Whats so wrong w/ Rick Joyner?

[KrispyKritter]

Rick Joyner and Morning Star Ministries has been coming up on threads lately, and someone PM'd me this morning to inquire as to what is "Manifest Sons of God" and "Joel's Army" ... and why many believe it to be a false doctrine.

Unfortunately I dont have time to get into the specifics this morning, but thought I would open a thread here and ask for contributions from those who can throw in some informative posts...

So ... go for it!

[Patty T]

Thank you Krispy for starting this thread. I am very interested to read the responses as this is one of my mom's favorite people. She subscribes to his journal.

I just hope that people will pray about their response.


Patty
:):

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Patty T
Thank you Krispy for starting this thread. I am very interested to read the responses as this is one of my mom's favorite people. She subscribes to his journal.

I just hope that people will pray about their response.


Patty
:):

Amen Patty... I pray we can keep this thread civil, everyone. Too much bickering lately, and regrettably... I have been involved in some of it.

I'm only presenting facts in my next post... lets keep this on a "just the facts, ma'am" basis and try to not get so emotional.

One thing I find interesting on this website is the number of people who think Rick Joyner is a-ok.... when Joyner completely denies that there will ever be such a thing as a rapture!

[KrispyKritter]

This is take from www.apologeticsindex.org … my wife and I used to attend a church here in North Carolina that is part of Morning Star ministries, and I can personally attest that these folks have the right take on Rick Joyner and Morning Star Ministries… and their false prophets/teachers. We attended that church when we were very young in the faith… and praise God He instilled in me a passion to study His Word, and that the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the gross heretical teachings of this bunch.

Hope this helps! …. Krispy.

Rick Joyner heads Morningstar Ministries Many supporters of today's controversial Renewal and Revival movements consider him to be a "prophet" and/or "apostle".

Others, including theologians, apologists and cult watchers, rightly consider Joyner to by one the most unsound and dangerous teachers around. His error-filled, unorthodox teachings include (but are not limited to) Kingdom Now (or Dominion) theology, extra-biblical revelation, and the denial of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Rick Joyner is neither a true prophet nor apostle. He teaches too much error to be either. He holds out (by his many books) an appearance of taking us to higher ground when in reality he robs us of a rich doctrinal heritage as well as the Bible. His dominionism is false and utopian and he confuses the resurrection and reign of Christ with the present state of the Church, thereby misleading Christians with false hope.

Joyner's claims of revelation knowledge produce a dulling effect in regard to a desire for the Scriptures.

Joyner's books are a jumble of confusion. One has to wade through a lot of sludge to find a few nuggets of truth.

The CRN Journal says that Joyner is peddling a ''dark mysticism'' and they conclude:
''Joyner leaves us no middle way. Either we treat him as God's chosen super-prophet for the end-times, or we treat him as a man in the grip of evil deceit and seek to expose him as such''
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal , October-December 2000, page 14-15

Examples of Joyner's false prophecies abound. For example:

In the late 1990s, Joyner jumped onto the Y2K bandwagon as he claimed that the Lord ''finally did begin to speak'' about the issue. According to Joyner, God supposedly revealed that, ''The most severe difficulties will come from the panic generated by the situation'' and '' The Lord told me to observe the problems that Y2K will cause in the natural world as a reflection of the problems we have in the body of Christ.''

Thus according to Joyner's revelation the Church must not have had problems since Y2K was a non-event.
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal , October-December 2000, page 6

Typical of the Joyner/Jones prophecies is this December 31, 1997 prophecy. It includes the type of judgement prophecies that have become popular in today's so-called renewal and revival movements (e.g. LA is to be leveled by earthquakes AND nuclear bombs; the Mississipi will be 35 miles wide...). Check the date, and the time-schedules hinted at. (Nine months: this movement is always talking about spiritual pregnancy, things born in the spirit, etc. One of the manifestations looks and sounds like someone giving birth).
Note that at the time, Joyner was selling cabins at his East Coast ''Moravian community.'' (Morningstar Prophetic Bulletin, April, 1998)

Prophets? Apostles? Super-Apostles?

Like other leaders in the fore- and background of the controversial renewal/revival movements, Joyner rarely refers to himself as a prophet. However, these leaders refer to each other as apostles and prophets - and certainly do not discourage their followers from addressing them as such.

In his book "The Harvest," Joyner says:

What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas...

Though Joyner's doctrinal statement is a rather standard one, we will see that in many places his writings and books contradict and undermine it. One can only wonder if his doctrinal statement is merely window dressing and subterfuge; or if perhaps his allegiance to a movement which views itself as a superlative extension of the Church has moved him aways from a more stable and orthodox foundation. Joyner is like a child musician playing many sour notes with the good ones while telling us he is an accomplished prodigy. When we object, he will call attention to the few good notes. Joyner's trumpet is offkey and giving out an ''uncertain sound'' (1 Corinthians 14:7-8 . Had he lived in the Old Testament era, he would have been stoned by now (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 , 18:20-22 )

Joyner unabashedly promotes his most bizarre and unrealistic ideas this way:
''In the near future the church will not be looking back at the first century church with envy because of the great exploits of those days, but all will be saying that He certainly did save His best wine for last. The most glorious times in all of history have now come upon us. You who have dreamed of one day being able to talk with Peter, John and Paul are going to be surprised to find that they have all been waiting to talk to you! You have been chosen to see the harvest, the fruit of the seed that they were planting.''
Joyner is so bold as to state that nations will be overwhelmed by the newly appointed apostles and that ''Miracles which exceed even some of the most spectacular biblical marvels will cause whole nations to acknowledge Jesus ... The appearances of angels will be so common that they will cease to be related as significant events. The Lord himself will appear to councils of apostles and elders to give them directives.''

Joyner has two major obsessions: ''Prophetic Restoration'' and ''Apostolic Restoration.'' He explains these as follows:
''A new wave of ministries is about to be released with extraordinary prophetic gifts. Others with revelatory gifting who were sidetracked because of controversy, or other problems, are about to get back on the fast track ... The apostolic ministry that opened the church age will be raised up at the end to complete it. The Lord is restoring the apostolic authority of the church and soon this will become a major emphasis. There will be almost a general openness to this as men of true apostolic authority, with a true apostolic lifestyle, take their place in leadership.''
Glaringly absent from Joyner's agenda is any biblical warrant for his words. There is no Scripture offered as proof for this self-serving illusion. Ephesians is clear that the Church is built on ''the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets.'' (Ephesians 2:19). Why would God have to lay the foundation all over again? The Church, since the time of Paul, is described as ''God's building. '' (1 Corinthians 3:91-10). A building, especially God's Church, is not in need of another foundation. No wonder Joyner gives not Scripture for his grandiose imaginings.
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal , October-December 2000, page 7

Many people involved in the renewal and revival movements have reported that they are told, by Joyner and other teachers, that we can not find everything that's currently happening in the church in Scripture precisely because God is doing a ''new thing.'' Instead, Joyner has prophesied that there will be ''super apostles.'' These apostles are said to be needed to administer the ''new thing'' God is doing. Thus Christians are encouraged to not judge, discern, or even pray about the teachings within these movements. After all, like the apostles of old, who participated in writing Scripture before, the new ''super-apostles'' won't steer you wrong... would they?

Joyner Discourages Discernment

Not surprisingly, as a false teacher, Rick Joyner not only lacks discernment himself, but also strongly discourages Christians from obeying Scripture when it talks about applying biblical principles of discernment. He tries to silence critics of his ministry and teachings and/or the movements and doctrines he supports by suggesting that critics have what he terms a ''Jezebel spirit,'' or ''religious spirit.''

Even if one takes the liberty to judge the prophet and his message, you are labeled a ''pharisee,'' or worse yet possess a ''religious'' and ''Jezebel spirit.'' PFO director Steve Cannon points out a recurrent theme is Joyner's writings, a concept called ''The Two Ministries.'' Joyner describes the second of the two ministries as ''faultfinders'' and says they are a destructive force.'' Cannon maintains, ''This doctrine ... is used, I think, to intimidate any who may criticize, into thinking that by doing so, they are operating under the spirit of Satan.''
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal , October-December 2000, page 6

Joyner doesn't stop there in his efforts to escape accountability:

Still going further afield, Joyner warns that cult research is dangerous and ought not be be pursued. This would surely keep the discerning off his case. As much warning as there is in the Bible against false religions and heresies (e.g. ''test the spirits,'' 1 John 4:1 ), Joyner's words are ill-advised and foolish:
''Few who devote themselves to studying cults or deviant doctrines are able to distinguis the true word of the Lord, and usually their hearts are immediately darkened by the very evil they seek to expose. We will be changed into that which we are beholding (II Corinthians 3:18 ). There is an implied warning in the Lord's message to the church in Thyatira about 'knowing the deep things of Satan' (Revelation 2:24) . The more we focus on what is wrong, or the practices of the evil one, the more we, ourselves, will be changed into the nature of what we are seeing.''
Thus, according to Joyner, to be discerning - to be a Berean - is to go into darkness. That's what Jehovah's Witnesses say of Bible study apart from their literature - they too discourage any type of discernment. Once again Joyner sounds more cultic than Christian.

Moreover, in the above citation, Joyner demonstrates yet another example of his frightful handling of God's Word. The people of Thyatira did not ''know [know by experience] the depths of Satan,'' which in the context was idolatry and sexual immorality (Revelation 2:20 , simply because they were discerning! They did not practice these things since they were able to discern their evil nature and avoid them. Knowing the depth os Satan is not the study of false teachers like Joyner but the practice (knowing by experience) and promotion of immorality and idolatry.
Source: The Higher Life of Rick Joyner: Chasing the Delusion of Power and Dominion, The Quarterly Journal , October-December 2000, page 12

A Supporter of Aberrant, Unorthodox and Heretical Teachings

Joyner says:

I have never been part of the Vineyard, though I did minister at Vineyard conferences a few times, and have always appreciated them. I have never been a part of the movement that originated in Kansas City, though I have the highest regard for them.
Rick Joyner

He does, in fact, promote the teachings and prophecies of the "Kansas City Prophets", and publishes the prophecies of Bob Jones, introducing or interspersing them with his own comments and/or clarifications. See, for example, the Shepherd's Rod prophecies.

He promotes Latter Rain and Manifest Sons of God theology, and claims that from among the Manifest Sons of God "super-apostles" ("35 Pauls") will be created.

One doctrine increasingly promoted is that of the Corporate Christ where the Church itself (actually, a "Remnant" = those who now accept the "new move of God") becomes Christ the moment it subdues and rules the earth. In his book "The Harvest" he says:

The doctrine of the rapture was a great and effective ruse of the enemy to implant in the church a retreat mentality, but it will not succeed. Already this yoke has been cast off by the majority in the advancing church and it will soon be cast off by all...
Rick Joyner, The Harvest, 1989/1990 revised booklet on pg.121, as quoted at Let Us Reason

The Final Quest

Joyner's book "The Final Quest" should be read in light of that view. In the book, Joyner relates an ongoing ''vision,'' which he claims to have received in a dream. In early 1995 he published a condensed version of the first dream in his Morningstar Prophetic Bulletin and The Morningstar Journal under the title "The Hordes of Hell Are Marching". Both publications are found at his site

Later he published two additional condensed versions of subsequent visions.
(The vision sounds much like those relayed by Bob Jones. Like Jones, Joyner is taken into the heavenlies, shown things, has things explained to him, is told how spiritually astute and wise he is, etc.)

Joyner says these became the most popular writings Morningstar had ever published. Therefore, he decided to publish them in a book, and to include to full versions. Two more sections were added, and the book ends with "To be continued..."

The Final Quest is about Joyner's vision on what he sees is the war is now underway between those who support the "move of God" and those who oppose it. Those who oppose the "move" as seen by joyner, comprise the hordes of hell. The "move of God" Joyner supports is the Toronto Blessing and similar renewal and revival movements. Oppose this 'new thing God is doing' and you're in trouble... Thus Joyner's "Final Quest" vision provides a chilling background to his "Civil War in the Church" vision.

Conclusion

Given Rick Joyner's ongoing record of false prophecies, unbiblical and unorthodox teachings, extra-biblical revelation, lack of accountability, and other problems, the publisher of Apologetics Index strongly warns against involvement with Rick Joyner and Morningstar Ministries.

One of the greatest hazards affecting maturing prophets is the erroneous interpretation of the Old Testament exhortation that if a prophet ever predicted something which did not come to pass he was no longer to be considered a true prophet (see Deut. 18:20-22). The warning was that if this happened, the prophet had been presumptuous and the people were not to fear him. If one predicts something in the name of the Lord and it does not come to pass, he probably has spoken presumptuously and needs to be repented of, but that does not make him a false prophet. No one could step out in the faith required to walk in his calling if he knew that a single mistake would ruin him for life.
The Prophetic Ministry, The Morning Star Prophetic Newsletter, Rick Joyner, n.d., Vol 3, No. 2, pg. 2.

Bob [Jones] was told that the general level of prophetic revelation in the church was about 65% accurate at this time. Some are only about 10% accurate, a very few of the most mature prophets are approaching 85% to 95% accuracy. Prophecy is increasing in purity, but there is still a long way to go for those who walk in this ministry. This is actually grace for the church now, because 100% accuracy in this ministry will bring a level of accountability to the church which she is too immature to bear at this time; it would result in too many 'Ananias and Sapphiras.' That so many the (sic) prophetic ministries are still missing so much is also meant to work humility and wisdom in them so that they will be able to handle the authority and power coming in the near future.
The Prophetic Ministry, The Morning Star Prophetic Newsletter, Rick Joyner, n.d., Vol 3, No. 2, pg. 4

What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord's faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas...
Rick Joyner, "The Harvest"

[Patty T]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Amen Patty... I pray we can keep this thread civil, everyone. Too much bickering lately, and regrettably... I have been involved in some of it.

I'm only presenting facts in my next post... lets keep this on a "just the facts, ma'am" basis and try to not get so emotional.

One thing I find interesting on this website is the number of people who think Rick Joyner is a-ok.... when Joyner completely denies that there will ever be such a thing as a rapture!

Krispy,

Let me ask you a question.

There are brothers and sisters here who differ on their interpretation of the timing of the rapture. Obviously no one really knows for certain when. So someone will be wrong.

How is that different from another brother or sister whose interpretation is that there will be no rapture?

If all three of these categories believe the core doctrine for salvation, why is the rapture timing, (or complete lack thereof) important?

Please know that I am asking this as sincerely and honestly as I can.

Thanks,

Patty
:wave

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Patty T
Krispy,

Let me ask you a question.

There are brothers and sisters here who differ on their interpretation of the timing of the rapture. Obviously no one really knows for certain when. So someone will be wrong.

How is that different from another brother or sister whose interpretation is that there will be no rapture?

If all three of these categories believe the core doctrine for salvation, why is the rapture timing, (or complete lack thereof) important?

Please know that I am asking this as sincerely and honestly as I can.

Thanks,

Patty
:wave

Good question, Patty... obviously the Bible teaches in the Epistles ot the Thessolonians that there will be a rapture. We will be caught up in the air. The timing can be debated... I myself am pan-trib. I believe it will all "pan out"!

But the question must be asked... if a teacher doesnt believe in a rapture at all... what do they believe in? That is where the heresy lies...

Here's a good article that articulates the Manifest Sons of God "theology" (false doctrine) ... your answer lies in this:

The 'Manifested Sons of God' heresy finds its root in, amongst other things, Pelagianism, Semi-Pelagianism and Arminianism - themselves heresies fought-against by the early church fathers. (The Pelagian part is that which says men may attain to perfection in this world. The Semi-Palagian part is that which says faith is an act of human freedom; atonement is universal, and it is possible to lose our salvation. The Arminian part says salvation - and even predestination - depends on our response; Christ died for everyone; grace can be resisted, and it is possible to lose our salvation. All of these heresies - and more - are contained in charismaticism in general, the Toronto Blessing, and are heightened in the MSoG heresy-cum-blasphemy).

Krispy-note: there is controversy about OSAS on this site... this is not to start that debate on this thread... I would prefer to stick to Pelagian, which says men may attain to perfection in this world)

The MSoG heresy arose out of the Latter Rain heresy, which was denounced by the Asssemblies of God in 1948. Yet, today, the MSoG idea is pushed by big-name charismatic preachers (and their puppet minions in local churches), who talk of a "great end time army", who will "take nations for God" and will "usher in the kingdom of God" or bring the "next revival". These people would probably deny being influenced by the MSoG or Latter Rain heresies - but that is exactly what they are preaching!

The idea for the MSoG theory comes from Romans 8:19: "For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God." This leads to the idea that if creation is 'waiting', then it is up to us to hurriedly do something! As the Church we are the Christ and so we can deliver creation from corruption. But we cannot do all this until we realise we are the Christ and do something about it! Once we do, we shall become immortal. Then we can 'crush God's enemies, even death, and usher in the kingdom of God and take the world for Jesus through the miracle working power that is within us.' (quoted from Randles). This is the thinking we observed in the Toronto Blessing!

Thus waiting for a rapture was discarded, in favour of an inner coming of Christ, instant activity, and a new world brought in by Super-Christians, who are Christ. This same message was taught by Latter Rain, and also in the numbing Shepherding movement. Other movements also bear the core of this MSoG heresy, including 'Word Faith', 'Kingdom Now', 'Dominion', 'The Prophetic Move', the 'Toronto Blessing', and others.

However, like Jehovah's Witnesses, they change their beliefs as often as is necessary to cover-up their mistakes! Thus the MSoG movement amended its initial claims by saying that not all churches and Believers will receive "the revelation" concerning their coming super-state. Instead the whole weight bringing-in the brand new world will be on the shoulders of a select band of Christians, called the "100 fold fruit of the earth, brought forth by the Latter Rain...They are the ones who put Satan under their feet and gain back the inheritance lost by Adam and much more beyond that." Of course, none of these folks wanted to be merely one of the redeemed, when he or she could be one of the elite "principle wheat"!

Today, this thinking is found in the so-called 'New Breed' teaching of the Kansas City Prophets (KCP) and the late John Wimber. Thus, according to Mike Bickle (a KCP), there are several levels of apostles today - ordinary apostles, imminent apostles and most imminent apostles - and there would only be 35 most imminent apostles in the world, who would be all-powerful and of the highest level! These apostles will be the "Elijah's" of the last days, or "Joel's Army". John Wimber supported this view, and the view that says the super-church will be the "corporate Christ" or the "ongoing incarnation of Christ". In some form or another, these appalling views have become dominant in the charismatic churches, even though they were rejected in the 1940's.

Also according to these views, Christ was only the pattern of something perfect to come - that is, us, today's Christians!! If this is true, then 'perfection' was found in the Toronto Blessing, with its havoc, hatred and sexual licence! Another idea in MSoG teaching is that Christ is incomplete without us, His Body. I have heard this teaching even recently, in my home city - and also the allied teaching that because Christ is incomplete and He 'failed' in some measure whilst on this earth, we have to 'help Him' win the world to Christ.

Kenneth Hagin (Word of Faith leader) said: "The believer is just as much an incarnation as Jesus was." Earl Paulk went further: "Jesus was God in the flesh. We must be as he was in the world in volume and influence...The completion of the incarnation of God in the world must be in His Church...Jesus Christ is the firstfruits, but without the ongoing harvest, the incarnation will never be complete....We are on earth as extensions of God to finish the work He began. We are the essence of God, His ongoing incarnation in the world." This incredible teaching - the claim to be Christ Himself - is found today. If you are in a charismatic church, then be warned, that this is the kind of teaching behind your movement! The name-tags of the various teachings might change, but the same themes show through, maybe in varied intensity - but still there, influencing those who think they are 'the true Church'.

Morris Cerullo is another culprit. He said on video, to a congregation: "Everyone repeat after me - God is duplicating Himself on this earth...At last, the time has arrived, God is releasing His life through the Body...Today I am a Son of the all powerful Almighty God...The fullness of the Godhead dwells in me...God has planned for me to be Christ's image on this earth." This utter blasphemy is repeated many times throughout the charismatic movement. Kenneth Copeland has also said that we are "little gods". Thus the one who will rule the earth with a rod of iron (Revelation) is not Christ Himself - but the prophets and apostles of the new age, who will 'finish the job Christ could not complete' (even though He said "It is finished")!

Those Christians who live in the golden age must submit to the super-leaders, or they "shall be destroyed from among the people" (Warnock). How like Islam! In that time there will be a 'new definition of Christianity' and Christ will be 'trying to get the church back' (Wimber). In this view, Christ no longer has the Church as His own, so we must get it back for Him 'before He is able to return'. Marc DuPont (a so-called prophet at Toronto Airport Church) has even said that "God is bored with the Church"!

The MSoG movement has three major aspects:

(a) Relentless attack on the orthodox church

(b) Ridicule of the 'blessed hope'

(c) Reliance on allegory and not scripture.

Note how Rodney Howard Browne is a master of ridicule of the churches? Note his description of faithful preachers who test the spirits - they are 'religious devils' or 'deadheads', etc. Presently, these folks have no regard for anyone but themselves. They do not care about criticisms such as this one, because they see themselves as Latter Rain saints, soon to be glorified as Super-Saints! They are growing in number (but not quality of spirit) and this is sufficient proof for their muddled brains that they are the chosen ones, the coming 'corporate Christ'. They use such words as "Jezebel spirits" or "Ahab spirits" and go forward to receive the "Jehu Anointing". Myth, legend and imagination is their meat, and it is poisoned! They believe in a spiritual second coming, because any idea of an actual second coming is a "ruse of the enemy" (Joyner).

Leaders of this fantastic movement base their beliefs on astrology, mysticism and spiritualism, plus a sprinkling of scripture. Believe them at your own risk!

[Patty T]

Thanks for the info. I most certainly believe in the rapture - though the timing of it seems to be a continual study :laugh

During my first few years in my relationship with God, I listened and learned about most teachings from those my mom listened to / read from.

Needless to say, what I am now reading here on the board totally goes against most of what I have been taught.

I have determined not to just take anyone's view or opinion or interpretation without investigating, studying and praying about it. If even a portion of what is written about those teaching is true, well, you can see where I'm going with this.

I want desparately to know God and the truth of His word. I also don't want to "touch" His annointed. I want to be careful not to do what I did for the first few years, and just take everyone's word for things. I will study and put in the time and pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help me discern.

I appreciate you taking the time to post what you did. It will certainly help.

God Bless ya brother

Patty
:):

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Patty T
Thanks for the info. I most certainly believe in the rapture - though the timing of it seems to be a continual study :laugh

During my first few years in my relationship with God, I listened and learned about most teachings from those my mom listened to / read from.

Needless to say, what I am now reading here on the board totally goes against most of what I have been taught.

I have determined not to just take anyone's view or opinion or interpretation without investigating, studying and praying about it. If even a portion of what is written about those teaching is true, well, you can see where I'm going with this.

I want desparately to know God and the truth of His word. I also don't want to "touch" His annointed. I want to be careful not to do what I did for the first few years, and just take everyone's word for things. I will study and put in the time and pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help me discern.

I appreciate you taking the time to post what you did. It will certainly help.

God Bless ya brother

Patty
:):

Anything for you, Patty, you know that!

What you said is what it's all about... being a Berean. God is fully capable of teaching you everything He wants you to know. Even the most respected teacher is capable of making mistakes, and that is why we need to study everything and make sure we are getting the truth.

As to touching the annointed... I can see the influence of these folks on you by that statement. While it is a true statement, it is not blasphemy to question someone's doctrine. Even if you're the one who is wrong. But when someone is found to be completely off base in their teachings, Paul commanded us to mark them and avoid them. Paul always named names of false teachers, and detailed what their teaching was, and why it was false. It's a very scriptural thing to do.

When it can be proven that they are false teachers, then you can know that they are not annointed. It's a loving thing to point out the error... becuz if we don't, others may follow them. Also, perhaps... just perhaps... the false teachers may have their eyes opened as well.

Krispy...

[Patty T]

Krispy,

You are my brother and my friend :kiss and I really appreciate you and your love for the Lord.

It's not easy to reflect on the notion the last three years of learning may have all been lies. :sigh

But I know God is faithful to get us on the right track.

Thank you for your wisdom and insight.


Patty
:):

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Patty T
It's not easy to reflect on the notion the last three years of learning may have all been lies. :sigh

No no no... don't think like that. The danger of false teachers is that they are subtle. They mix the lies in with the truth. I'm sure you learned plenty of truth over the last couple years... but now you have to go thru the messy chore of dividing the truth from the lies. But now you can appreciate why Satan does what he does. At first people see truth in what these false teachers teach, and they see nothing wrong. After awhile they are steeped in untruths. It's very gradual and subtle.

Thats why I get so passionate about these folks... a little leaven ruins the entire loaf.

I used to buy into all this stuff, and scoffed at people who opposed it. But then it occurred to me... maybe these people oppose them for a good reason. So the more I dug the more I realized how deceived we were!

The Word of God... and nothing else. If you cant find it in there... it aint worth knowin' about. Thats what my grandpa always says. I figure after almost 90 years, he knows a thing or two.

[Songbird8]

THIS MY POINT!!!! CAUTION, CAUTION, CAUTION.........

It seems that those called to the prophetic WHETHER in the office of a prophet, of which I believe there are very few, or are used in the prophetic occasionaly as Holy Spirit directs them, or spontaneous prophetic worship/intercession........those of our brothers and sisters that are called in this way are constantly under criticism and 'deemed' heretics, blasphemers, etc. They are judged as extreme because they are not understood and much of what they have quote 'unquote'' have said or done', is taken out of context, the truth stretched, and we do not get the whole picture from just bits and pieces of many of their accusers. Our greatest persecution will come from our own ........we are all very familiar I'm sure with 'shooting and wounding' our very own.

REMEMBER!!!
THEY THOUGHT JESUS WAS A BLASPHEMER, A WINEBIBBER, CRAZY, A HERETIC!!!:eek

" So when they continued asking him, He lifted up himself, and said unto them, 'He that is whout sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." John 8:7




ALL I KNOW IS THIS........WE MUST BE READY!! NOW!!! COMPLETELY ABANDONED TO GOD ALONE, TO DO HIS WILL, AND THE COST IS EVERYTHING!!!!!



And absolutely Krispy, we all need to be good Bereans and study the Word, saturate ourselves in the Word and in His Presence.

IT'S ALL ABOUT GOD!!!!
SEEKING HIS FACE!!
SEEKING HIS KINGDOM FIRST AND ALL HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS.......

In these days where they are 'voices, among voices' all over the world saying, 'thus sayeth the Lord'..........the grand illusion is I believe, truly just beginning.............seducing spirits and doctrines of demons are running wildly...........

WE MUST KNOW THE WORD!!
WE MUST TRULY KNOW OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND KNOW HIS
VOICE!!!!!

BUT!!!!

We so easily and all of us are guilty of this.........we 'PUT GOD IN OUR BOX'..............WE CAN NOT DO THIS.........GOD IS GOD!!!

Constantly our prayers should be, is there anything in me Lord that is not of you, or unholy or profane?? Is there anything, any wounding deep within our heart we thought long gone, and don't even realize it's still there??? Is there anything Father, separating me from You????

OUR HEART CRY SHOULD BE ONE OF DESPERATION TO TRULY KNOW OUR FATHER, THE ONE TRUE, LIVING GOD, OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB!!!

We need to realize our desperate state!!!
We need to be in constant communion and fellowship with Holy Spirit and abide in that 'secret place' our Father longs for each and every one of us to be..........a relationship with Him, that many don't even realize the intimacy He longs to have with each and every one of us!!!

And when we are walking with Him in this way, in a state of repentace and humility........we will HEAR HIM..........WE WILL KNOW AND DISCERN WHAT IS NOT OF HIM!!!!

BE CAREFUL FOR WHAT MANY MEN'S OPINIONS OFFER IN JUDGEMENT!!!! SOME ARE CHRISTIANS, SOME ARE NOT!!! A LOT CLAIM TO BE CHRISTIANS ARE TRULY ARE NOT!!!!



Each and every one of us is accountable to God and God alone.
And on that day, it will be just you, and just me, standing before Him!!!!

So, didn't mean to get off track.......but all this is very relevant!!!!

BE CAREFUL..........CAUTION, CAUTION, CAUTION!!!!

Shalom to you all!!!!
HIS little songbird!!!




:wave :angel

"Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?" "And the I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness" Matt. 7:22-23

Many: the majority of


songbird8... all of the people you listed on your post are documented false teachers. I woud highly recommend you examine there doctrine in light of scripture.

I too was once like you... I believed these people were annointed of God. KrispyKritter




Post edited to remove names listed. Smearing or judging was NEVER INTENDED!!

This thread resulted in a question regarding 'manifest sons of god'

The original purpose and intent was only to encourage people to pray for THE PASSION AND SUPPORT WHATEVER GOD WANTS TO DO WITH IT!!! TO PRAY HIS WILL AND NOTHING ELSE.

An awesome review about The PASSION was posted that Rick Joyner had written. hence, flaming responses referring to the manifest sons of god thing.

GOD AND GOD ALONE KNOWS THE HEART!!!

[keeotee]

Anyone recall the story of Noah being swallowed by the whale?



Oh wait just a minute some of you are saying - it wasn't Noah, it was Jonah. Then you make my point! Who told you so or did you read it for yourself in the Bible?


Listen.... seek God and do not seek what I call the "paranormal" of God.

I will warn you all of a group called the Remnant of the Table. Beware of them too.

Best to know God and His Word. It is only going to get worse.

And you best beware of your feelings. Much is meant to capture your feelings and that is why it is so persuasive. Nevermind your feelings.

Best to know the Word of God.

It is Biblical to question what anyone says against the Word of God.

I was listening to a minister not long ago on tv. Throughout the entire sermon she many times repeated the phrase "whatsoever you say you shall receive". Now, she referred to 1 John for this verse. Of course I had a problem with this. It is what you ask - not what you say.

Words have meaning. I'll give an example.

I would like to say you all a question. Please do not say me to explain. If I ask something wrong, then please just ask so.

I imagine the above paragraph caused you to pause. You see, "ask" and "say" were switched in the above paragraph. They are not the same word nor do they have the same meaning. And when you switch them, you change things!

Now, if we say, whatsoever you "say" you receive, rather than whatsoever you "ask", then we place God in a position of answering us according to our dictates - because you see - we have said it! God is sovereign, we are not. God dictates, we do not.

Now I am sure some would argue this point with me and call it a minor difference. I would disagree. If God has inspired the word "ask" and not the word "say, then how should we dare change it? There are more ramifications to changing that word than just the one I mentioned. And therefore I believe caution is the word for the day in which we live!

Do you see just how subtle things can really be! Of course some will argue that she meant nothing by it. II don't believe that. She said it too many times to eb a mistake.

I once heard someone in a chat room ask if anyone was familiar with such and such theology? I had never heard the word before. He went on to explain that it was the belief that our prayers changed God! Hogwash. I told him to take his theology that was straight from hell and leave. Not long ago, and this was several years after this experience I heard somoeone on the radio explain this theology in it's fullest and what it meant. I was right on back then. You see, I knew what the Bible says and compared it to God's Word. But what this guy was saying was very subtle.

Best to know the Word of God!

[seeker42]

As in most things, Krispy is right on the money ( & several others). Thank God for those with discernment.

The idea that Rick Joyner was not part of KCF is simply ridiculous. I know because I saw him at KCF, and I bought his tapes from KCF, and I had reports at the time from KCF.

He may be able to say that he was not part of KCF because he may not have been on any of the legal paperwork. But that is where he taught, and ministered, and healed, and prophecied, and was rebuked for prophecying in some cases.

It would not make any difference in anycase, since Joyner was mentored by Paul Cain (and most of KCF top leaders were). But to read that Joyner is stating that – implying a level of distance between himself and KCF is sad.

Joyner and the KCF people have not disappeared. They have only moved. Many of them are working with C. Peter Wagner and WoF leaders.

IN the 80s, there was controversy over the doctrines of KCF including Joyner. Joyner and others did not repent once confronted. It was a very temporary and weak apology, and then the KCF leaders went back and re-doubled their efforts...and their bad theology.

I encourage all to take a look at the following sources, some in HTML, some in PDF


http://www.banner.org.uk/contents.html


http://www.banner.org.uk/kcp/kcp-gruen.html


http://www.banner.org.uk/kcp/kcp-Vintage-Metro.pdf

Joyner believes that he receives visions from God that take precedence over the Bible. His books are monuments to heresy. He believes that Christians will be Joel’s Army that takes revenge on the World through the organizational leadership of those involved in the Dominionist/Kingdom Now theology.

The Problem is not that Joyner teaches that we can each become Christed and Divine as Jesus (which is a New Age blasphemous doctrine). The Problem is that this view – accurately called the Manifested Sons of God [Because those who become Divine are manifesting their own “Sonship” [god-hood] as Jesus did] – is only One of the Many theological falsehoods that Rick Joyner promotes.

One of the characteristics of end-times deception is that those who are being deceived, are actively participating in their own self-deception. They will not be able to claim that they were unaware. It was simply that they did not evaluate Teachers according to the Word of God (Bible), and they were seduced by teachers who were tickling itching ears.

Their followers are those who are always seeking, “I Timothy 3:7 ...always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.
8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth--men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected.”

People do go from superficial levels of deception...to much deeper levels. The nature of the deception is that it is of a “participatory” nature. It corrodes the will, and actually seduces people into alliances with spirits that have not been tested according to the Bible.

What is required to come out of this is actually true repentance. This turns out to be a stumbling block in many cases, because while people are willing to admit that they make mistakes, it is never quite viewed as being on the level of something to “repent” from. And to whatever extent this is true, this is what forms the spiritual stronghold in their lives that the Spiritual Enemy can then use to build on – in that person’s life.


Seeker

:): :confused

[BarbT]

Great post, Seeker. :):

Krispy's report about Joyner's denial that Jesus rose from the dead caught my eye. On that point alone we can know we should have nothing to do with him. There's enough leaven in that teaching to raise every batch of bread dough on earth. ;):

[David Mark]

It's nice to see a civilized thread.

To me, it's a sign of good character in all of you to be able to separate what a man teaches from the man himself.

It makes what you have to say, more readable.

Well done.

Dave.

[lighthouse]

http://watch.pair.com/rain.html



THE LATTER RAIN REVIVAL



Modern Prophets have received "new revelations" of the end-time which, until now, have not been understood by the Church. Truly, a "New Breed" of Apostles and Prophets is being raised up who will assume their end-time role of leading the Church to take dominion and to execute God’s judgments in the world. Vineyard Ministries Apostle, Jack Deere, believes that the two witnesses in Revelation 11 may very well be Kansas City Prophets, Paul Cain and Bob Jones.(1) Says Paul Cain:

"God is raising up a new standard, a new banner if you will, that’s going to radically change the expression, the understanding of Christianity in our generation…God has invited us to have a role in establishing this NEW ORDER of Christianity…God is offering to this generation something He has never offered to any other generation… Beware lest OLD ORDER brethren rob you and steal this hope from you!(2)

Bob Jones has received special revelation about this new hope:

"I have called the best of every blood line in earth unto this generation…I have elected to bring them forth in this generation…THE ELECT GENERATION…even the bloodline of Paul…of David…of Peter, James and John…They will even be superior to them in heart, stature and love for me’…Your children will possess the spirit without measure…They will move into things of the supernatural that no one has ever moved in before…coming into the DIVINE NATURE of Jesus Christ…a Church that has reached the full maturity of the GODMAN! This generation…is going to see the beginning of this WORLD WIDE NEW ORDER."(3)

Are you having difficulty discerning or receiving this "new revelation"? Then perhaps you have been interpreting your Bible in the "old way" -- comparing Scripture with Scripture, studying diligently to account for every jot and tittle and being careful to rightly divide the Word of truth. If this describes you, then you belong to the "Old Generation" which will not enter in to "possess the land" in the Latter Rain Revival. You may even be a member of a denominational church with its dogmatic confession of faith and statement of doctrine. These legalistic forms will be relics of the past in the up and coming "Postdenominational Church." Paul Cain advises that you "dump all that carnal stuff" (doctrine) and listen to what the "spirit" is saying to the churches through the Latter Rain Prophets and Apostles, who are dispensing many "new, sacred truths."

Now, back to your Bible study. In your Bible you will want to change the book of "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" to "The Manifestation of the Sons of God." That’s right, we are not to be looking for the "coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering unto Him." Nope. That would be an "escapist mentality" to be repented of at once if we would be Overcomers. Instead, we should be looking forward to the glorification of the Corporate Church, which will become perfect and immortal here on earth before the Second Coming. In fact, as Jesus comes "spiritually and invisibly" to His Church, He will actually "incarnate" the Corporate Body and reveal Himself to the world through miraculous signs and wonders performed by the "Manifest Sons of God."

This great end-time Company is really the "Manchild" of Revelation 12 which will rule the nations with a rod of iron. (You will need to replace Israel with the Church in this passage.) Yes, this end-time Church is also the prophetic fulfillment of the dreadful army in Joel 2, which is God’s agent of judgment to cleanse the earth of evil during the "times of restitution." (You will find this army also in Revelation 9!) Since the Manifest Sons of God are "the Christ," they will be putting all things under their (oops!) His feet, including the "old order" brethren.

Are you wondering by what authority the modern Prophets and Apostles presume to confer this Divine Right upon themselves and their followers? Not to worry! Paul Crouch, President of Trinity Broadcasting Network, has provided the following exegesis of Jesus’ parable:

"Read the parable of the Wheat and the Tares in Matthew 13:24-30 and you will see that at the end of this age the "ANGELS" are sent forth to remove evil from the earth. That word "ANGELS" also means messengers. So God may use some of us to finish up the work of this age."(4)

Those who would be chosen as the elect Manifest Sons of God by the modern Apostles and Prophets, must first repent of their old divisive attitude of separation from error. Christ cannot incarnate a divided church and for this reason we will need to be delivered from our narrow doctrinal point of view and join the ecumenical crowd on the Broad Way. It matters not that the blood of the martyrs was shed contending for the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Those who persist in being contentious about doctrine may join them when the great "revival" arrives circa A.D. 2000.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Over 50 years ago, William Branham, George Warnock, Paul Cain and others attempted to introduce Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God teachings into the Pentecostal movement. In 1949, however, the Assemblies of God officially rejected the Latter Rain/ Manifest Sons of God doctrine as "heresy." The cult went underground but surfaced again in the 1960’s as the Manchild Company. Disregarding the Assemblies of God decision, Paul Cain, the Kansas City Prophets and Vineyard Ministries have subsequently reintroduced and successfully established this false doctrine in the Pentecostal churches.

The Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God doctrine "involved a man-child elite group of Overcomers taking dominion over all nations and reigning in the heavenlies while overseeing drastic judgment on all who remained in the 'old generation' -- i.e., the denominational churches! The Latter-Rain teachings promised a Second Pentecost outpouring to empower this elite group, and to incarnate the Christ within them to the degree that they will become perfect and invincible, even to the overthrow of heavenly powers."(5)

Today, few recall the controversy surrounding Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God doctrines fifty years ago and their repudiation by the Church. Of necessity, they are now camouflaged and Christians must have an accurate understanding of Scripture to discern these counterfeit winds of doctrine. Charismatic churches are well-established in Latter Rain doctrine and Evangelical churches are currently being indoctrinated via numerous parachurch organizations and movements. Latter Rain teachings include: Kingdom Now/Dominion Theology, Progressive Revelation, Revival/Harvest, Joel’s Army, Replacement Theology, Post-Millennial Eschatology, Signs and Wonders, Territorial Warfare, Ecumenism, Restoration of Apostles and Prophets, Jubilee/Feast of Tabernacles, and the Post-denominational Church.

GNOSTICISM

Latter Rain doctrine is a modern version of the classic heresy of Gnosticism, which taught that a spiritual elite possessed "hidden knowledge" of the divine realm which placed their personal revelations, spiritual experiences, and private interpretation of Scripture above the ordinary revelation of God’s Word. In Latter Rain doctrine, Pentecost was the "former rain" or outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the Church must yet receive a second Holy Spirit visitation. At this time, the Sons of God will be glorified and manifested to all as they establish the Kingdom on earth before Jesus Christ returns bodily. Latter Rain prophets are now preparing multitudes for this transformation. In a 1991 program entitled "Manifested Sons of God," Morris Cerullo flattered his audience with the following blasphemy,

"You represent all that God is and all that God has...Jesus was the visible expression of God. Jesus was the Son of the Living God. Now, who are you? Sons of God…everyone say it. What is working inside of us is the manifestation. When you look at me, you are looking at Jesus…To see Jesus was to see God. To see me is to see Jesus. Jesus knew who He was. Don’t you think it is about time we know who we are?"(6)

Benny Hinn fills convention centers worldwide preaching a similar message, which exalts the creature rather than the Creator, and induces spiritual pride:

"This spirit-man within me is a God-man. Say after me, he’s born of heaven, he’s a super-being…Say I’m born of heaven - God-man. I’m a God-man. I’m a sample of Jesus. I’m a super being. Say it! Say it! Who’s a super being? I walk in the realm of the supernatural. Get the spirit-man renewed…when he’s strong, he’ll hold off sickness…you want to prosper? Money will be falling on you from left, right and center. God will begin to prosper you, for money always follows righteousness…Say after me, I hold my destiny."(7)

Thus, whole congregations are bewitched with the prospect of unleashing their potential as ‘Godmen’ in the approaching "Latter Rain Revival." This predicted restoration is an outgrowth of Replacement Theology which appropriates to the Church the promises of restoration which God gave to Israel, specifically Joel 2:23 and Hosea 6:3. James 5:7 simply states that the Church must patiently wait for the coming of the Lord as the husbandman waits for the "latter rain" to receive the full harvest. The saints will then reign with Christ, as seen in Revelation 19. Neither Daniel, Matthew 24, Thessalonians nor Revelation mention a great Christian revival, but characterize the period before the Second Coming as a perilous time of great deception, paganism, apostasy from the faith and persecution of the saints.

In I John 4:1-3, Christians are enjoined to "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." However, there is a common theme in many of the new revelations that those who resist the "new move of God" as unscriptural are lukewarm, immature or even divisive members of the Body. The following prophecy by Gwen Shaw, President of End-Time Handmaidens, is typical of this attitude:

"If you can’t think in a new way, if you can’t accept what I am going to do, you will burst. You will not be able to accept the expansion of this new wine. This new wine shall cause many to expand in their understanding of the ways of God. Because some are not equipped, and some are not prepared, and because of their indifference and their critical spirit, their wineskins shall burst."(8)

Those in authority who indiscriminately censure believers for questioning new revelations are interfering with an important step in the biblical process of testing prophecy. Yet throughout the Latter Rain move, leaders have scarcely, if at all, encouraged the church to be like the noble Bereans in Acts 17 who "searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Rather, they commonly protest that any objection to the new revelations is of a judgmental spirit or a personal attack on the prophets. These rash assumptions prevent all honest discussion concerning the doctrinal bases for assumed "new" revelations. Paul Cain even advised his audience to wait until they get to heaven to examine his exposition of the ‘Manchild Company,’ which would never stand the test of Scripture:

"…I know some of you are going to disagree with this. Don’t you even stop to disagree. Revelation 12:5. If you disagree, just file it in ‘miscellaneous’ and check it out. And don’t bother with it; when we get to heaven we’ll check it out and you’ll find out I’m right…"(9)

NEW AGE PARALLELS

However inconsistent it may be with the Word of God, Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God eschatology agrees on every point with the New Age Movement’s anticipation of the exaltation of mankind to godhood and the establishment of a New World Order. The following appraisal of Latter Rain theology by New Age Unity pastor, Rev. Earnest Ramsey was cited in Constance Cumbey’s book, A Planned Deception, The Staging of a New Age Messiah,

"Rev. Ernest Ramsey, an associate pastor at Unity's Kansas City's Founder's Church, Unity on the Plaza, is an enthusiastic follower of the Alice Bailey and Benjamin Creme teachings. In his Research Report #2, he tells of something he was led to by a spirit guide - what he terms 'Neo-Pentecostalism.' An aberrant branch of Pentecostalism, this is more commonly known as the 'Manifest Sons of God.' That movement is also referred to as 'Sonship' or 'Overcomers.' Ramsey concludes based on even less evidence than I have personally collected that this is part of the New Age Movement.

"Ramsey's work for his organization, 'Synthesis Fellowship,' first came to my attention in early 1983. His major report, entitled "An Evolutionary Basis For The Reappearance of the Christ and his Executives, the Masters of Wisdom" was inspired by Benjamin Creme's appearance and speech at Unity on the Plaza in Kansas City, Missouri. . . The most interesting section of Ramsey's report dealt with 'Neo-Pentecostalism.' Ramsey spent a semester at one of the Neo-Pentecostal or Manifest Sons of God seminaries (in upstate New York). . . Already familiar with the Alice Bailey writings, he was amazed to see that there was a branch of Pentecostalism that embraced the same teachings -- albeit using sometimes different terminology.

"Like those seeking the 'Age of Aquarius' these people too were seeking a 'New Age.' Like the other New Agers, these people taught that 'The Christ' was an anointing - not necessarily one man. They taught that Jesus was a pattern son who was to be a sign of something even greater to come - the 'Manifestation of the Sons of God.' They too believed the earth was to be cleansed of evil. And chillingly like the other New Agers, they believed they were to be 'God's' instruments to do such cleansing. The New Agers believed they were gods. The Manifest Sons of God likewise taught that if one accepted their 'new revelation' that they themselves would actually become Christ at the time of the unveiling or manifestation of the Sons of God."(10)

[lighthouse]

Other prominent New Age leaders have openly expressed the intention of their movement to infiltrate the Christian Church in order to introduce their esoteric teachings and to "draw away disciples after themselves." In The Unfinished Animal: The Aquarian Frontier and the Evolution of Consciousness, Theodore Rosak revealed that, "Charismatic congregations in main-line churches are entry points into the Aquarian frontier."(11) Alice Bailey, Theosophist and mother of the modern New Age Movement, revealed an ingenious plan in her 1957 volume, The Externalisation of the Hierarchy. Cabalist agents would infiltrate the Christian Church to modify its message, while adapting it as a vehicle for the Universal Religion of the 21st Century.

"…The church movement, like all else, is but a temporary expedient and serves but a transient resting place for the evolving life. Eventually, there will appear the Church Universal, and its definite outlines will appear towards the close of this century… This Church will be nurtured into activity by the Christ and His disciples when the outpouring of the Christ principle, the TRUE second Coming has been accomplished… the Christian church in its many branches can serve as a nucleus through which world illumination may be accomplished… the church as a teaching factor should take the great basic doctrines and (shattering the old forms in which they are expressed and held) show their true and inner spiritual significance. The prime work of the church is to teach, and teach ceaselessly, preserving the outer appearance in order to reach the many who are accustomed to church usages. Teachers must be trained; Bible knowledge must be spread; the sacraments must be mystically interpreted, and the power of the church to heal must be demonstrated."(12) (Italics added)

ANOTHER PENTECOST?

In Latter Rain doctrine, paramount emphasis is placed on the proposed Year of Jubilee A.D. 2000, when all nations and a "united" Church will celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. The prophetic fulfillment of this Feast is said to occur prior to the return of Christ. Latter Rain prophets claim that this will also be a "Second Pentecost," since the first was ‘incomplete.’ Christ will then appear in the midst of His people and be incarnated in his Body, filling the Corporate "Christ" with His glory, which will then be poured out on all flesh.

"There is another realm of spiritual experience typified in scripture by the Feast of Tabernacles. Until we understand and partake of this feast, as we have both Passover and Pentecost, we will never fulfill our destiny and calling. We must discover the meaning of the Feast of Tabernacles and ‘celebrate’ it along with Passover and Pentecost…What God did among Jews in Jerusalem, He is going to do among humanity and worldwide. Pentecost will come to maturity in the feast of Tabernacles."(13)

This Latter Rain "Second Pentecost" during Tabernacles is suggestive of the "Planetary Pentecost" preached by Barbara Marx Hubbard as the peaceful "alternative to Armageddon." At this time, a "quantum leap" in the evolution of mankind will occur as revealed to her by "the Christ": "At the moment of cosmic contact, I will appear to you both through inner experience and through external communication on your mass media." Says Ms. Hubbard, it will be a time when "the divisions of the religions would be over…We would each know that God is within us…If all who feel we are connected to each other, to nature and to God join in a planetary Pentecost, we shall be transformed in this lifetime. I believe in the peaceful second Coming."(14) Earnest Ramsey perceived virtually no difference at all between the New Age Tabernacles/Year of Jubilee and the Latter Rain interpretation of these celebrations.

"Ernest Ramsey excitedly pointed out in his report that [the Manifest Sons] had a teaching which indeed did parallel the Aquarian teaching of the Age of Aquarius -- the Old Testament 'Year of Jubilee' as well as the 'Feast of Tabernacles.' The Year of Jubilee paralleled the redistribution of the world's wealth. The Feast of Tabernacles was the equivalent of the coming together of the World's peoples and varied religions under one tent or tabernacle -- the equivalent of the New Agers' long-awaited 'New World Religion.'"(15)

Coincidental with the Latter Rain/New Age agenda to celebrate Tabernacles in the proposed Year of Jubilee, the Vatican Central Committee is coordinating with other Catholic Rites and church conferences, such as Episcopal, Anglican Communion, World Lutheran Federation, World Reformed Alliance, Methodist World Council, the World Council of Churches for a celebration of the Great Jubilee "which will take place simultaneously in the Holy Land, in Rome and in the local Churches throughout the world."(16) In ancient Israel, the 50 year Jubilee celebration freed all slaves, canceled all debts, and restored properties to the original owners. Pope John Paul II, New Age/New World Order planners and Pat Robertson (17) of the Christian Broadcasting Network have all called for the worldwide redistribution of wealth and cancellation of debt in 2000 A.D.--severe measures that would precipitate the collapse of secular economies which have not planned for this adjustment.

Concurrent with Rome’s initiative, International Christian Embassy Jerusalem is promoting "Taste of Tabernacles" celebrations in Christian churches and parachurch ministries worldwide. Johann Luckhoff, Director of ICEJ, was invited by New Age advocate, Jay Gary, to speak at the ecumenical A.D. 2000 Global Conference on World Evangelism in Seoul, South Korea in 1989. Says Luckoff, "One of the reasons I was invited to Korea was because the organizers of the GCOWE hope to have the next gathering in Jerusalem at the end of the millennium. That should be quite an event." George Warnock would agree. In 1951, Warnock forged a definitive doctrine for the Latter Rain Movement in his book, The Feast of Tabernacles, and specifically noted that the "Christ should visit the saints…and minister his life ‘in secret’ before He is openly manifest."(18)

Zechariah 14:16 states that the nations will go to Jerusalem annually to worship the King and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles, after the return of Jesus Christ. Which "Christ" will the Latter Rain prophets worship?

"We must not miss this point: the replacement theology of the Manifest Sons of the Latter Rain, which New Ager Ramsey called ‘Neo-Pentecostalism,’ has brought the Age of Aquarius into the Church under the guise of the Feast of Tabernacles and the Year of Jubilee."(19)

NEW REVELATION

To defend their unbiblical exposition of many doctrines, Latter Rain prophets and apostles claim that "new" teachings, prophecies and interpretations of Scripture are progressively being unveiled which have heretofore not been revealed to the Church. Even though such visions, prophecies and revelations are unsupported by the Word of God, they are nonetheless canonized as doctrine because they were accompanied by spiritual experiences. However, Hebrews 1:1,2 states, "God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son." Since Jesus Christ is the Word of God, I Corinthians 14:29 contains the provision that all prophecy in the church be tested and judged by its conformity to Scripture. Isaiah 8:20 declares, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

In 1993, Charismatic Pastor John Hinkle prophesied nationally that on Thursday, June 9, God would remove the evil from the earth. That this was a false prophecy should have been apparent to believers from the beginning, for Scripture is clear that evil will not only remain in the world, but will increase before Jesus Christ returns. Deuteronomy 18:22 states, "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously." False prophets in Israel were to be stoned. Mercifully, the church is to judge prophets and reject those who do not speak according to sound doctrine or whose word is not specifically fulfilled. However, Christian leaders did not reject Hinkle’s prophecy as false but dissembled, claiming that an earthquake in South America or unknown event in the invisible realm fulfilled its conditions. Could not the last rationalization be made for all prophecies that default?

"New" revelations extend beyond the parameters of God’s Word and give opportunity for false teachings to be introduced to the Church. The mischief that ensues from the acceptance of false prophecy is considerable. The transition from John Hinkle’s prophecy to Paul Crouch’s outrageous statement that Christians will soon remove the tares from the wheat was subtle. We have yet to see the damage that will result from Pat Robertson’s astonishing claim in a 1984 televised sermon that, "God spoke through a word of prophecy in May 1968, and said, ‘I have chosen you to usher in the coming of My Son.’"(20) Robertson also announced then that the Christian Broadcasting Network will provide worldwide coverage of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ from the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem.

Which "coming" is precarious, for it seems that more than one "Christ" is presently expected to return. One researcher has pondered Pat Robertson’s prophecy:

"I can’t see any way out of his cameras melting if he attempted such a thing with the true coming. II Thessalonians 1:7,8 describes that extraordinary day, ‘…when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire.’ II Peter 3:10 states, ‘But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.’"(21)

It is unlikely that Pat Robertson will televise the Lord Jesus Christ in His glorious return from heaven. Perchance it may be "that Wicked One, even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders."

[lighthouse]

ANOTHER CHRIST

New Agers have studied Bible prophecy carefully, especially Matthew 24, and have documented plans to technically stage a "Second Coming," which would be acceptable to Christians, New Agers, et al. David Bay, Director of Old Paths Ministries, says that these plans have been published in a book entitled, The Armageddon Script, by New Age leader Peter LeMesurier. However, before that event, there will be another supernatural, psychic occurrence:

"Pope John Paul II is anxiously awaiting a potent world-wide Marian Vision. (World) chaos is to precede this vision. This vision will validate the global reign of Pope John Paul II and will establish him as the ultimate spiritual Judge of the Planet… the purpose of this super-natural vision is to validate the Roman Catholic church as the only true church and this Pope as God's ordained leader.’…According to Vatican official, Malachi Martin, author of The Keys of This Blood, this event will be most powerfully psychic. The force accompanying this vision will be so powerful it will literally bring the normal activity of the world to a standstill. Men will be so moved that their ‘consciences will cry out with fear.’ This vision will produce an ‘engulfing chaos, along with misdirection, and disequilibruim in human affairs. In other words, the entire population of the world will experience a simultaneous changing of their minds…The vision will be preceded by either a loud sound, a bright light...

"These effects are identical to those which New Age writers have predicted during the appearance of Anti-Christ… (1) A loud sound will be heard world-wide which will herald the coming of Maitreya, the Christ. Prompted by this sound, people will be aware of his coming on three distinct levels: Spiritual, physical, and emotional. (Alice Bailey's The Externalisation Of The Hierarchy, p. 173.) (2) ‘...When Lord Maitreya appears, he will appear as different beings to different people… Thus, he will show that he is all things to all people.’ (Bill Lambert, speaking at Seminar, ‘Possible and Probable Events In The Future,’ Theosophical Society, Boston, Massachusetts, August 8, 1991). (3) His three-dimensional image will appear over all nations of the earth simultaneously. He will speak to each ethnic group in their own language. We know this is technologically possible with computer images via telecommunication satellite. (Constance Cumbey, Hidden Dangers Of The Rainbow, p. 24-25).

"We also know that Satan could produce this phenomenon by his Super-Natural power alone. New Age writers clearly state, however, there will be a mixing of super-natural phenomena and advanced technology when the staging of the Anti-Christ occurs… New Age Leaders boldly state in their Plan to use the special effects of modern TV and movies to persuade the people of the world that Maitreya is who he claims to be. ‘...the use of such special effects should not be ruled out on this occasion. The world's news-media can be counted upon to do the rest.’ (The Armageddon Script, Peter Lemesurier, St. Martin's Press, 1981, p. 236) The New Age book, The Messianic Legacy, states that the only way the Messiah could be super-naturally staged in all aspects that Christians are expecting would be through the use of "Hollywood."(22)

True believers will meet the Lord "in the air" (not on earth) and He will return with them to earth, not as a "peacemaker," but to destroy the nations gathered at Armageddon. The unthinkable will become "religiously correct" when Evangelical and Charismatic shepherds lead an apostate Church in the worship of a false Christ. Revelation 13:15 further states that, "as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

JOEL'S ARMY

In view of this prospect, an alarming "new revelation" taught by the modern prophets is that the end-time Church is God’s army in Joel 2, which will judge the Old Order and bring in the Kingdom. In Prophecy Today, Clifford Hill explained, "This teaching is part of what is known as ‘dominion theology’ which teaches that an elite army of ‘overcomers’ will either destroy or subdue all the enemies of Christ until they eventually gain power and authority throughout the world. The government of the nations will be upon their shoulders and when all the secular authorities, governments, princes and kings have finally submitted to them, Christ will return and they will present the kingdom to him."(23) According to Rick Joyner, Christianity must be destabilized and redefined by modern apostles, prophets, etc. to finalize Alice Bailey’s plan to "take the great basic doctrines and shatter the old forms in which they are expressed and held."(24)

"What is about to come upon the earth is not just a revival, or another awakening; it is a veritable revolution. The vision was given in order to begin to awaken those who are destined to radically change the course, and even the very definition of Christianity. The dismantling of organizations and disbanding of some works will be a positive and exhilarating experience for the Lord’s faithful servants. A great company of prophets, teachers, pastors and apostles will be raised up with the spirit of Phineas…"(25)

To sanctify this Machiavellian plot, Jack Deere recasts Joel 2 in the context of Ezekiel 9: "When this army comes, He says it’s large and it’s mighty. It’s so mighty that there’s never been anything like it before…‘begin the slaughter and begin it in the temple and begin it with the elders, the leaders of my people.’ And they walk through the land and they start and they begin to slaughter and you know it’s already started with the biggest names in His household? He has already started the slaughter…and it is coming now among the Church."(26) Vineyard pastors James Ryle (Promise Keepers), John Arnott and Wes Campbell (Toronto Blessing) and prophets Bob Jones and Rick Joyner all report visions of "a bloody civil war" in the Church:

"James Ryle has had a similar vision. The Lord even showed him how the blue coats stand for the revelatory, the revelation, and the grey for grey matter, man's wisdom. And in this context the north fought the south and the south fought the north, and the south wanted to keep the people enslaved. They wanted their money. They wanted their keep the system going. And the north said ‘No! Freedom! Freedom!’ And they went into a terrible fight, and it was father against son, brother against brother, and a man's enemies were in his own house. And the angel said this: ‘There won't be a house that escapes weeping.’" (27)

Such prophecies do not edify the Church, but are inflammatory and undermine the true unity of believers for which Jesus prayed in John 17. Nevertheless, they give increased momentum to the program of New Age leaders such as Alice Bailey, who wrote, "The reorganization of the world’s religions…is for the new world religion."(28) Barbara Marx Hubbard divulged the real reason for the New Age mission, "There is an anti-evolutionary cadre of orthodox believers who focus on the limits of this life and the unworthiness of human nature. Now they would destroy our capacity to transcend…"(29)

She and other New Age leaders have estimated "that for planetary transformation to take place, up to one quarter of the inhabitants of the earth will have to be excised like a cancer." Given the animosity that has been generated by Latter Rain prophets toward Biblical Christianity and the affinity of this movement for warfare terminology, it is hard to resist the suspicion that the New Age/Latter Rain regime will be using a militant Church to accomplish this. Prophet Rick Joyner has even identified "Antichrist" as the traditional Church (30) and Jack Deere claims that modern prophets will execute the Tribulation judgments.

"You see why we're excited about someone like Paul Cain or Bob Jones coming on the scene? Or others that we've met…you know those two powerful witnesses in Revelation 11:3? You know what - they are first and foremost? They are prophets. He said they will prophesy for 1,260 days. He's going to end the last days just before His Son returns with a prophetic movement that will sweep the entire face of the earth and will eclipse anything we have ever seen before…the significance of these signs and wonders…But they don't just happen on the earth. They come because they are prayed for and they are predicted by God's people."(31)

It would be unwise to nonchalantly dismiss these claims as idle braggadocio. Paul Cain, Bob Jones, Rick Joyner and other Latter Rain/Manifest Sons of God proponents have paranormal experiences on a regular basis and have demonstrated occult powers.

"Bob Jones (KFC’s resident seer) is a man who claims to have five to six visions and revelations per day. We are talking about a man who thought he was a backslider when two days went by without a visitation from Jesus…Paul Cain…is called the ‘Terror of the Lord’…and has exhibited the ability to tell people the details of their lives, hidden sins and even things they have said in confidence to others. There have been reports of earthquakes and other natural disasters predicted by him…(and) power surges of electricity at places where he ministers." (32)

ANOTHER GOSPEL

False prophets preach "another gospel," which is not the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. Vineyard scholar Jack Deere has even admitted that he is not sure of the true gospel. In an interview, Deere told Robert Dean of Biblical Perspectives, "I used to be like you…thinking the gospel was simply justification by faith."(33) This spiritual advisor to John Wimber, late Director of Vineyard Ministries, added that the gospel would have to include works, such as healing and deliverance. This false gospel of works is leading a vast religious system into spiritual deception. Enchanted by signs and lying wonders and riding the ecumenical bandwagon, the Latter Rain/ Manifest Sons of God will be easily assimilated into the Mystery Religion revival foretold in Revelation 17. II Thessalonians 2:10-11 describes God’s judgment, which has already begun in this movement: "…because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

Gnostic doctrines are not a new revelations, as modern prophets tell us. Although they come in various expressions, they always contain the same lie the Serpent used to beguile Eve --"…then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods." Neither are Gnostic doctrines the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, but rather the false gospel of the "King over all the children of pride." This corrupt tree always bears evil fruit in the Church. "Gone is the understanding that we must be cross-bearers. The church now seeks adulation and quickly becomes a seed bed for pride, greed and power all under the guise of spiritual growth."(34)

There are few today who are willing to take the low seat at the Wedding Feast. Often we must look to the message of the old generation (of whom the world was not worthy) for inspiration to seek a better resurrection and an heavenly country. Amy Carmichael, missionary to India in the early 1900s, scorned the vain imaginations of a worldly Church and would not glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. She wrote –

HAST THOU NO SCAR?

Hast thou no scar?
No hidden scar on foot, or side, or hand?
I hear thee sung as mighty in the land,
I hear them hail thy bright ascendant star,
Hast thou no scar?

Hast thou no wound?
Yet, I was wounded by the archers, spent.
Leaned me against the tree to die, and rent
By ravening beasts that compassed me, I swooned:
Hast thou no wound?

No wound? No scar?
Yet, as the Master shall the servant be,
And pierced are the feet that follow Me;
But thine are whole. Can he have followed far
Who has no wound nor scar?




ENDNOTES:

"Joel’s Army," cassette tape, 1990, Vineyard Ministries.
Vineyard Prophecy Conference, 1989.
Ibid.
PTL Newsletter, March, 1994, Paul Crouch.
Looking Beyond Toronto, "The Source and Goal of the Second Pentecost," Banner Ministries.
"Joel’s Army," Discernment Ministries.
Ibid.
"End-Time Handmaidens Magazine," Gwen Shaw, (P.O. Box 447, Jasper, AK 72641), June, 1995, p. 5.
Prophetic Power and Passion Conference, Paul Cain, Christ Chapel, Florence, Alabama, August, 1995.
Constance Cumbey, A Planned Deception, as cited in "Constance Cumbey’s New Age Monitor," Aug.-Dec. 1987.
Theodore Rosak, Unfinished Animal: The Aquarian Frontier and the Evolution of Consciousness.
Alice Bailey, The Externalization of the Hierarchy, 1957.
"Beyond Pentecost," Robin McMillan and Steve Thompson Morning Star Journal," Vol. 4 No. 3, 1994, pp. 42-44, 48.
"National Catholic Reporter," Oct. 19, 1990.
Constance Cumbey, A Planned Deception,(Pointe Publishers, Inc., East Detroit, Mich.), 1985.
"Cardinal Etchegaray Opens Meeting on Jubilee," Vatican Information Service, Vatican City, February 15, 1996.
"Perspective," Pat Robertson, January/February, 1981.
George Warnock, The Feast of Tabernacles, 1951, (Springfield, MO, Bill Britton), pp. 108.
"Apostasy and the Year 2000," Year 2000: Tabernacles, Jubilee, Alabama Discernment Ministries.
Sermon on Satellite Network Seminar, Word of Faith Outreach Center, Dallas, TX, Dec. 9-12, 1984.
Alabama Discernment Ministries, July 27, 1996.
"Staged Appearance of Anti-Christ," Cutting Edge Radio Program, David Bay, Old Path Ministries, Grace Baptist Church, 35 Elizabeth St., Attleboro, MA 02703-2030 http://www.cuttingedge.org/ce1004.html
"Prophecy Today," Vol. 7, No. 1 Eng.
"Kansas City Prophets," Prophecy Today, Clifford Hill.
Rick Joyner, The Harvest.
It Sounds Like the Mother of All Battles, Jack Deere, VMI, Joel’s Army, 1990.
Toronto Airport Vineyard, James Ryle, 1994.
Alice Bailey, The Externalisation of the Hierarchy, pp.453-454.
"Spiritual Counterfeits Journal," Volume 19:2/3, 1994, p. 47.
Weighed and Found Wanting, Bill Randles, p. 64.
"Joel’s Army," op. cit.
Weighed and Found Wanting, pp. 94, 98.
"Biblical Perspectives," Vol. III, No. 4, July-Aug, 1990.

[lighthouse]

http://users.stargate.net/~ejt/corpchr1.htm


Cumbey continues her eye-opener with this revelation:


"Ernest Ramsey excitedly pointed out in his report that [the Manifest Sons] had a teaching which indeed did parallel the Aquarian teaching of the Age of Aquarius - the Old Testament 'Year of Jubilee' as well as the 'Feast of Tabernacles.' The Year of Jubilee paralleled the redistribution of the world's wealth. The Feast of Tabernacles was the equivalent of the coming together of the world's peoples and varied religions under one tent or tabernacle - the equivalent of the New Agers' long-awaited 'New World Religion.' . . . ."
We must not miss this point: the Replacement Theology of the Manifest Sons of the Latter Rain has brought the Age of Aquarius into the Church under the guise of the Feast of Tabernacles and the Year of Jubilee.

********
SO FULFILLS BIBLE PROPHECY OF THE ONE WORLD RELIGION UNDER THE AC

[lighthouse]

http://www.cephasministry.com/apostles_new_church.html



THE MANIFESTED SONS OF GOD


The body of Christ coming to spiritual maturity will be able to defeat death itself. This teaching became known as the "Manifest Sons of God." Taking childish cues from Paul's teaching in Romans eight and misunderstanding them, they suggested that a company of overcoming believers "the sons of God" will be manifested upon the earth with never dying spiritual bodies before the return of Christ. This would have to be the ultimate in dominion teaching.

Bishop Earl Paulk has stated the Manifest Sons teaching very clearly without ever using that unpopular term. Listen to his unmistakable teaching: "Jesus Christ, as the first-fruit of the Kingdom, began the work of conquering death on an individual basis, but we, as His church, will be the ones to complete the task. Jesus said (Matthew 28:18), "all power is given unto me in heaven and in earth," and the church today has that same power. Death will not be conquered by Jesus returning to earth. It will be conquered when the church stands up boldly and says, "We have dominion over the earth." [5]

Obviously the church has not yet matured to the place of defeating death. Bishop Paulk counsels Christians not to accept death unless they get a specific revelation from God otherwise.[6]

There is a companion truth that often accompanies the Manifested Sons teaching namely the birthing by the church of a corporate Christ. This corporate Christ is said to be a fusing together of the spiritual Christ within His many membered body upon the earth. The end-time glorious church is supposed to give birth to this corporate Christ. Though it is not always stated this view assumes and some teach (not all) that the literal physical resurrected Jesus will not need to return as such. Rather His second coming will happen when He is spiritually incarnated into his church which will then be able to conquer death itself. This teaching has been expressed in various ways.

"Jesus was God in the flesh. We must be as He was in the world, even greater in volume and influence." [6]
"The completion of the incarnation of God in the world must be in His church...Jesus Christ is the firstfruit, but without tile ongoing harvest, tile incarnation will never be complete." [7]

"The living Word of God, Jesus Christ, was conceived in the womb of a virgin. The Word became flesh in the God-Man Jesus Christ (John 1:1). Likewise, tile Word of God must be made flesh in the Church in order for us to bear witness to the Kingdom which God has called us to demonstrate." [8]

"We are on earth as extensions of God to finish the work He began. We are the essence of God, His on-going incarnation in the world." [9] This is saying far more than the orthodox view that Christ indwells His Church by the Holy Spirit. The question arises: how can Jesus, with his current resurrected body in heaven, be incarnated into the church that is still upon the earth? Some have seen this problem and solve it by adjusting their Christology.

"He [Jesus] entered a higher realm of restoration and love by becoming an indwelling Spirit." [10]
We must oppose this view. Jesus has not become the Holy Spirit. It is rather the Holy Spirit who indwells the believer. The Resurrected Jesus is at the Father's right hand and in His glorified resurrected body He will return bodily to the earth. Obviously an indwelling spirit would not need to return from heaven.

It is on this basis that some Dominion teachers assert that Jesus can be an on-going incarnation of God in His body (church) upon the earth. Consequently scriptures pertaining to Christ's ruling on earth are often seen as referring the Church rather than Jesus. The Church is viewed as a kind of virgin Mary who must give birth to Jesus the indwelling spirit.

[lighthouse]

http://www.blessedquietness.com/journal/housechu/msogbomb.htm





DROPPING
THE BOMB
ON THE
MANIFEST
SONS OF GOD

By Our Correspondent





Regarding:
False Prophet and Pseudo Militarist-- Rick Joyner



Comment by Steve Van Nattan-- We have received information from a source in Canada on the Manifest Sons of God which ties all sorts of evil groups together. The implications are that the Vatican, the Branhamites, the Colorado Prayer Coalition, the Canadian Government, and many more entities have streamed together in preparation of conquest. Who is to be conquered is not entirely clear, but Bill Britton of Missouri long ago in the 1950s said that those who will not "enter beyond the veil" will be killed by the Manifest Sons of God, and he said they would enjoy themselves immensely. I have read his words in his book for myself. We thus drop the bomb and expose them.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHAT IS GOING ON IN COLORADO SPRINGS?

“…for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.” Matt. 10:26.

IS THE WORLD PRAYER CENTER AT COLORADO SPRINGS OF GOD OR IS IT ANOTHER SCHEME OF SATAN?

Colorado Springs, Colorado is the home of a 55,000 square foot, 5.5 million dollar World Prayer Center and is estimated to involve 50 million people in 120 countries around the world. http://www.texnews.com/1998/1999/religion/pray0130.html It was founded in September of 1998 by C. Peter Wagner, President of Global Harvest Ministries, and Ted Haggard pastor of New Life Church. New Life Church sits on a hill adjacent to the World Prayer Center but Global Harvest Ministries, the Wagner Institute for Practical Ministry and the Christian Information Center are situated within the Prayer Center itself.

The organization claims that electronic telecommunications were invented for the purpose of distributing important information to Christians throughout the world. The prayer center is also linked to other national prayer networks. Each national network center represents a nation and is in constant contact, by a computer system, with its designated country. A participating nation, reports to the National Prayer Network and the National Prayer Network reports to the World Prayer Center which in turn reports to its President, C. Peter Wagner. Wagner calls it a human network and of course he is the main coordinator of all activities.

Although co-founded with Ted Haggard, C. Peter Wagner, as president and commander-in-chief, gives the impression that the prayer center is his. Charisma News Service seemed to thinks so too.

In their February 16, 2000 issue, speaking of C. Peter Wagner, they refer to the world prayer center as his center.

“Evangelism in the 10/40 window is at an all-time high following years of sustained prayer, he says in “Global Prayer News,” the newsletter from his World Prayer Center.” http://www.charismanews.com/news.cgi?a=259&t=search.html

Haggard and Wagner each claim they were called to play a strategic role within the center. My review of this center, and the people involved with its substructures, brought me to the conclusion that it is based more on occult New Age thought than Biblical thought. They declare, the center is a trans-demoninational effort. This is the exact spelling from their site trans-demoninational. Are they revealing something here? Is it a demon organization that transcends the globe? Check it out their Internet site is found at www.wpccs.org/about_us.cfm . If this information has been changed others can vouch that it was indeed on the Internet as I report it here. This site also contains a picture of the World Prayer Center.

I am going to be examining the following aspects of the World Prayer Center.

It’s world prayer concept
It’s occult location
It’s founder’s Manifest Sons of God connection.
It’s New Age language
It’s Network structure





LONG ARTICLE I POSTED JUST THE START

[KrispyKritter]

I especially love the part about looking for the return of Christ (and people say this about us rapture folks too!) being of an "escapist mentality".

Ya know what? I got saved because I wanted to escape hell.

Anyone every read the Book of Revelation, and all the doom and judgement that is about to poured out on the earth in the tribulation? Well, I for one, would like to escape that too.

So call me an "escapist"! There is nothing wrong with that, and it does not make one more spiritual to want to be here for God's judgement. We were not saved in order to endure the wrath of God.

Escaping God's judgement is actually called "The Blessed Hope"!

songbird8... all of the people you listed on your post are documented false teachers. I woud highly recommend you examine there doctrine in light of scripture.

I too was once like you... I believed these people were annointed of God.

They are not.

[lighthouse]

http://www.cephas-library.com/evangelists/bob_jones_shepherd_rod.html



*************
Beware the New Prophets by Bill Randles describes the problems with this movement. He stated,
The re-emergence of the 'Latter Rain' heresy from proponents of the Toronto Blessing and the modern 'prophetic' movement is of immense danger. In this book, Bill Randles, an American Pentecostal pastor with a concern for biblical truth, takes the lid off this can of worms.
The 'Latter Rain' heresy emerged in Canada in the late 1940s. Throwing aside common-sense hermeneutics, certain passages of the Bible were used to insist on the idea that in the late 20th century, God would raise up an elite group of 'super-Christians' who would take the world for God.

The idea, sometimes referred to as 'the Manifested Sons of God', is that this church would become so glorified and powerful that 'we can bring back Christ to earth'. In many extremist circles, the 1980s were seen as the time when God restored prophets to the church, and the 1990s the era when God restored apostles, although, of course, the restorationists in the UK have been telling us that new apostles have been around since the 1970s. The leaders who are caught up in this heresy today include American 'prophets' Rick Joyner, Bob Jones, Rodney Howard-Browne, James Ryle, Bill Hamon, Earl Paulk and many leaders within the Vineyard movement. They flatter their listeners: 'You are the greatest generation of the church ever.' Whereas those who are not taken in so easily are bombarded with such gems as: 'God is a lot bigger than doctrine', 'God offends our minds to reach our hearts' and 'The church is so hung up on Bible study, they don't know Jesus'






********
See also: Manifest Sons of God in the Shepherd's Rod.

Also involved in their theology is Latter Rain Movement. Heretical movement popularized by Franklin Hall, William Branham, George Warnock, John Robert Stevens, etcetera. Elements of Latter Rain teachings are today being taught within certain renewal and revival movements. For a full description of the Latter Rain Movement go to:
http://watch.pair.com/rain.html

The Latter Rain Movement is considered to be one of today's most dangerous false teachings in the church, the movement's doctrines are taught and supported by a wide range of controversial teachers. They include Rick Joyner, C. Peter Wagner, Paul Cain, Cindy Jacobs, Bill Hamon, and countless others.

Another movement involved in Bob Jones's teachings is Kingdom Now Theology

[lighthouse]

The basic premise of Kingdom Theology is that man lost dominion over the earth when Adam and Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation in the Garden of Eden. God "lost control" of the earth to Satan at that time, and has since been looking for a "covenant people" who will be His "extension," or "expression," in the earth and take dominion back from Satan. This is to be accomplished through certain "overcomers" who, by yielding themselves to the authority of God's apostles and prophets for the Kingdom Age, will take control of the kingdoms of this world. These kingdoms are defined as all social institutions, such as the "kingdom" of education, the "kingdom" of science, the "kingdom" of the arts, and so on


*****
Most especially there is the "kingdom" of politics or government. This naturally implies the concentration of military and police power in the hands of those in control during the Kingdom Age. They are referred to as the "many-membered man child," whom Kingdom Theology adherents believe will be the fulfillment of Revelation 12:1-5: "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars....And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron


Those who hold to Kingdom Theology assume that the Church (some believe only a small group within the Church, called "overcomers"), under submission to the latter day apostles and prophets, is that man child, and that it has the responsibility to put down all rebellion and establish righteousness. This necessitates the utilization of supernatural power and the full implementation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This theory is based upon the idea that all authority in heaven and on the earth has been given to Jesus. Since believers are indwelt by the same Holy Spirit that indwelt Jesus, we have all authority in heaven and on the earth; we have the power to believe for and speak into existence things that are not, and thus we can bring about the Kingdom Age. The many-membered man child must take control of the earth before Jesus can return.






****
Notice that this idea, similar to that of mind science and other false religions, separates the anointing of "Christ" from Jesus and bestows it upon all who come into a place of certain knowledge and spiritual attainment. This is a heresy that is as old as the Church. It is rooted in the Greek school of philosophy known as Gnosticism

[lighthouse]

No Rapture

Critical to hard-core Kingdom Theology is the denial of "the Rapture" - the teaching that the Church will one day be caught up to meet the Lord in the air so that we will be with Him in Heaven when God's wrath is poured out upon the earth. This event is explained away as a feeling of rapture or excitement when the Lord returns to receive the Kingdom from our hands. In other words, everyone will be "caught up" emotionally when He returns.

****



The Church Has Failed

Another eschatological viewpoint of Kingdom Theology is that the Great Tribulation is seen not as a time when anti-Christ will reign and war against God's people, but rather a time of tribulation for the world brought about by God's judgment through His people. Anti-Christ, in fact, is considered by some not to be a person, or even a system of government, but a spirit of rebellion against God's constituted authority - the coming of Jesus in the flesh of the apostles and prophets, according to their interpretation of I John 4:2 and II John 7.
****

Since there will be no "Rapture," and no Second Coming of Jesus until the Kingdom has been established by the Church under the direction of the apostles and prophets, most Kingdom Theology adherents are mid- or post-millennialists: Jesus will come back after the millennium has begun or after it has been completed. Some are amillennialists, believing He will never come back personally, or that He already came back to His own generation, leaving the Church to take dominion over the earth. Thus they see the Church as having failed in what they consider its commission to take dominion over the kingdoms of the earth




*************. In order to demonstrate the Kingdom, the Church must not only be united under the apostles and prophets, but must be prosperous, having taken control of all the material wealth of the earth
**************



Whether immortal or not, it is generally agreed in Kingdom Theology that the overcomers must purge the earth of all evil influences. "Evildoers" must be converted or they will be punished and/or "destroyed from off the face of the earth." "Evildoers" have been variously described as drug pushers, murderers, child molesters, thieves, prostitutes, and other such "scum" that Jesus died for. It will interest the reader to learn, however, that for many who teach Kingdom Theology, the term "evildoer" applies to anyone who refuses to submit to God's authority (the latter day apostles and prophets). Those who do submit will be sealed with the "mark of God" in their foreheads, and will escape the coming judgment

[THE ABOVE IS SCARY, BUT IT FITS WITH WHAT THE AC WILL DO]

[lighthouse]

http://www.letusreason.org/Latrain1.htm




This quote is representative of the teaching “the doctrine of the Rapture was a great and effective ruse of the enemy to implant in the Church a retreat mentality ... already this yoke has been cast off by the majority in the advancing church, and it will soon be cast off by all.” (Rick Joyner, THE HARVEST 1989 /1990 revised booklet on pg.121)


WHEN THE RAPTURE DOES HAPPEN PEOPLE WILL NOT THINK IT IS OF GOD:cry

[lighthouse]

CONT...
The apostles and prophets would give blessings upon those whom bless, and curses upon those whom they curse. The power of their words would bring results. They will complete the conquest of the nations before Christ returns. The conquering will be done as “Joel's army “ a group of immortal beings that will bring judgment upon the ungodly and all who do not accept the authority of the NEW Apostles and prophets. The tribulation is replaced with manifestations of power executing Gods judgment through Joels army to cleanse the earth of the evil and bring order to establish his kingdom.

Those who go further into the different levels will achieve a certain degree of holiness under the direction of the apostles and prophets. They will overcome death, and will become immortal.


In Jewel Van der Merwe's book, Joel's Army, she quotes Earl Paulk a influential “Kingdom Now” pastor, he explains his application of Romans 8:19 “The last enemy to be conquered is death. Who will conquer it? A mature Church will come forth with the kind of authority and power that will be able to stand in the very face of Satan. When the Church reaches that level of maturity, God will be able to say, 'This generation of the Church does not need to die. She has reached a place of maturity. I will translate her because her maturity pleases Me.'“
*****



“Not only will they not have diseases, they will also not die. They will have the kind of imperishable bodies that are talked about in the 15th chapter of Corinthians ... this army is invincible. If you have intimacy with God, they can't kill you.” ( Paul Cain, “Joel's Army,” 1990 p. 218) [For more on Paul Cain's revelation of Joels army> go here]
****



The Central theme to Manifest Sons of God doctrine is the belief that sonship to God comes through higher revelation via apostles and prophets. The Christian life, has levels to go through, to reach maturity. The first level is that of servant of God, the next is that of friend of God, following this is to become a son of God and the realization of gods ourselves. much like the new age potential in man)

[Lantern]

Thank you....Thank you Ligthouse for posting all of this.
It is a revelation to me and speaks exactly to the unease I have been feeling lately about what I have heard and read by these people.
I can't help but feel that God was trying to tell me all of this .... but until I was able to read it, I could not really understand what it was I was feeling.
Lord Bless you for reveling the TRUTH.
Lantern's Wife

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Lantern
Thank you....Thank you Ligthouse for posting all of this.
It is a revelation to me and speaks exactly to the unease I have been feeling lately about what I have heard and read by these people.
I can't help but feel that God was trying to tell me all of this .... but until I was able to read it, I could not really understand what it was I was feeling.
Lord Bless you for reveling the TRUTH.
Lantern's Wife

I get flamed quite a bit on here for daring to challenge these popular false teachers, and some actually believe I enjoy it. I don't. But let me tell you, when I read or hear something like what you just wrote... it makes it all worth while.

God bless you... Krispy.

[keeotee]

We are obligated to beleive no man. We are obligated to believe God and His Word. This was demonstrated by the Bereans.

Perhaps if more people knew God's Word well enough and sought God rather than something else, fewer would be deceived by anyone.

Oh, before I forget, in an earlier post I mentioined that all should beware of a group called the Remnant of the Table. In fact it is the Table of the Remnant. If you visit their website, you will most likely not see anything that gives them away immediately, other than their prophecies. But if you listen closely enough to waht each and every one of them say (they all say the very same lines), you soon get a feeling for why these folk need to be avoided.

Whether it is true, these reports of such folk, I do not know. I have to hear it for myself. It causes me caution, but then I approach such with caution anyway.

I would note that in the latter days there will be new revelation and understanding of the Word of God. Oh please wait a minute before jumping on me for saying that.

Now here's my point. Do you really believe that 200 years ago anyone knew how the anti-christ could control buying and selling worldwide and mark every living human being with his mark? Of course not. But now with technology, we have new understanding of what God was saying. We now can see how it could be done!

But recognize too that this is a far cry from saying what many are saying.

It's only going to get worse. We had best know God and His Word.

We also had best not think we know it all either. And that ought to scare us into realizing that though we never will know it all in this life, we'd better know it enough to get us through it all. And that ought to cause us to ask ourselves if we really do. Rather that than think we do.