1 John 3: 1-10

[savedandhappy1]

Here we go again.

1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

I have read where people knew that Joyce Meyer was a false teacher, because she said she wasn't a sinner now.

I have read the above scripture in the KJV and the Greek, and I find it to say in verse 9 that if we are born of God we do not sin because his seed is in us.

Now don't get me wrong I still to things wrong and have to ask forgiveness for those things. I have heard JM say how she has also. She even discribed somethings she does that I think we all do and that is feel quilty for days after we have done something wrong, and how that is wrong. For when we ask for forgiveness and mean it, it is forgiven. We think tho that we have to feel quilty about it for awhile as some sore of paying for the sin, which we of course can't do, because Jesus has already done it. I doubt that I am the only one that has done this.

So could someone tell me what the above scripture means if I am reading and understanding it wrong. Or could you tell me somewhere else to look and study to help me better understand these scriptures.

Thank You in advance for your help in understanding these scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[sandy111]

we all sin, to say otherwise is a lie.
we strive to be more like Christ.
to me that scripture is that when we are in Christ our
conscience is going to bug us, and the HS is going to convict us that that is wrong..............and I believe its talking about
will ful sinning not a stumble.
we will never be perfect, with no sin until we shed
this carnal nature for good.

also, we should feel guilty, but not drag it out forever
when we confess and ask the Lord to cleanse us.
some people have very tender consciences and
to me what joyce is teaching is hardening a persons heart,
when I feel guilty I pay attention to what I do next time,
I care. If I don't care I don't pay attention.

[KrispyKritter]

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I think that sums it up pretty simply. Obviously this was written about believers because if you are not a believer then the truth is not in you anyway. Most unbelievers I know dont think they are sinners... because if they did, they would want salvation. Unbelievers will admit to not being perfect... but rarely admit to be sinners.

We are sinners saved by grace... "are" being the operative word. It's not We were sinners saved by grace.

And this issue is certainly NOT the only reason that Joyce is catagorized as a false teacher/prophet. The list is lengthy. But this is a major one, because by her own words (saying she is no longer a sinner) she is demonstrating that the truth is not in her.

[aboundingjoy]

1Joh 2:1-6 NLT

1My dear children, I am writing this to you so that you will not sin. But if you do sin, there is someone to plead for you before the Father. He is Jesus Christ, the one who pleases God completely.2He is the sacrifice for our sins. He takes away not only our sins but the sins of all the world.3And how can we be sure that we belong to him? By obeying his commandments.4If someone says, "I belong to God," but doesn't obey God's commandments, that person is a liar and does not live in the truth.5But those who obey God's word really do love him. That is the way to know whether or not we live in him.6Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Christ did.
__________________________________________________
How can I examine myself if I do not admit that I fall short of the glory of God? That is why I need Jesus--He is my Redeemer. If I deny that I am a sinner, I am a liar. But I cannot use my fallen nature as a human as an excuse to sin, especially since I have come to know Jesus. As a Christian, I have to try to always walk in the Light, but when I fail and fall, I have Jesus to fall on--

[Hootmon]

We arent Perfect. Just Forgiven.

[savedandhappy1]

I agree with everything you all said, but only one of you touched on the scriptures I gave.

For the past 2 days JM has preached on how she is a sinner, like we all are. I did like the part about guilt and shame, because I will be so glad when I am done with those sins. I think we all have sinned, and then spent days after we have ask forgiveness beating ourselves up for something that is forgotten and forgiven by our Lord and Saviour. Or days, weeks, or even years later that past sin comes to mind again. That past sin that is gone from His mind, but not from ours.

JM didn't use the scripture above I was studing my bible, looking up something else, and came across it. Upon reading it the links or something someone said she had said came to mind. So I thought ok I have read this in the Greek and KJV, and this maybe why she said what she said, and it says we can't sin because His seed is in us.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Verse 6 above, says what to you all?

Yes, we all sin everyday, I know this, but again you have all these verses that have to mean something.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Here again. What does this verse say to you?

I am asking for myself. Yes I think that sometimes we may misunderstand what people mean when they say something, and then use that against them. Maybe it is their interpetation of the scriptures. I dare say that I don't believe anyone on here can interpet every scripture correctly. We are not perfect, yet.

We all sin, and because Christ died on the cross, we are all forgiven before we even sin. All of our sins were forgiven that day. They are covered by His blood. OH PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!

I will not mention JM on this thread anymore, because that is not why I am asking these guestions. All tho I know alot of you will not believe that. I used the examples above just to show how depending on the interpetation you feel is correct you can read those scriptures as maybe she did. If they were even why she said what you all say she said.

That said can we just dicuss the scriptures themselves without getting into wof or anyother rabbit that someone might want to chase. Cause to be honest I went ahead and mentioned JM, because I knew that if I put those scriptures up there that is where everyone would think I was going anyhow.

BUT NOW I KNOW I SHOULDN'T HAVE PLAYED THE GAME, and just ask about the scriptures and hoped and prayered that we could just discuss them without it going there.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

P. S. I asked forgiveness, for thinking that you all wouldn't just discuss scriptures with me without going to things about JM or wof. That was wrong of me to think that and not give you a chance. I also say I am sorry the next post is about JM, because I forgot to answer a guestion, and didn't know that if I hit quote I couldn't edited into this post.

edited for the above reasons.

[savedandhappy1]

Originally posted by sandy111
also, we should feel guilty, but not drag it out forever
when we confess and ask the Lord to cleanse us.
some people have very tender consciences and
to me what joyce is teaching is hardening a persons heart,
when I feel guilty I pay attention to what I do next time,
I care. If I don't care I don't pay attention. [/B]


Yes, we should feel guilty, and ask for forgiveness just like I saided and JM saided. WE both say then we should let it go, and not continue to beat ourselves up about it. We should remember and learn, but not drag outselves around for days because of something that we can't change, and is forgiven.

So please tell me how that is making someone hard?

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[KrispyKritter]

Kathy... great question! And I dont have an opinion for you right now...

You've got me curious now too, so later on I'll dig into this and see what I can learn about it.

Krispy

[savedandhappy1]

Krispy,


Thank YOU!!!

Again I am sorry I didn't think you all would just discuss scriptures with me without going off on the other. I AM SO SORRRRY!!!!


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[KrispyKritter]

Actually, Kathy, if you always blanket your discussions around one issue or preacher I would begin to ignore you... i.e. get bored!

Naw, if you ask real good questions, or bring up interesting topics, you will find that most everyone here will be more than happy to jump in and discuss it with you. Have some confidence! We accept you!

Anyway, after I study this for myself, I'll get back to ya... ok?

[chrislb]

We are sinners and always will be until eternity, which is why Joyce Meyers (a false teacher BTW) is saying she is a sinner.

But the chapter and verse in question is about our position in Christ. We are positionally sinless in Christ, though on this side of eternity and through our eyes, we are sinners.

[savedandhappy1]

Originally posted by chrislb
We are sinners and always will be until eternity, which is why Joyce Meyers (a false teacher BTW) is saying she is a sinner.

But the chapter and verse in question is about our position in Christ. We are positionally sinless in Christ, though on this side of eternity and through our eyes, we are sinners.

Right, so us who have accepted Christ as our personal Saviour, covered in His blood, redeemed by Him are new creators as said in the scriptures.

Could these scriptures be telling us that we make to much of our old self, and that we need to remember we are changed by HIM?

Should we stop talking so much about our sinful state before Christ, and get down to the business He has for us all to do?

I think sometimes the fact that we keep reminding ourselves we are sinners, says that no Lord your blood isn't enough to change me.

We are to daily work toward the goal of being Holy, as He is Holy.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[lighthouse]

KATHY THIS IS WHAT PAUL SAID AT THE END OF HIS MINISTRY/LIFE

I TIMOTHY 1:15 THIS IS A FAITHFUL SAYING, AND WORTHY OF ALL ACCEPTANCE,


THAT CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS,

OF WHOM I AM CHIEF.



THINK ON THAT KATHY.
THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF WAYS THAT WE FAIL DAILY

IT KEEPS US REPENTANT AND HUMBLE
BEFORE A HOLY GOD

MEYERS TEACHES A FORM OF GNOSTICISM




CH 3 SIMPLY MEANS THAT WE CANNOT KEEP ON PRACTICING SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE BORN OF GOD.
IT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT SIN


THAT IS WHY CH 1 REMINDS US THAT WE STILL POSSESSES THE OLD NATURE [ADAM] AND STILL NEED THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR
SINS. [WE WILL NEVER LOSE THAT NATURE UNTIL WE ARE WITH JESUS- IN THIS LIFE WE WILL NEVER OBTAIN PERFECTION]

SIN INTERRUPTS FELLOWSHIP
CONFESSION RESTORES FELLOSHIP
AND IMMEDIATE CONFESSION KEEPS THE FELLOWSHIP UNBROKEN

[aboundingjoy]

Kathy,

I think you have to read the whole book of 1 John--

It is ironic that we are having this discussion, as my study Bible says that John began this letter to counter 2 major threads of false teaching--1. The denial of sin--- and 2. the denial that Jesus was the Messiah.

You know the Proverb "iron sharpens iron" -- That applies to scripture also, I believe, and Chapter 1 and 2 come before 3 for that reason in 1John--

I cannot get the gist of this letter unless I read it sequentially--which makes me understand why people object to pulling a scripture out of context, not saying you are doing that, but that in this case "in context" is very important to the meaning.

Back to chapter 3--I think we all agree that we are all sinners---But if we are in Christ, we repent and confess our sin and ask for forgiveness. If we are not in Christ, we can skip through life sinning without blinking an eye, or we can justify our sinning so we can keep on practicing it.

To me the point is that I am striving for a holy life, I am aiming for a closer walk, I am trying to follow closely the prompting of the Holy Spirit in my life. If I keep myself where I need to be, sin will cause me pain, because I have walked off the narrow path. Hopefully, every day I will try to walk as Jesus walked, and I will stumble, but I will be pressing on toward the higher calling.

And when I sin, I ask forgiveness through the redemptive power of Jesus--Not that I aim to sin, but that as a fallen, imperfect human, I do fall short of the glory of God.

Hope this makes some sense.--

[KrispyKritter]

Hey Kathy... I'm keeping my word and getting back to you...

Since John also said that if we sin we have an Advocate... then we must take that into consideration too.

What I have been able to discern is that John is saying that if we live a lifestyle of sin, then we are not of God and are fooling ourselves into thinking we are saved. Salvation and being sealed with the Holy Spirit into the kingdom of God will produce a desire to live a holy lifestyle... even tho we screw up from time to time. Thats where the Advocate (Jesus) comes into play.

For instance, a lot of gays/lesbians believe they are saved, yet continue on in that lifestyle regardless of what scripture says. They are fooling themselves because they are living in rebellion against God, and refusing to obey His Word.

Hope this helps!

[savedandhappy1]

Originally posted by lighthouse
KATHY THIS IS WHAT PAUL SAID AT THE END OF HIS MINISTRY/LIFE
OF WHOM I AM CHIEF.

THINK ON THAT KATHY.
THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF WAYS THAT WE FAIL DAILY

IT KEEPS US REPENTANT AND HUMBLE
BEFORE A HOLY GOD

MEYERS TEACHES A FORM OF GNOSTICISM

CH 3 SIMPLY MEANS THAT WE CANNOT KEEP ON PRACTICING SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE BORN OF GOD.
IT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT SIN

THAT IS WHY CH 1 REMINDS US THAT WE STILL POSSESSES THE OLD NATURE [ADAM] AND STILL NEED THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR
SINS. [WE WILL NEVER LOSE THAT NATURE UNTIL WE ARE WITH JESUS- IN THIS LIFE WE WILL NEVER OBTAIN PERFECTION]

SIN INTERRUPTS FELLOWSHIP
CONFESSION RESTORES FELLOSHIP
AND IMMEDIATE CONFESSION KEEPS THE FELLOWSHIP UNBROKEN

My guestions as stated in other post are for me. As I said before do not and will not let this be a discussion of JM. I am sorry as I said before I even mentioned it.

aboundingjoy, yes I have read all of 1 John, and thanks for knowing that I did.

quote from aboundingjoy:
I cannot get the gist of this letter unless I read it sequentially--which makes me understand why people object to pulling a scripture out of context, not saying you are doing that, but that in this case "in context" is very important to the meaning
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes to many take verses out of context to serve their purpose, that is why I put the verses before and after in. Not trying to take anything out of context, just trying to learn.

Krispy,
Thank you so much for your answer. I do appreciate it. I was wondering tho on my last post I mention the possiblity that we are putting tomuch thinking about our old nature. The old creature we were, before we found and accepted Christ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is something I stated before:
Should we stop talking so much about our sinful state before Christ, and get down to the business He has for us all to do?

I think sometimes the fact that we keep reminding ourselves we are sinners, says that no Lord your blood isn't enough to change me.

We are to daily work toward the goal of being Holy, as He is Holy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could these scriptures be trying to get it into our thick skulls that we are changed, and hanging on the old creature that we were, slows down the maturing of our New Creature through Jesus?

Thank you all for your responses.

Love learning and studying the word, and love being able to toss things around with fellow christians.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[KrispyKritter]

Your last post, Kathy, was a tad confusing... but let me address your question about us dwelling on our sinfulness... former and present.

If we dwell on our former sin before Christ, then yes, that is wrong. It can produce guilt that should not be there because we've been washed clean.

Also, sometimes people's testimonies can become bragging sessions. Sometimes we find ourselves actually being proud of what scumbags we used to be... and that is wrong and very fleshly.

But reminding ourselves that we are presently able to fall into sin, and that we DO fall into sin... is IMHO very healthy spiritually. It helps us to keep the proper persepective of our place in Christ, and can help us to maintain a humble attitude.

Sometimes I write what I write on here with fear and trembling because I know how wretched I am. For instance... we have a particular bill that we are disputing thru legal means. Well, the bill got turned over to a collection agency. This guy has called our house all week harrassing my wife, which really ticks me off. No one talks to my wife that way! Well, he called yesterday while I was here... and so I took the phone from her...

Guess what I did...

I cussed the man out. Badly cussed him out.

And then I called our lawyer, and he's handling it from here.

But when I came before the Lord this morning, I couldnt go nowhere w/him until I made it right with Him. I've contemplated apologizing to the guy... I dont know if I will because it didnt seem to bother him... he just kept belittling me and harrassing me... (thats illegal for him to do, by the way!)

Now, some may read that and think "who is Krispy to spout off his opinions on RR when he does something like that?" But the honest people on here will admit that we all fall on our face and need our Father's grace and forgiveness.

It's not my lifestyle anymore to do such things. This man pushed my buttons, and my old nature that I struggle with came out... and I got totally in the flesh. Did I lose my salvation? No. Did God love me less? No. I made a mistake, I sinned. But His love and truth still resides in me! Praise God!

But situations like that also help me to be humble and not think that I have it all together. I dont... trust me.

I also apologized to my wife for subjecting her to the words I used.

[savedandhappy1]

Krispy,

Been there done that over some medical bills, that I was having trouble getting my insurance to pay.

Yes, we all have to remember where we came from and to where the Lord has brought us. That said to many people seem to live in the shame and guilt of the past.

Yes, we have all sinned and came short of the glory of God. Do we tho have to spend our lives saying I am a sinner, I am so bad, I am so not worthy? God thought we were worth it or He wouldn't have sent His son to die for us.

I am wondering if the scriptures maybe were trying to tell us to get over it. Guilt and shame, to me, are sins also.

Yes, we should always stay humble, and know that we would die in our sins and go to hell if it wasn't for God's love for us. I just think that sometimes we belittle ourselves and others for the past. A past that has been forgiven and forgotten.

Sorry about the confusion of the last post.

My main guestion is are these sciptures trying to tell us that we are now the child of GOD. Our old self has been washed clean by grace, and we need to move on. Get it in our mind that we are His child, and He loves us. His seed is in us because of the grace He has shown to us. No, we will not go out and sin just because we want to. That if we think that way we are of the devil, but the harshness (shame and guilt) we sometimes place on ourselves is not right either. That it is a sin also. I don't know if I am making any sense here or not. Not real sure I am getting my guestions or thoughts clear. Sorry if I am not.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[KrispyKritter]

I see where you're coming from, and I can agree with that. It's having the proper perspective... I think we're both saying the same thing. If we dwell on guilt, we'll never be empowered to do anything for God.

[savedandhappy1]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
I see where you're coming from, and I can agree with that. It's having the proper perspective... I think we're both saying the same thing. If we dwell on guilt, we'll never be empowered to do anything for God.

Boy you worded that so much better then me. :thumb I am jealous.



Love in Christ,
Kathy

P. S. I guess I ran everyone else off.

[savedandhappy1]

[i]Originally posted by lighthouse
CH 3 SIMPLY MEANS THAT WE CANNOT KEEP ON PRACTICING SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE BORN OF GOD.
IT DOES NOT MEAN WE DO NOT SIN

THAT IS WHY CH 1 REMINDS US THAT WE STILL POSSESSES THE OLD NATURE [ADAM] AND STILL NEED THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR
SINS. [WE WILL NEVER LOSE THAT NATURE UNTIL WE ARE WITH JESUS- IN THIS LIFE WE WILL NEVER OBTAIN PERFECTION]

SIN INTERRUPTS FELLOWSHIP
CONFESSION RESTORES FELLOSHIP
AND IMMEDIATE CONFESSION KEEPS THE FELLOWSHIP UNBROKEN [/B]

I will answer this part of your post. Yes we sin, but as I keep saying do we maybe not dwell to much on it. Ok we did it we ask for forgiveness, now move on. Live, learn, and grow in the Lord. The flesh will aways be a problem, but daily as we grow in the Lord becoming more like Him, and less of us this will improve.

Striving daily to become more like Him.

Perfection will not be reached until we are out of these sinful bodies, but that doesn't mean that we should not be working for the goal that we will receive on that day that we are with Him. We are, I believe slowing down our walk in the Lord by dwelling in shame and guilt about things of the past. Things that have been forgotten and forgiven.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[lighthouse]

WE SIN EVERY DAY
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN CUT OFF WHILE YOU WERE DRIVING?
WHAT WAS
YOUR REACTION?
HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IMPATIENT WITH A CASHIER
HOW ABOUT A NEIGHBOT THAT IS EXTREMELY NOISY?
WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?

DO YOU OVEREAT?

DO YOU GOSSIP?

DO YOU LIE?

THINK YOU DO NOT? HEH?

HOW ABOUT
CHEATING ON YOUR TAXES

EVER GET ANGRY

HOW ABOUT SELF RIGHTEOUSS

DO YOU CUSS?

WATCH /LOOK AT PICTURES THAT YOU SHOULD NOT?


PRIDE

PAUL AT THE END OF HIS LIFE SAID THAT HE WAS THE CHIEF
OF SINNERS!!!!!!
ARE YOU MORE RIGHTEOUS THAN HE WAS?


THE NEW WORD OUT THERE ONE THE JM PUSHES
IS THAT WE DO NOT SIN
AND WE SHOULD NOT FEEL GUILTY

THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO SEND A LOT OF PEOPLE TO HELL FAST
READ RAY COMFORTS BOOK ''HELL'S GREATEST SECRET''



THE OLD NATURE
THE OLD ADAM WILL BE WITH US UNTIL WE ARE WITH JESUS

IT IS A WAR BETWEEN OUR FLESH AND OUR SPIRIT



AND I SAY IT AGAIN
CUZ KATHY YOU BROUGHT IT UP
IN YOUR OPENING STATEMENT QUOTE''
I have read where people knew that Joyce Meyer was a false teacher, because she said she wasn't a sinner now.''

JM PREACHES GNOSTICISM

WOFER LOVE TO PULL SCRIPTURE OUT OF CONTEXT
TO MAKE THEIR OWN BELIEFS

THE MINUTE YOU ASSUME YOU NO LONGER SIN [THAT WOULD MAKE YOU PERFECT]
YOU WALK AWAY FROM GRACE


SEE ROMANS 6:5-10 COL 3:8-14 AND EPHESIANS 4:22-24



AS FOR PAST SINS
YES YOU ARE INDEED FREE FROM THEM
AND YES IF YOU STILL FEEL GUILTY
OVER THE PAST
OVER THINGS YOU HAVE ASKED FORGIVENESS FOR
THEN YES THAT WOULD ALSE BE A SIN
AS YOU DO REALLY BELIEVE IN GRACE
OR THAT GOD REALLY HAS FORGIVEN YOU
THAT IS LACK OF TRUST ON YOUR PART


BUT AS FOR THE FUTURE
WE ARE IN HUMAN FLESH
WITH ALL OF ITS FAILINGS
AND WE WILL FAIL
BUT GOD IS MERCIFUL
AND WILL FORGIVE, BUT
WE MUST ASK
WITHOUT ASKING AFTER WE HAVE SINNED
WE BREAK OFF FELLOWSHIP

AND THAT WILL NOT BE RESTORED UNTIL
WE CONFESS OUR SIN

BECAUSE SOMETIMES THE GUILT WE FEELL
IS ACTUALLY
THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
TO BRING US BACK TO RIGHT RELATIONSHIP
WITH GOD
IT THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
TO BRING PEOPLE TO REPENTENCE

[savedandhappy1]

Lighthouse,

Last time I will discuss Jm. I do not know if she has used the scipture I put in my opening post or not. Don't care if she did.


I WAS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE AND CAME ACROSS IT. AS I HAVE SAID.

This is my guestions no one elses. I will not get into a fight or discuss about JM. As I have said I am sorry I mentioned it, and I only did because I figuare you all would think that is why I was posting the guestions. I have said I am sorry. I have said they are my guestions, and by my post after that I believe I have made myself clear on what I was wondering and my feelings about what the scriptures could be saying.

I sin daily, and I am forgiven daily.

Enough said.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[blessanna]

I think this is an interesting question. How does God see us? When we accept Christ we are new creatures. Does God still see us as a sinner or as righteous? The bible also say we are heirs with Christ. We are sons of God.

Yes we still sin. But I believe because of who Christ is and the fact that we are new creatures who died with Christ and to sin, we are no longer sinners in God's eyes but righteous ones.

I didn't see JM sermon but I have heard her speak before. I do believe there is a lot to how we view ourselves is how we act. If we see ourselves as righteous and holy then we should act that way.

I heard a sermon once that God sees us now as we are for eternity. In other words if we are saved, He sees us as righteous, just like he saw Abraham.

[savedandhappy1]

Originally posted by blessanna
I think this is an interesting question. How does God see us? When we accept Christ we are new creatures. Does God still see us as a sinner or as righteous? The bible also say we are heirs with Christ. We are sons of God.

Yes we still sin. But I believe because of who Christ is and the fact that we are new creatures who died with Christ and to sin, we are no longer sinners in God's eyes but righteous ones.

I didn't see JM sermon but I have heard her speak before. I do believe there is a lot to how we view ourselves is how we act. If we see ourselves as righteous and holy then we should act that way.

I heard a sermon once that God sees us now as we are for eternity. In other words if we are saved, He sees us as righteous, just like he saw Abraham.

Yes, how does GOD see us? Could these scriptures not be saying I see you this way, and you should see yourselves as I see you. Love your points. :thumb

Luke 6:32-35
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

In the above scripture it makes a difference between us, and sinners. So does God no longer call us sinners when we accepted Him? Yes, we still sin, but how does God see us?


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[savedandhappy1]

bump

[blessanna]

In all of Paul's letter he discusses how God sees us.
Here is just a sample of some verses:

Romans 8:12Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation--but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. 13For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, 14because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." 16The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Galations 3:26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus

Hebrews 12:4In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons:
"My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6because the Lord disciplines those he loves,
and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son."
7Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? 8If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons.

[savedandhappy1]

blessanna,:thumb :thumb

I agree!! We are heirs, we are children of God when we accepted His salvation. So as I have said before How does He see us. I have given scriptures where He makes the difference between sinners and us. So yes I sin, but the difference is my sins are covered by the blood of Jesus.

No, I can't go out and just sin giving no thought to that sin. If I am truely saved I don't know how someone could. I know that I personnally feel bad the minute I do something I shouldn't, and can't even imagine sinning and telling myself it doesn't matter I am covered. Tho I can tell myself, ok I let the flesh win that one, but Lord forgive me, help me, so that my flesh side isn't as strong as my spiritual side. I can ask forgiveness and move on in my growth with the Lord, and not keep remembering the times I stumbled, except as a lesson to not to that again.

Once I am forgiven it is forgotten by my Saviour. We need to do the same forgive and then forget it. We need to stop beating our selves up about something we cannot change, but learn and become stronger in our walk with the Lord till that day that we are with Him.

Oh for the day we are with Him, Holy and perfect like Him.


Love in Christ,
Kathy