about beliefs and instead tell him what your religion means to you - how it makes you feel? Maybe things like: Christ is your friend; He's always there; you can talk to Him. He understands and forgives. You can count on His guidance when you need help. You feel secure and loved. Things like that. (Probably DON'T say, I'm saved and you're not! That puts people off. It's seen as presumptuous and insulting. Seriously, you have to be able to see the other person's viewpoint at least a little to talk to them. I have somewhat of a grip on yours.) OK, but maybe he won't even consider Christ. Does he have any spiritual feelings? Any impressions that things happen for a purpose, or any doubts that science explains everything? Maybe you can get those conversations on a different track that will get through the chinks in his armour...

[Word Woman]

Well, I'm surprised to say that writing on this site has changed me a little bit. I didn't expect that at all. Always before I've laughed derisively when someone mentioned "Born Again Christians". (Actually, I'm not sure if you consider yourselves "born again"... Oh, well, whatever.) Anyway, now I see you as having great dignity. And your path to God is valid. I like you guys. ("But", you may ask, "how can you possibly say all this stuff if you're an atheist?!?" Believe me, it's possible to both not believe in spiritual things and believe at the same time.) I think I've gotten what I needed from this site. I might not post again. I think now I'll look up a childhood friend of mine who became a Born Again Christian. She became such a rabid believer that we lost touch. I wonder what she's up to...

[scottruff]

Well, OK. Drop by from time to time.

[HeIsEnough]

Drop by from time to time.Yes, I agree. :):

p.s, yes, born again.

[Ponderin]

I might not post again.

Don't go runnin off so fast Word Woman.

I like your name!

Don't ask

Sgirls honor! I promise I will not ask.


However, words can be great! for instance i think vitriolic is a very neat discriptive word. I read it first on a liberal news religion forum and thought it was neat!

A poster popped in noting a lot of vitriolic posters there many moons ago . . . I had to look it up as I recall. I learn alot of words reading the internet . . . I have distroyed to perfectly good encycolpedias . . . Kooky me :heh

seriously, do pop in when you can, k?

[Word Woman]

So, Ponderin, you're a lady. That really interests me. Are there any threads of "girl talk" on this site?

[Ponderin]

So, Ponderin, you're a lady. That really interests me. Are there any threads of "girl talk" on this site?


Hi again, Word Woman. you are correct, I am a lady. However, I don't do a lot of girl talkin here. I mostly read and ponder, hence my monicker :lol

But you will find there is a womens forum down below. Lots of girl talk too :nod