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KrispyKritter
February 12th, 2004, 08:42 AM
The following was written by the late Keith Green... and more adequately expresses my thoughts on this topic that at times on this board I've tried to say...

The Necessity of Holiness to Please God.

Hebrews says without holiness "no one shall see the Lord." (12:14) It is true that Jesus commands us to be perfect. (Matt. 5:48) It is also true that you most likely have never met a perfect person, nor do you probably ever expect to be perfect yourself. Nevertheless, we still have those uncomfortable words of the Lord, "Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect"!

Now, because of our dilemma in finding ourselves to be such numskulls, and seeing the demands of Jesus, we have invented some pretty interesting and caraaazzeey doctrines. Some Christians have said, "Well, when God looks at us, He doesn't really see us anymore, He sees Jesus instead. And when there's ever sin in our hearts, if God should happen to look at the wrong moment, He'll see a smiling face of Jesus there, instead of seeing our sin. So God sees me as holy - even though I'm not! But...I really am...er, well, you know what I mean!" (I don't happen to believe that God is that easily fooled, not even by Christians.)

Another stranger-than-truth doctrine is that blessed refuge of backsliders called "the carnal Christian." In this example of pretzel-logic, we are led to believe that any "believer" who isn't really "walking with the Lord" at the present time, and is indulging in the things of the world and the lusts of the flesh, can still be considered a "Christian," but not a Christian of the 1st class, no, a Christian of the 2nd class... a "carnal Christian." Here we have a case of the "believer" who doesn't believe. Oh, he still "believes" that God is God, and that there is a heaven and hell, and so on (but don't forget, the devil believes all these things too!-James 2:19). He knows all the right things to say to convince granny, the pastor, and his Christian friends that he's still hanging in there. He even sort of believes it himself. Seems he's got everybody fooled - everybody that is, except God! The Bible is clear that "If we say we' have fellowship with Him, and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. " (I John 1:6)

Today, possibly the greatest insult to the Gospel has been the almost total neglect of the preaching of holiness for the Christian. Jesus doesn't want to make believe that we're holy, He wants to impart His holiness to us by the Holy Spirit. But because people are not being driven to the cross, convicted by His Law to repentance and real rebirth, then we have to spend hours in our seminaries trying to find suitable, complicated ways to explain away the obvious meanings of Scripture.

To all this you might be saying, "But what about all those people getting saved by the efforts of good men and ministries out there? They're not preaching the way you say they should, and they still have converts!" (Krispy inserts – I wish I had a nickel for everytime someone said that on this website!) Well, the immediate answer to that question is, "The people are not getting saved because of their messages, they're getting saved in spite of them." But unfortunately, many of the people who make "decisions for Christ" through large evangelistic crusades, do not even attend church regularly in the years that follow. (And as you probably well know, "attending church regularly" does not guarantee that one is a true believer.) But let's take a closer look at what kind of "converts" today's gospel usually produces.

What's Specifically Wrong With Our Modern Gospel?
It's Me-Centered Instead of Christ-Centered. First and foremost, it is the gospel that appeals to the selfish. Instead of honoring God, it places the sinner at the center of God's love and plan. But the Bible places Jesus at the center of God's plan, not the sinner.

One of the most well-known phrases of modern evangelism is "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life!" But the sober, biblical truth that needs to be presented to the sinner's mind is "You have made yourself an enemy of God, and in your present state of rebellion there is absolutely no hope for you." In fact, God's "plan" for the sinner at this point in his life is to separate him from His presence forever, in hell. However unpopular or unlovely that may sound, it is the only truth and reality about anyone who is an enemy of God through sin.

The whole line of reasoning in our modern gospel continues on and on in this mistaken way. "Sin has separated you from God, 'and His wonderful plan for your life.' Jesus came and died on the cross, so that you may experience 'His wonderful plan for your life.' You must accept Jesus now, so that you will not miss out on 'His wonderful plan for your life!'" You, you, you, you!!! It's all for YOU! I'm not sorry to say this, but Jesus did it all in obedience, for His Father's glory. (Phil. 2:8-12) Of course, it infinitely benefits those who love, serve, and honor Him, but that was a secondary consideration, not the primary one. (Please read Ezek. 36:22-32.) If people come to Jesus mainly to get a blessing, or only to get forgiveness, they will ultimately be disappointed. But if they come to give Him their lives in honor and worship, then they will truly have forgiveness and joy - more than they could ever imagine! (I Cor. 2:9)

It's Shallow, Cheap, and Offered as a "Bargain." Our gospel reduces the good news to a "come and get it while you can" sale. We make every effort to take all the bones out - everything that might offend someone, might make them hesitate or put off their decision. Jesus didn't do this. He never lowered the requirements for anyone. One had to be completely sincere, totally humbled, having counted the cost, willing to leave everything, family and property, "count all things loss" so that they might "gain Christ." (Phil 3:7-8) When that same rich young ruler "went away sad, for he had many possessions" (Matt. 19:22), Jesus didn't go running after him shouting, "Hey, wait a minute! Let's talk this thing over, it isn't as bad as it might sound. Maybe I was a little too harsh!"

Maybe we're so eager to "see the converts," to publish "how many got saved at our last concert" in the bulletins to our supporters, that we'll do anything to rush someone into a "decision" before he's had a chance to really make one. The problem is, if you have to rush him into it, he probably will change his mind later anyway. For as a friend of mine says, "If somebody can talk them into it, somebody can talk them out of it!" (I Cor. 1:17)

Salvation is Shown as a Barter or Trade, Instead of the Result of Obedience by Faith. We offer forgiveness of sin like Monty Hall on "Let's Make a Deal." I've even heard, "You give Jesus your sin, and He'll give you salvation in return!" No one in the Bible ever thought so low of the grace of God to talk about the gift of eternal life like it was for trade. It is a gift! You can't earn it, or buy it, or give anything in return for it. How it must offend the Holy Spirit to hear people talk of His Jesus so. (Acts 8:18-23)

It Produces Selfish, "Blessed," and Feelings-Oriented "Converts."
Anyone who is made to believe he becomes a Christian under such preaching will seldom bring forth the true fruits of a real convert. He will remain just as selfish as he always was, only now his selfishness will take on a religious form. If he wants something for himself, he will say he "has a burden" for something, or he will say, "It is the desire of my heart," or some other religious-sounding phrase like that. He will pray selfishly, desiring blessings for himself, and even if he does pray for others, it usually will be for selfish reasons. After all, when he "accepted the Lord," he was told how much Jesus wanted to bless him and how much God had stored up for his account, and how the Bible was like "a checkbook full of promises, just waiting to be cashed!"

Such a person always seeks to "feel" good about himself, his own church, his own pastor, etc. His whole world is built on feeling blessed. He was never shown how he was created to bless God... God was not created to bless him. (Psalm 149:4; Phil. 2:13)

As you can see, the "converts" described above are not like those pictured in the book of Acts, when the Church was new and the fire was hot. Take a look at Acts 2:41-47 and 4:31-35, and you will see the tender spirit of love, and the mighty spirit of power that prevailed among the brethren in those early days. I believe that one of the great reasons that "everyone kept feeling a sense of awe" (Acts 2:43), was because "they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to prayer. "(vs. 42) I believe that Peter and the others made every effort to convey the whole message of the Gospel when they preached and taught, and that is why the Spirit of God could anoint and bless the new converts so powerfully- God always anoints the truth! (Isaiah 55:11)

Patty T
February 12th, 2004, 09:49 AM
Wow. I would like to have known this man when he was alive.

There are some very powerful truths. I want to be open to anything God wants to say to me. We never know how or when or who He will use.

Thank you Krispy.

KrispyKritter
February 12th, 2004, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Patty T
Wow. I would like to have known this man when he was alive.

There are some very powerful truths. I want to be open to anything God wants to say to me. We never know how or when or who He will use.

Thank you Krispy.

If you like these writings, Patty... you should hear his music. You can buy CD's at www.keithgreen.com

Asleep In The Light
by Keith Green

Do you see, do you see
All the people sinking down
Don't you care, don't you care
Are you gonna let them drown

How can you be so numb
Not to care if they come
You close your eyes
And pretend the job's done

"Oh bless me Lord, bless me Lord"
You know it's all I ever hear
No one aches, no one hurts
No one even sheds one tear

But He cries, He weeps, He bleeds
And He cares for your needs
And you just lay back
And keep soaking it in,
Oh, can't you see it's such a sin?

Cause He brings people to you door,
And you turn them away
As you smile and say,
"God bless you, be at peace"
And all heaven just weeps
Cause Jesus came to you door
You've left him out on the streets

Open up open up
And give yourself away
You see the need, you hear the cries
So how can you delay

God's calling and you're the one
But like Jonah you run
He's told you to speak
But you keep holding it in,
Oh can't you see it's such a sin?

The world is sleeping in the dark
That the church just can't fight
Cause it's asleep in the light
How can you be so dead
When you've been so well fed
Jesus rose from the grave
And you, you can't even get out of bed

Oh, Jesus rose from the dead
Come on, get out of your bed

How can you be so numb
Not to care if they come
You close your eyes
And pretend the job's done
You close your eyes
And pretend the job's done

Don't close your eyes
Don't pretend the jobs done
Come away, come away, come away with Me my love,
Come away, from this mess, come away with Me, my love.

andy
February 12th, 2004, 10:25 AM
I remember, many years ago, a song by Keith Green based on Mat 25 vs32-46.

A very powerful song indeed. True holiness is not taught in many churches today. It does seem to me that the power and life changing words of Jesus are watered down and diluted.

Imo, it seems like most people only want to hear what they want to hear.....not what God really is saying. I fully admit that I am guilty of this also.:doh

Krispy, thank you for posting this.

houseparent
February 12th, 2004, 10:28 AM
WOW!

I agree completely KK!

In other words...

AMEN!

His Sparrow
February 12th, 2004, 10:33 AM
Thanks Krispy. Now I need to go and examine my own heart.

ChopinFan
February 12th, 2004, 10:34 AM
Good stuff KK,

I'm going to have to check out this Keith Green fellow, I like his style. Sorry to hear he is no longer with us.

KrispyKritter
February 12th, 2004, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by ChopinFan
Good stuff KK,

I'm going to have to check out this Keith Green fellow, I like his style. Sorry to hear he is no longer with us.

He was killed in 1982, along with a son and a daughter who were both under 3 yrs old, and also a missionary family. Tragic, but it's a testament to his true annointing that his music and writings live on 22 years later.

joy4Him2day
February 12th, 2004, 11:37 AM
this is the reaction of many listening to Jesus:

:tsk :tsk :freaked

this is how we should react::dancing

and that will be the reaction to this writing, too.....

MyJesus
February 12th, 2004, 11:56 AM
Krispy, that is the BEST post I have ever read on Rapture Ready. It is SO the truth- grace cannot and will not be cheapened- God will not be mocked! I may be flamed for this but I wonder how many people who call themselves "Christians" will actually be saved. We ALL need to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. We are living in deceptive times and we must pray earnestly that we are not being deceived.

KrispyKritter
February 12th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by MyJesus
Krispy, that is the BEST post I have ever read on Rapture Ready. It is SO the truth- grace cannot and will not be cheapened- God will not be mocked! I may be flamed for this but I wonder how many people who call themselves "Christians" will actually be saved. We ALL need to examine ourselves to see if we are truly in the faith. We are living in deceptive times and we must pray earnestly that we are not being deceived.

The Word says many will come to Him on that day and say "Look at all we did in Your Name!" ...and He will say "Depart from Me, I never knew you."

KrispyKritter
February 12th, 2004, 03:53 PM
:bump

Leah4Jesus
February 12th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Although I was 4 when he died (so wasn't really my generation) Keith Green is above all my favourite singer. Man, that guy had such a heart for Jesus! The words of his songs are so breath taking, heart wrenching and soul shaking. They really make you think about the state of your walk with the Lord.

I read his biography and was deeply moved. He lived for God and nothing else. I know it's bad to be "jealous" of another person, but after reading that book I so wished that I followed Jesus like him. Talk about a heart of worship.

And how true is that article posted above. Doesn't it make you think, and really look closely into your heart. God doesn't owe us nothing. How much more do we owe him!

David Mark
February 13th, 2004, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by KrispyKritter
What's Specifically Wrong With Our Modern Gospel?
It's Me-Centered Instead of Christ-Centered. First and foremost, it is the gospel that appeals to the selfish. Instead of honoring God, it places the sinner at the center of God's love and plan. But the Bible places Jesus at the center of God's plan, not the sinner.

IHhO, the sinner is still an absolute ingredient in this equation. Without darkness, there is no one to lead out of it and no one to receive glory, praise and honor in the mercy, compassion and grace of such a rescue. Without those who are in bondage, there is no one to rescue and no hero to admire, praise or even worship. Without the weak, those who are strong have no one to demonstrate their power to and their glory can go unnoticed. Without dead people, there is no one to raise up to life and no wonderful story to tell. Without those who cannot save themselves there is no need of a savior. Without a transgressor, there is no one to offer forgiveness to.

It seems to me that the Lord himself looked ahead and endured much for the sake of what he would gain. He was raised up and is now seated on the right hand of God. How could he have gained anything without sinners? His initial loss, suffering and humiliation was only temporary he is not suffering any longer.

Being selfish for heavenly things can be a very good thing.

:):

Dave

mochamom
February 13th, 2004, 03:06 PM
I don't know about that, Dave.

"Jesus spoke these words, lifted His eyes up to heaven and said: Father the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as you have given Him authority over all flesh,that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 'And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory WHICH I HAD WITH YOU BEFORE THE WORLD WAS" John 17:1-5

Let's not forget, He created us, and not we ourselves.

What Jesus did, He did to glorify the Father. He obeyed, to the point of death, to glorify the Father.


Krispy, I have so enjoyed your post. It has really been thought provoking, I'll probably talk with you more about it later.

NEDoug
February 13th, 2004, 03:45 PM
A good book along these lines is one by J I Packard, entitled Rediscovering Holiness. Can't tell you the publisher, but it was written in the 1990's. Before I get any flack, I know he is a Preterist, but I didn't see any of that come through in reading the book. Just good, light reading that caused me to reflect more about the Holiness that all believers should aspire to.