Why do people do this everytime??

[cktb2793]

I don't know why everytime someone posts about considering suicide it turns into people arguing about why they believe you can commit suicide and still go to Heaven.

Don't you think that telling a person that they can possibly go to Heaven if they commit suicide may actually be giving them the courage they need to actually go through with it????? Especially if they are in a depressed and mixed up state of mind.

Won't you feel guilty if someone commits suicide because you told them they could still go to Heaven if they did? Can you prove 100% for certain by Scripture that you are correct?? No you cannot, just like I cannot prove 100% that they won't go to Heaven.

How awful would it be to be standing in the Bema Seat judgement and find out that people in fact do go to hell for commiting suicide and that someone is there because you helped them to feel they would still go to Heaven if they did it???? I would hate to have Jesus tell me that.

So why take the risk?? Shouldn't we just stick to talking the person out of it, rather than giving reasons why you feel it would be ok to commit suicide and go to Heaven.??......since the Bible doesn't make it 100% clear and you could be wrong.

[BarbT]

The only act that can send us to hell is rejecting the grace afforded us at Calvary. Sorry, but telling a born again believer they will go to hell for one terrible act does not make sense. :confused

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by BarbT
The only act that can send us to hell is rejecting the grace afforded us at Calvary. Sorry, but telling a born again believer they will go to hell for one terrible act does not make sense. :confused

Did I say to tell them they are going to hell????? No I said to not turn it into an argument about whether or not they will as it always turns into when someone posts about considering suicide.

The person posts because they are crying out for help and looking for people to talk them out of it. Do you really think arguing about whether or not they will go to Heaven will help them to change their mind about doing it??????

Also, how do you know suicide isn't "rejecting the grace afforded us at Calvary"? It's throwing life and everything God gives us back into His face and saying we know better than Him what is good for us.

I'm not saying I'm right or wrong about whether someone who commits suicide goes to hell or not. As I stated I could be 100% wrong and you also can be 100% wrong.

Why take the chance with someone so fragile and upset that they are contemplating suicide???? They need us to talk them out of it, not argue about our beliefs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All I'm saying is we should concentrate on telling them WHY they should NOT do it and how much people care for them and love them here............and forget about arguing about whether you go to heaven or not until another time. Because when someone is crying out for a reason NOT to commit suicide is the WRONG TIME to have that debate.

(edited for spelling)

[Doobie56]

No, I honestly don't believe that telling someone they may go to Heaven upon suicide would be giving them permission to kill themselves. It didn't make me feel Like I ever had permission.

You asked if anyone had scripture to back this up? Well, I don't have any exact scripture, but the Bible does tell us we get there Through Christ. By HIS GRACE. And God also tells us in His Word that He Loves us all and knew us while we were in our Mother's womb. He also tells us He wouldn't give us anything we couldn't bear. But, He didn't promise us a wide path to follow did He? That path is narrow.
Some people have good coping skills, some don't. But to committ suicide one would have to be mentally ill. Now I ask you this: "Would God send a mentally ill person to hell?"

Think about it. We are saved through Grace, because we believed and accepted His Gift. And then we told people about that Free Gift. We are saved because of The Blood of the Lamb. Nothing we say or feel or do makes it any different for us. (except the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit).

Maybe instead of judging these people, we could reach out a long strong and steady hand for them eh? I am sure God puts a lot of these people with this on their minds, on our hearts to Pray for them. He knows what is going to happen and He understands better the situation. But He does want us to respond in Love and acceptence. Kind of like what He did for us isn't it?:confused

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by Doobie56
Maybe instead of judging these people, we could reach out a long strong and steady hand for them eh? I am sure God puts a lot of these people with this on their minds, on our hearts to Pray for them. He knows what is going to happen and He understands better the situation. But He does want us to respond in Love and acceptence. Kind of like what He did for us isn't it?:confused

You're completely ignoring what I'm saying.

1) I DID NOT say to tell them they are going to hell.

2) I DID NOT say to judge them on anything.

3) I said I could be 100% wrong about whether or not you go to hell or Heaven if you commit suicide.

But the MOST IMPORTANT thing I said and the point I'm TRYING TO GET ACROSS is THIS:

If someone posts that they are considering suicide, shouldn't we use our posts to convince them not to do it??
Shouldn't we be telling them all the reasons that they should stay here??
Shouldn't we be telling them that no matter how bad things look, faith in Christ will ALWAYS get us through and there will be better times ahead??
Shouldn't we tell them how much it would hurt those they love??
Shouldn't we be telling them to talk to their pastor and/or a Christian they trust??
Shouldn't we encourage them NOT to do it??


That's all I'm saying.........I didn't say to judge anybody or to tell them they are going to go to hell. But you shouldn't tell them they will go to Heaven for sure either.........only GOD knows the correct answer to that question.

Do you really think they posted that they are considering suicide because they want to listen to us argue about whether or not they will go to Heaven??
What if hearing someone say that they will go to Heaven instead of hearing all the encouraging things listed above is what makes them decide to do it??
Just because that didn't encourage you to do it doesn't mean it won't encourage someone else to do it. Everyone is different. As you said:
Originally posted by Doobie56
But to committ suicide one would have to be mentally ill.
and that's why they might just take being told they can go to Heaven as permission to commit suicide. That's why we should not have the debate one way or another on their thread...... you never know if they are mentally ill or not and if they will really do it.

We should stick to trying to convince them to reconsider and save the Heaven/hell debate for some other time. That's all I'm trying to say.

I don't know who's right but that's not what matters............it's the person's life and saving it that matters at that point, NOT the debate.

[antsinmypants]

Hey,

Take this into perspective.

I, once was very suicial.. now-- that being said, I was fully assured that if I did follow through with any of it -- 5% was sure I would die. 95% was sure I'd end up JUST like my mom said-- a vegetable unable to function normally.

What kept me from following through ?

YHVH.. and knowing I would be in deep do-do knowing I cut my life short for some stupid trial and selfishness struggles against YHVH I was having.

Then I thought, "You know- it's really dumb to argue with G-d because you know, you die- who are you facing? your maker. Shape Up!"

Much prayer, bible study and one on one with G-d has kept me from that again.

What got me there? Problems resulting from sinning and G-d chastening me, and HaSatan having a field day trying to tell me I wasn't a believer when I was.

Telling someone that they'd go to hell if they commit suicide is wrong, as it isn't scriptural. The only unforgiveable sin is the one -- Blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit)... and no believer can seriously do that.. as the Ruach lives in us. :wave

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by cktb2793
But the MOST IMPORTANT thing I said and the point I'm TRYING TO GET ACROSS is THIS:

If someone posts that they are considering suicide, shouldn't we use our posts to convince them not to do it??
Shouldn't we be telling them all the reasons that they should stay here??
Shouldn't we be telling them that no matter how bad things look, faith in Christ will ALWAYS get us through and there will be better times ahead??
Shouldn't we tell them how much it would hurt those they love??
Shouldn't we be telling them to talk to their pastor and/or a Christian they trust??
Shouldn't we encourage them NOT to do it??


That's all I'm saying.........

Ok, maybe they ARE doing this, but behind the scenes.. Cos that's the vibe Im' getting from that thread.

Shalom

[RJs here]

cktb ~ I very much *saw your point* {on the thread we're both thinking of}


and yes.... I'm in agreement.


Funny how some ppl are SO EAGER to prove that they *are right* ~ that they fail to see the overall message they could be sending.


The poster started talking of doing himself in last fall {thread in "We that Struggle" forum}


Then disappeared from this board for many months ~


Then today shows up, saying he got the help he needed, but yet still seems *fascinated* by the subject of suicide.


...... :sigh


And babylon ~ if you happen to be reading this ~ I would ask why you are so EAGER to die!!

We think we have life all figured out -- that things are soooo bad, that we can't see past tomorrow -- and often times we think we are ready to *die* for the Lord ~ but what about LIVING FOR HIM!!??? :confused {ref. Romans 12!!}

For *THAT* is the far greater challenge!!


Suicide is a cop out. Plain and simple.


And yes, I'm human and I've had my moments too ~ I notice I get depressed (and even suicidal) when I'm even taking ANTIBIOTICS for Pete's sake!!! So don't think for one moment that CHEMICALS ~ esp. any kind of medicines, cannot AFFECT how you are thinking!!

After the last bad round of antibiotics ~ I decided I will not take them anymore. It's just not worth how they affect me.

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by antsinmypants
Hey,

Telling someone that they'd go to hell if they commit suicide is wrong, as it isn't scriptural. The only unforgiveable sin is the one -- Blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit)... and no believer can seriously do that.. as the Ruach lives in us. :wave

AGAIN, if you would take the time to read my posts........you would see that I am NOT saying to tell someone they are going to hell if they commit suicide.
I am saying that you should ALSO not tell them they are going to Heaven if they commit suicide EITHER.
Where is it scriptural to tell someone they will go to Heaven if they commit suicide?? I don't believe I saw that in there either.

I ALSO said that none of us know for sure what happens if we commit suicide........only GOD does.

AGAIN and AGAIN, I have said that we should not tell people that they are going to EITHER Heaven or hell if the commit suicide.

We should instead be giving them reasons why they should not, do it, how much they are loved .....etc (read my last post for more detail).

ONLY 1 person seems to want to hear this. the rest are still insisting on arguing whether or nnot you are going to Heaven or hell if you commit suicide.

That is not the point here.......the point is that it is more IMPORTANT to try to save the person's life and that this debate should be done at a different time........NOT on someone's thread when they are considering suicide. You should be posting trying to convince them why they should not do it rather than arguing about going to Heaven or hell as always happens.

That is all I am asking is this.............
when someone posts that they are considering suicide, try to talk them out of it by telling them why they shouldn't.
If you really need to argue about whether they go to Heaven or hell.......start your own thread about it but don't hijack their thread to talk about it.

They are crying out for help...........and as YOU said it's not scriptural to tell them they are going to hell if they commit suicide.......but it's also not scriptural to tell them they will go to Heaven either because NOWHERE does the Bible say for sure either way.

[Elizabeth_S]

So this would be about me.

First, I thought my response for awhile, and the post was in honest response.

I have a nephew who committed suicide, just weeks after he got saved, and you know what, he was born again, in sincerity, but he did have severe depression from drug abuse, he was trying to get help, but it became too much for him, and he is now gone with a devastated family left behind.

He left an infant daughter who is being raised by a drugged out Mom. My nephew was trying to kick the habit to raise his daughter, but the mother of his daughter would rather be mired in her drug use and my sister is raising the baby, or should i say babies now, more than the mother. He could not overcome the depression of trying to help the mother kick her drug habit and raise the daughter, so he took the horrible way out.

His mother, my sister, has been blaming herself for several years. It is a horrible loss to a family and what a suicide leaves behind is horrible, and they would not do this if they really knew what they destroy in the process.
__________________________

There was no way of knowing that this person may have contemplated suicide or whatever before, that would be a big help.:tsk

And are we to lie about what we see to be the truth as best we know it?

How are we to know if the person is just asking, or worried over a relative?

so unless people now expect us to be psychic when answering a post, give us some slack please.

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by Elizabeth_S
So this would be about me.

How are we to know if the person is just asking, or worried over a relative?

so unless people now expect us to be psychic when answering a post, give us some slack please.

1) WHEN did I say this was about you???

2) Whether the person is talking about themself or asking on behalf of someone else, isn't it best to give them reasons for not doing it rather than taking the chance that they or whoever thay are asking about will be encouraged to do it if they are told they will go to Heaven if they do?

3) Did I say anyone should be psychic? Refer to #2.

I'm very sorry to hear about your nephew and family problems...and didn't mean any of my comments to be directed to you in particular. I was talking about posts in general.

All I'm tryin to say is nowhere does the Bible say for sure waht happens to us if we were to commit suicide. I myself admit I don't know for sure and neither does anyone else no matter how much they insist otherwise.

I'm NOT trying to argue here whether people go to Heaven or Hell if the commit suicide.......Below is all I'm trying to say:

God ALONE knows the answer.
Why can't we just leave it a that when someone posts about considering suicide??
Why do we always have to turn their topic into a debate about where they will go??
Why can't we stick to trying to give them reasons not to do it based on things we know for sure??
If they ask about whether they will go to Heaven, shouldn't we just say that only God knows for sure??........that is the TRUE answer.
Shouldn't we stick to trying to keep them from doing it and save the Heaven/Hell debate for some other time??

Why do you all want to argue about Heaven/hell for suicide and not see what I'm trying to say?? What matters is saving the person or the person they might be asking on behalf of....... not the Heaven/hell argument.

[JustGodsChild]

Originally posted by cktb2793
1) WHEN did I say this was about you???

2) Whether the person is talking about themself or asking on behalf of someone else, isn't it best to give them reasons for not doing it rather than taking the chance that they or whoever thay are asking about will be encouraged to do it if they are told they will go to Heaven if they do?



Why do you all want to argue about Heaven/hell for suicide and not see what I'm trying to say?? What matters is saving the person or the person they might be asking on behalf of....... not the Heaven/hell argument.

I do agree with what you are saying. And I also see your point. However, I think you are being a little harsh of the people who are in that discussion on that particular thread.

And as for Suicide, if you have never been in the position of wanting to commit suicide then you wouldn't understand the person's mindset. I know I have. You want to commit suicide regardless of what anyone says if you are that determined to do so. And placing the blame on the people (in the other thread)saying you are going to drive him or her to commit suicide in my opinion is wrong.

Sorry if I keep across in a rude manner, I am not meaning to. And I apologize if I have offended you. I am just trying to get you to see the other side. :):

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by JustGodsChild
I And as for Suicide, if you have never been in the position of wanting to commit suicide then you wouldn't understand the person's mindset. I know I have. You want to commit suicide regardless of what anyone says if you are that determined to do so. And placing the blame on the people (in the other thread)saying you are going to drive him or her to commit suicide in my opinion is wrong.



Yes, I have been in that position before I was saved and I can tell you on more than one occasion the ONLY thing that kept me from doing it was the FEAR OF GOING TO HELL. If I had thought I could do it and go to Heaven, I would NOT be here.

I thank God and praise Him that no one I cried out to for help had told me that I could do it and still go to Heaven, because I know in my heart that I would not be here now if they had.

That is why I am so adamant about this subject. No one knows what is in a person's mind and no one knows what will trigger a person to make that final decision. You are treading on dangerous ground when you tell a suicidal person that they will be in Heaven if they commit suicide, that could just be their trigger. I'm not saying to tell them they are going to hell either.

We just really need to concentrate on helping them realize that they have other choices. If someone is totally set on committing suicide, they are just going to do it, they won't bother to ask advice about it.

When someone starts talking about it and telling people they are considering it......they are making a desperate plea for help. They don't realize it but they are really looking for someone to care enough to talk them out of it. I can tell you this from experience

We need to give them that help, not tell them they will go to Heaven if they do it and in effect make them feel ok about it doing it. We should also not start arguing between each other about whether or not they are going to Heaven or hell.

People who consider suicide are usually crying out for attention. If they see their post turn from talking to them into a debate over going to Heaven/hell, there is a chance they will feel abandoned and that no one really cares about them.

That's why I'm saying it's best just to say only God knows for sure what happens if you commit suicide........because it's the truth and it keeps their thread from turning into a Heaven/hell debate.

The focus needs to stay on the person who started the thread in order to show them that they mean something to us and are worth their life. Turning their thread into a Heaven/hell debate DOES NOT do that.

[Doobie56]

cktb2793, your seemingly very defensive right now. Maybe I contributed, sorry about that. I re read your orignal post and I, as you put it, "got your point." You are absolutley right in saying we need to reach out to that person. Hence my saying...shouldn't we extend a strong and steady hand to this individual. Yes, that is what I meant. Talk to them. Or, more appropriatley listen to them, hear them.

Sometimes all they really want to do is air it out, say what they are truly feeling. The anger, the hurt, the pain. The dispair. Sometimes they may mean it. We won't really know on a message board if they are "brave" enough to go through with the finality of death. Some think cowards of these type of people, but it takes "guts" in my opinion, (They are actually kind of numb)because we don't know what truly happens after one takes their own life, not really, but, we do have our faiths. It's best to be cautious though, in 'that' you are ever so right.

But if someone comes out and asks, they will get many different answers too. Because many people believe differently and many even interpet the Word of God differently. However, I will state this, we are not going to truly "help" someone who is in fact in very deep depression on a message board. We should leave that up to the experts. But, we can and I believe all here on this message board do Pray for any individual. That is "our" most important thing and the best we could probably truly offer. God can do the immediate work. He is one of the experts I am thinking of.

:): I am sorry about misreading your original post. This happens too sometimes. We are imperfect, we will make mistakes. eh?

(edited for spelling)

[JustGodsChild]

Originally posted by cktb2793

That is why I am so adamant about this subject. No one knows what is in a person's mind and no one knows what will trigger a person to make that final decision. You are treading on dangerous ground when you tell a suicidal person that they will be in Heaven if they commit suicide, that could just be their trigger. I'm not saying to tell them they are going to hell either.

We just really need to concentrate on helping them realize that they have other choices. If someone is totally set on committing suicide, they are just going to do it, they won't bother to ask advice about it.



Deleted because I realized what I wrote was harsh. Sorry about that. I am going to pray for all people involved in this debate. God bless you all.

[Rom831]

Originally posted by Doobie56
No, I honestly don't believe that telling someone they may go to Heaven upon suicide would be giving them permission to kill themselves. It didn't make me feel Like I ever had permission.

Coming from someone who has been suicidal, who has spent a full day with a gun pointed at his head praying that God give me some sign that if I pulled the trigger I'd be with Him, I can wholeheartedly say you are wrong. Absolutely the only thing that kept me from pulling the trigger was the thought that if I did, I would not go to heaven. That is the one and only reason I am here.

Had I thought I would still go to heaven, I would not be here. In fact, in the three years since that day, my life hasn't improved all that much. I want out of it! Now, I'm not going to and I know God has some plan to use me for something, but I still want out. I hear people talking sad about death, people with cancer fighting for life and scared to die and all I can think is 'let me trade with you.' And then people tell me if you kill yourself you go to heaven? Do you not see where that sounds like the greatest, most wonderful out immaginable??

Now please, this post isn't about me. I am strong in my faith and going nowhere. But what about someone who is where I was the day with my gun? Although this all sounds very comforting, especially to someone left behind from a suicide, but it is the last thing to tell someone!

Until someone can successfully answer my questions and concerns ont the other thread on this, I will continue to hold my belife that suicide is a sin you cannot repent from and therefore may indeed lead to eternal torment. In fact, I hope noone ever does counter it because I am strong now, but may not be another day.

Bless...ArtS

edited to add
I just want to add, on the encouragment note, yes, it is important to encourage someone feeling this way. Tell them they are loved and important. But when I was in that position, I didn't want to hear it, nor did I care. My thought was 'yeah they say that, but if I wasn't around, they'd never miss me. Or at most, only for a short time. Then we'll all be better off.'

Yes, encouragment IS important, but for some, they have moved beyond where that has any effect. If someone is asking about a particular issue, I feel we should address it with the greatest of care, considering what our answer may lead to. That one piece, may be the last straw they are hanging onto.

[KrispyKritter]

On the thread where someone asked that question yesterday I was able to discern from some of the other posts that this person was struggling with a lot of depression, and had indicated that they were suicidal.

I felt cautioned by the Holy Spirit to be careful how I answered this question.

While I generally believe that a straight forward answer is the best policy, we do need to use wisdom and discernment. That is why I did not answer their question. The answer seems obvious to most of us, and if the person really wants to know, he/she can discover it for themselves.

What I chose to do was give the person some reason for hope in this world. I think the more discerning people on this thread probably did the same.

For those who didnt, perhaps the Holy Spirit led them to do otherwise, I can not judge that. But for me, I felt it was more important to address the root of the real problem... which is this person's feelings of hopelessness.

[Willo]

Originally posted by antsinmypants

Telling someone that they'd go to hell if they commit suicide is wrong, as it isn't scriptural. The only unforgiveable sin is the one -- Blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit)... and no believer can seriously do that.. as the Ruach lives in us. :wave

This could turn into a eternal salvation debate:P:

I honestly believe that if you commit suicide you will find yourself in Hell, now before everyone jumps on me, if you believe in OSAS that's cool, but I don't, and I can't see supporting scripture as such.

This is just what I believe:wave

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Willo
This could turn into a eternal salvation debate:P:

I honestly believe that if you commit suicide you will find yourself in Hell, now before everyone jumps on me, if you believe in OSAS that's cool, but I don't, and I can't see supporting scripture as such.

This is just what I believe:wave

If we are not saved by our works... then please explain to me how we lose our salvation by works...:D:

[Willo]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
If we are not saved by our works... then please explain to me how we lose our salvation by works...:D:

A good thread to read with heaps of info on this question, and any others you may think of is the Prodical Son thread!

Go have a bit of a read of that :D:

[Joseph Eley]

cktb2793, you are being unreasonable.

Can you prove 100% for certain by Scripture that you are correct??

People were just anwsering your question, showing why they believe they are correct. If you wanted people to stick to your main question, you shouldn't digress.

That's why I'm saying it's best just to say only God knows for sure what happens if you commit suicide........because it's the truth

Cleary people disagree with you here. And they wanted to show you why, you shouldn't be so hard on them.

And no I dont think its hurts for people to give an honest view on the matter. The person who made the thread you were refering to asked a question, and people gave a wide variety of anwsers. It may do damage, but that shouldn't stop us being honest in our views. But I do agree with you that we shouldn't argue about it so much and instead we should concentrate on helping these people. :):

[cktb2793]

oops...sorry posted same thing twice

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by cktb2793
AGAIN, if you would take the time to read my posts........

wow, wasn't that said in a nice spirit?

IF you'd read My posts, you'd see i"m saying the same danged thing.

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by cktb2793
Why can't we stick to trying to give them reasons not to do it based on things we know for sure??

This i can agree with. This is the spirit of the post, but the tone, and the wording is what is a complete turn off-- the entire post that is.

We can do that, and i'm sure many of us on RR have been touched by suicide or contemplated it ourselves. SOMETIMES, it helps to relate those feelings and talk about stuff.

SOMETIMES that isn't appropriate.

Who are we to judge what G-d led one person to do, if it brings them back from ending their lives?

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by antsinmypants
wow, wasn't that said in a nice spirit?

IF you'd read My posts, you'd see i"m saying the same danged thing.

Why do you seem to want to pick apart how I chose to word a few things here and there rather than seeing what I am trying to say?? My grammar may not be as good as your so it may seem to come off harsh but........

What I said wasn't meant the way you took it.

You haven't exactly worded everything you said perfectly either.

But that's not the point of this thread.

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by Joseph Eley
cktb2793, you are being unreasonable.



People were just anwsering your question, showing why they believe they are correct. If you wanted people to stick to your main question, you shouldn't digress.



Cleary people disagree with you here. And they wanted to show you why, you shouldn't be so hard on them.

And no I dont think its hurts for people to give an honest view on the matter. The person who made the thread you were refering to asked a question, and people gave a wide variety of anwsers. It may do damage, but that shouldn't stop us being honest in our views. But I do agree with you that we shouldn't argue about it so much and instead we should concentrate on helping these people. :):

So even if hearing that YOU believe they will go to Heaven if they commit suicide is the final straw that gives them the courage to commit suicide, you still think it is better to tell them that??????????

What is wrong with saying that only God knows for sure??? Do you not agree thqat God only knows 100% for sure and that it is a truthful answer???

I'm not saying I believe OSAS or OSNAS, because I really don't know which is correct. However, OSAS does use the argument that if someone who "seemed" saved later becomes a horrible sinner that "may be because they were never really saved in the first place" and that's why they went down the wrong path.

If that is correct, how do you know for sure that someone who is able to go through with suicide, even though they may "seem" saved, does not fall under the category of someone who was "never really saved to begin with"?? YOU CAN'T......ONLY GOD KNOWS FOR 100% SURE IF A PERSON IS TRULY SAVED

That's why I'm saying not to tell a person considering suicide that they will go to heaven. Whether you believe OSAS or OSNAS you don't know for sure if the person is really saved or not and your telling them that they will go to Heaven may be what helps them decide to do it and sends them to hell for it if they are not truly saved.

This is not about OSAS vs OSNAS or Heaven vs hell for suicidal people. This is about not knowing if they are truly saved or not and not telling them they will go to heaven or hell if they do it. Because only God knows the answer to both of those questions.

So tell me now, how would it not be honest to tell them that only God knows the answer when you don't know:
1) 100% for sure if they are saved
2) 100% for sure how God views suicide

That's my only point, please don't give someone their courage to do it by telling them they will go to Heaven. Do you really want to stand before Christ and have Him ask you "Who gave you the authority to tell someone who wasn't really saved that they'd go to Heaven if they committed suicide? Why did you cause my child to go to hell?" I sure don't want to hear those words. And that has nothing to do with OSAS or OSNAS

Here are quotes that show 2 people who would have commited suicide at one time if someone had told them they would go to Heaven if they did: (one of them is me, so I know)

Originally posted by cktb2793
Yes, I have been in that position before I was saved and I can tell you on more than one occasion the ONLY thing that kept me from doing it was the FEAR OF GOING TO HELL. If I had thought I could do it and go to Heaven, I would NOT be here.

I thank God and praise Him that no one I cried out to for help had told me that I could do it and still go to Heaven, because I know in my heart that I would not be here now if they had.



Originally posted by Rom831
Coming from someone who has been suicidal, who has spent a full day with a gun pointed at his head praying that God give me some sign that if I pulled the trigger I'd be with Him, I can wholeheartedly say you are wrong. Absolutely the only thing that kept me from pulling the trigger was the thought that if I did, I would not go to heaven. That is the one and only reason I am here.

Had I thought I would still go to heaven, I would not be here. In fact, in the three years since that day, my life hasn't improved all that much. I want out of it! Now, I'm not going to and I know God has some plan to use me for something, but I still want out.

Originally posted by Rom831
And then people tell me if you kill yourself you go to heaven? Do you not see where that sounds like the greatest, most wonderful out immaginable??

Now please, this post isn't about me. I am strong in my faith and going nowhere. But what about someone who is where I was the day with my gun? Although this all sounds very comforting, especially to someone left behind from a suicide, but it is the last thing to tell someone!



Do any of you understand yet that you should not tell a suicidal person that they will go to Heaven if they do it?? You are not God, you do not know their heart to tell if they are truly saved or not........so despite all your good intentions, you do not know for sure and should not tell them that you do. You know what they say about good intentions and the road to hell.

Please don't be the person who gives them the reason they need to have the courage to commit suicide. That's all I'm asking. I really don'y care whether you believe OSAS or OSNAS, that's not the point.

The point is that when a person's life is at stake it's not the time to tell them they'll go to Heaven if they do it or to argue over it, because you don't know what's truly in their heart salvation wise. And you don't know if your words will be the courage they need to go ahead and do it.

[antsinmypants]

Yes, but there is no need to be so dogmatic, ALL CAPS (which is yelling btw, over the internet ;): ) and Fussing at people for what the HS led them to do.

:freaked

I picked what stood out the most. It has nothing to do with grammar or spelling, thanks.

[cktb2793]

Originally posted by antsinmypants
Yes, but there is no need to be so dogmatic, ALL CAPS (which is yelling btw, over the internet ;): ) and Fussing at people for what the HS led them to do.

:freaked

I picked what stood out the most. It has nothing to do with grammar or spelling, thanks.

How do you know that it was the Holy Spirit leading someone to tell a suicidal person they will go to Heaven if they do it???

That would seem to imply that the Holy Spirit thinks it is OK for people to commit suicide, don't you think??

How do you know the person they are telling that to is truly saved??

How do you know the person they are telling that to won't commit suicide because they told them they would go to heaven?

How do you know that the person won't go to hell if they aren't truly saved but commit suicide because someone told them they would go to heaven if they did??

You don't know.........that's the point I'm trying to make.

You seem to be more concerned about insisting you are right than in even considering that it may be wrong to tell a suicidal person things that may give them the courage to do it.

Did you not see the quotes in my above post from 2 people on this thread who have said they would not be here now if someone had told them they could commit suicide and go to Heaven??

Is insisting you are right more important to you than keeping someone from committing suicide regardless of where they would go when they did it?? It sure seems that way as you are so adamant about telling suicidal people that they will go to Heaven when you don't know for sure what is in their heart or if they are tryuly saved.

[antsinmypants]

You know, i'm not insisting I am right.

If you remember, I replied on the above questioned thread- and told why I didn't commit suicide, because I remembered my mothers words to me.. and because I couldn't bear the thought of being a vegetable/in a vegetative or paralyzed state- because I knew that G-d didn't want me off this earth yet.

So, please don't start accusing someone when you dont' know the motive behind it, or why they said what they did. You didn't even speak to me- but you know, I saw the thread and you're being so dogmatic on this one point.. and i think all of us who responded had this in mind when we spoke with this person.

Please.. for the sake of everyone, since this is supposed to be a friendly board, keep it that way...

This thread is harsh, and it really hurts my spirit to see it every time.

If we spent just five minutes pondering whether or not what we say will hurt or heal.. sometimes I think we wouldn't post at all... or we'd revise a little.

Remember:


Jam 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?


p.s. it wasn't the most recent thread here on CC that I replied to, but another one I saw recently.

[Paul]

Hi everyone,

When we post on a message board as massive as this what we say is being read by hundreds of people and many people will make decisions based (at least to some degree) on what we say. That should cause us to consider very carefully what we say.

Now, I understand what both side are saying and think both have good points, but emotions are running very high in this thread and given the weight of this topic I think it would be best to close it.

If you are struggling with suicide or depression my advice to you is twofold. 1) Seek Christ 2) Seek medical help

"If you come to Jesus the rest which He will give you will be deep, safe, holy, and everlasting. He gives a rest which develops into heaven, and He gives it this day to all who come to Him." - Charles Spurgeon