Real Prophets Today?

[Wileyzmuse]

Hi All,

There is a very good thread going on right now about specific teachers/prophets/ministries that are potentially harmful to Christians.

Would anyone care to step out in faith and name those prophets/teachers that are NOT false, who teach the Word as it should be taught, and who prophesy according to God's Word.

I believe that those with the gift of discernment should feel comfortable doing this!?

YSIC,
Patricia

[onsolidrock]

Originally posted by Wileyzmuse
Hi All,

There is a very good thread going on right now about specific teachers/prophets/ministries that are potentially harmful to Christians.

Would anyone care to step out in faith and name those prophets/teachers that are NOT false, who teach the Word as it should be taught, and who prophesy according to God's Word.

I believe that those with the gift of discernment should feel comfortable doing this!?

YSIC,
Patricia

As far as prophets and prophecy today there are none.

1 Cor 13;8-13 says that prophecy stopped and faith hope and love continue on. Hope is looking forward to the return of Christ when it will be realized. Prophecy had to stop before the Rapture.
Verse 10 says that prophecy stopped when the object that was complete came. The only object that fits is the Canon which was completed by John when he wrote the book of Rev. about 95 A.D.

Also the Apostles and prophets laid the foundation for the Church. A building is always built on a foundation not the other way around.

[Patty T]

Hi Patricia :wave

I'm sure you'll find answers on both sides of the question.

There will be some who believe prophecy and prohets no longer exist, and others who believe it does and there are.

I believe as we get closer to the return of Christ, we will see both in greater measure.

God bless,

Patty
:):

[Brad MetalMan]

Are there prophets today? That depends. There is no one with the authority to write scripture. But in the New covenant, prophets did not write scripture, but it was the apostles and their associates that did.

The way the New Testament defines prophets, they are still around today.

On the contrary to what others are telling you 1 Corinthians 10:8-13 tells us that prophets will be around until the return of Christ.

I would recommend checking out Wayne Grudem's book "The Gift of Prophecy" he interacts with those with different views than himself on the gift of prophecy and proves why it is around today. He interacts with some of the best scholars from the theological school that teaches that there are no prophets today like John MacAuthur, O. Palmer Robertson and the like. A very good read, even if you don't agree with all that he says. I am convinced that the way he defines prophecy, even cessationists practice it without even knowing that they are.

[KrispyKritter]

Acutally that verse says

1 Corinthians 13:10 "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."

What is perfect? Only Christ. He hasnt come back yet.

There are still moments when some believers speak prophetically... but we confuse prophecy w/ fortune tellers. This practice is condemned in the Bible. Prophecy is a word of exhortation... encouragement. A teacher has an insightful teaching, he is speaking prophetically.

I believe 98% of what is passed off as prophecy today is false.

I feel the exact same about tongues. It's real, but boy is it abused!

[Wileyzmuse]

Ok so it appears that some believe that prophecy was only necessary for the writing of scripture, as opposed to some other edification of the church. Paul said to eagerly desire the gifts, especially prophecy...why would there be so much scripture dedicated to laying the foundation of the church and the gifts, if they were not to be a part of the actual church once it was established.

It seems to me that prophecy and other gifts are part of the foundation and operation of the church as the body of Christ.

OnSolidRock I have seen the verses you're speaking of, and that is always where people are divided. Tongues and prophecies are to cease 'when that which is perfect has come.'

I never thought of the canon as being 'that which is perfect.' I thought only Jesus could be considered that...

In Acts 21 (I think I got that right) there is a note of Philip's 4 daughters who prophecied. Their prophecies were not written down or shared with the world, but it was somehow significant that they did prophesy, because it was written in the inerrant, inspired Word of God. Why did they prophesy? Who did they prophesy to? Was it wrong, since they were women?

I don't mean to be antagonistic on this, but I think some are taught that the gifts are gone, and when I read the Bible, it appears to be saying just the opposite. Plus I have seen them operate repeatedly within the body.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your thoughts.

YSIC,
Patricia

[Wileyzmuse]

Ok, for those of you who DO believe there is prophecy today, and real prophets exist, can you name one that you believe has shown themselves to be a true prophet?!

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Wileyzmuse
Ok, for those of you who DO believe there is prophecy today, and real prophets exist, can you name one that you believe has shown themselves to be a true prophet?!

Keith Green.

[Wileyzmuse]

Cool, Krispy...I don't know anything about Keith Green so feel free to elaborate if you want to.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Wileyzmuse
Cool, Krispy...I don't know anything about Keith Green so feel free to elaborate if you want to.

Keith was not a prophet like so many today think of a prophet... which really are fortune tellers... I refer you to TBN.

Keith was a prophet much like John the Baptist, as one crying in the wilderness, calling believers to a no-compromise relationship w/Christ. No compromise w/the world, and w/ worldiness.

This was taken from a website... brief bio on Keith:

"For those not familiar with him, Keith Green was a prophet in the 70's who challenged the Church in America at the time to not compromise the meat of the gospel. He was a gifted musician, and produced records for the Body of Christ which he either gave away for free or for a nominal donation, since he did not believe that Christian ministries should be money oriented. Although he tried holding concerts at churches, he found this too limiting to his ministry due to the fragmented doctrines and agendas of the various churches and their leaders. Thereafter, he preached and sang outside of church walls. Shortly before his death, Keith Green traveled throughout the country giving concerts with a prophetic message, calling many Americans to the mission field. He died in a fatal plane crash along with other friends and some of his children at an early age, seemingly at the height of his ministry. Many, many Christians who were touched by his ministry mourned his death all across the United States. "

We need more "prophets" like Keith... and a whole less like Benny Hinn (who are no prophets at all ... and of no profit at all... except for profits for themselves).

[Patty T]

Krispy,

Was this brother any relation or friend to the other musician who died a few years ago? His name will not come to me right now.

He played guitar and didn't look like much, but had a powerful music ministry.

[onsolidrock]

Posted by Wileyzmuse. I never thought of the canon as being 'that which is perfect.' I thought only Jesus could be considered that...

posted by KrispyKritter. What is perfect? Only Christ. He hasnt come back yet.

The meaning for the word perfect is complete. In Greek grammer it is neuter. Neuter means that it is neither masculine or feminine. It requires a thing or object. Jesus is never referred to in this way.

Hope is in reference to the Coming of Christ. Titus 2;13
Hope continues after prophecy stops. There has to be a time period between the two.

[Hootmon]

Prophets are the 'mouth pieces' of God. That may include foretellings, or it may just be a simple smack upside the head.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Patty T
Krispy,

Was this brother any relation or friend to the other musician who died a few years ago? His name will not come to me right now.

He played guitar and didn't look like much, but had a powerful music ministry.

Hi PattyT... no, I dont think so.

[ronredeem]

John 17

20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[5] believe in Me through their word; 21that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.

The perfection Paul is referring to is the same perfection Jesus was talking about and that is the oneness in us. Love being the adhesion that holds us together. That’s why when this event occurs we won’t need tongues or prophesy because we will be connected.

OnSolidRock, I ask this question once more are you saying that there are no prophet because of what you know or what you believe?

[onsolidrock]

As I was studying His precious Word over the past year, it suddenly dawned on me that my whole view of myself and my calling was all backwards. So many people had told me that I was a "prophet" over the years that I had believed "they must be right." I saw myself as a spokesman to my generation in the church - not the spokesman, but one of a number, chosen by God to be used to correct and exhort believers to obey God and win this world for Jesus. It's not that I no longer believe I'm called to do that, it's just that now I see that every believer is called to do that - to call all Christians everywhere to obey God and win the world for Christ!

The main thing that God has shown me through it all is this: I'm not called to be a prophet, I'm called to be a CHIRISTIAN - a servant of the living God! That is the HIGHEST calling that anyone can realize. And the most beautiful thing has happened in my heart. My whole goal in life has completely changed-the only thing that I want to achieve, is to have the Lord tell me when I stand before Him, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant!" Not, "Well done, thou good and faithful prophet," or pastor, or writer, or singer, or anything else. To be a Christian, to live up to that wonderful word - that is my ONLY goal.

www.lastdaysministries.org/articles/keithgreen.html

This was written by Keith Green

[onsolidrock]

Originally posted by ronredeem


OnSolidRock, I ask this question once more are you saying that there are no prophet because of what you know or what you believe?

I base what I believe on the Word of God.

I could always be wrong. So far no one has offered a reasonable explanation of the Hope in verse 13. Some have claimed that hope extends beyond the Coming of Christ, but that doesn't make sense or fit the context very well.

[Wileyzmuse]

OnSolidRock I like what you wrote in your last post about being a prophet vs. not being one. Reminds me of the scripture that talks about Jesus not considering equality with God something to be grasped (Philippians 2:6) but made himself nothing. That is what I hear in your voice.

However, just because you don't claim the title doesn't mean you don't have the gift. And I don't really think a prophet calls himself a prophet...that person simply does what they are asked by God to do.

The NT does say to eagerly desire the gift of prophecy, so at the same time it seems ok to want to have this particular gift and use it in its proper context.

YSIC,
Patricia

[Bondservant]

The gift of prophecy can include the ability to to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others and edify.....Prophecy speaks edification, exhortation and comfort to men , Prophecy edifies the Church ....

with this in mind, I submit Dave Hunt as an example of one with this gift.

[Brad MetalMan]

Originally posted by Bondservant
The gift of prophecy can include the ability to to teach, refute, reprove, admonish, comfort others and edify.....Prophecy speaks edification, exhortation and comfort to men , Prophecy edifies the Church ....

with this in mind, I submit Dave Hunt as an example of one with this gift.

Exactly. I would add the prophecy to distinguish itself from teaching and preaching is something to we cannot do ourselves, but comes by the power of the Holy Spirit. The information needed to do these things can only come by revelation from the Spirit to us, for it to be a prophecy.

An example would be if I was praying for someone I did not know well over a situation X, and the Spirit revealed to me information related to situation X for me to tell the person in order to comfort them, edify them or admonish them about situation X, that would be a prophecy.

Or if I were a Pastor in my church and I asked God to show me what my church need to be taught on for a particular Sunday, and God showed me by revealing to me what I did not know myself to teach about, that would be prophetic preaching of some sort.

That's why I don't get the argument about the completion of the canon rendering prophecy useless in the church. The completion of the canon has nothing to do with prophecy in this sense.

[Wileyzmuse]

Bradmetalman...your description sounds more like the gift of Knowledge and/or Wisdom to me...please advise?

[Brad MetalMan]

Originally posted by Wileyzmuse
Bradmetalman...your description sounds more like the gift of Knowledge and/or Wisdom to me...please advise?


You might be right, but I would say Words of Wisdom/Knowledge are the same thing minus the supernatural origin of the information. Prophecy involves supernatural revelation, Words of Wisdom and Knowledge do not.

[Wileyzmuse]

Ok, thanks. :D:

[onsolidrock]

Originally posted by Brad MetalMan
You might be right, but I would say Words of Wisdom/Knowledge are the same thing minus the supernatural origin of the information. Prophecy involves supernatural revelation, Words of Wisdom and Knowledge do not.

Wisdom, knowledge, and prophecy were all different gifts of the Holy Spirit. The origin of all of them were supernatural. The Bible does not tell us exactly what they were so how do you know that all three did not involve supernatural revelation?

[Songbird8]

Kim Clement

Check out his website kimclement.com


shalom!!
:angel :wave

[onsolidrock]

Originally posted by Songbird8
Kim Clement

Check out his website kimclement.com


shalom!!
:angel :wave

You're kidding! Right? PLEASE tell me you're kidding.

:tape

[MrMannn]

Kim has already been exposed as a false prophet.

He is a deciever straight from satan.

[Brad MetalMan]

Originally posted by onsolidrock
Wisdom, knowledge, and prophecy were all different gifts of the Holy Spirit. The origin of all of them were supernatural. The Bible does not tell us exactly what they were so how do you know that all three did not involve supernatural revelation?

Well I can't anymore than you can say that all three did involve supernatural revelation. I agree with you, in the sense that the Bible does not say a whole lot about Words of Wisdom and Knowledge. It says alot more about prophecy-and makes it clear that prophecy is supernatural. In light of my definition of prophecy and words of wisdom/knowledge, there has to be a distinction between Words of wisdom/knowledge and prophecy. The best distinction as far as I can tell is that one involves supernatural revelation and the other does not.

If I am right, then one could not say words of knowledge/wisdom ceased with the completion of the canon because they are not supernatural charismata, like tongues and prophecy.

[Songbird8]

:angel

[sandy111]

with the above post, would Jesus have been considered
"divisive" etc. when he called the pharasees "vipers"
He sure had some strong words for them.
and I can tell you He loved them too, but said what had to be said.

also, the HS is never going to tell us something against Gods written word.
This following the HS to the point where it is nothing more than the LDS and their "burning in the bosom" is not and I repeat NOT from the Lord. and it is not the HS at work.

remember satan comes as an angel of light,
not with the pitchfork and horns....

a false prophet is a false prophet no matter how much
one may want them to be otherwise.

[Hootmon]

Scripture sets the standard of 'never wrong' for a prophet of God.

If your 'prophet' predicts something that doesnt come true, he is not of God. Its very straight forward and easy to determine. To continue believing in someone proven as being false is an error.

[Xlcor]

He doesn't predict the future, but in the broad sense, I believe David Wilkerson to be a Pastor with a clarion call to holiness before the Lord.

[onsolidrock]

Originally posted by Xlcor
He doesn't predict the future, but in the broad sense, I believe David Wilkerson to be a Pastor with a clarion call to holiness before the Lord.

www.loriswebs.com/endtimeprophets/wilkerson.html

No more gospel Television Networks by 1999
From David Wilkerson's newsletter "In the Solomon Church" 12-19-94 (it can also be found at the following URL if you can read polish: http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/polish/ts941219.htm

"Right now I sense in my spirit that in less that 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin.
From David Wilkerson's Newsletter Oct. 8, 2001 "A Prophetic Warning to New York City"where he quoted a prophecy from his Sept. 7, 1992 newletter

"I have had recurring visions of over 1,000 fires burning at one time here in New York city. I am convinced RACE RIOTS WILL SOON EXPLODE! New York City is right now a powder keg-ready to blow!...federal and State Welfare cutbacks will be the spark that ignites the fuse. NEXT YEAR, New York City could have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits....Federal troops will have to move in to restore order. New York City will have tanks running down its avenues....Churches will be closed for a season because it will be too dangerous to travel about. Fires will rage everywhere. "

False Teachings
In a Newsletter, dated Sept. 16, 2001 (also dated Oct 8, 01) "The Towers Have Fallen" Wilkerson stated the following re the Disaster in NY on Sept. 11, 2001:

"One network anchorman said this, and I quote him, 'Just think of it. Our two symbols of power and prosperity have been smitten in one hour.' "

"He didn't know he was quoting from Revelation 18:10, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.' "