For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

[BHiles]

This was was defined in another thread dealing with "The Gospel of the Kingdom" as Many would come saying that Jesus was actually the Son of God and yet they will decieve many.

I thought I would throw this point out for general discussion because i have never heard this particular definition. I have always understood it to mean that there would be little messiahs running around saying that they were. How would people declaring themselves Christ decieve many when they all would just think that messiah was a nutcase.

However, If a religion said "Yes, Jesus was the messiah and here is how you come to Him" and then spout off man-made works based salvation, Then this would decieve the masses.

[joint heir]

I have always wondered where all the people were claiming to be Christ....it does make moe sense that they claim Jesus is Christ...yet deceive....

it is all a matter of punctuation....here is the text in some various versions

Matthew 24

3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[1] ' and will deceive many.


Footnotes


24:5 Or Messiah; also in verse 23

© Copyright 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
All rights reserved worldwide

Matthew 24:3-5 :: New American Standard Bible (NASB)
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Matthew 24
3 As He was sitting on (1) the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of (2) Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
4 And Jesus answered and said to them, "(3) See to it that no one misleads you.
5 "For (4) many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will mislead many.



Matthew 24:3-5 :: King James Version (KJV)
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Matthew 24
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.


Matthew 24:3-5 :: English Standard Version (ESV)
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Matthew 24


Signs of the Close of the Age

3As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?" 4And Jesus answered them, "See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and they will lead many astray.


Matthew 24:3-5 :: Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
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Matthew 24
3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
4 And Jesus answering said to them, `Take heed that no one may lead you astray,
5 for many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they shall lead many astray,




I am interested in what you all have to say.....


:):

[KrispyKritter]

I think it can apply to both... I believe there are movements that "appear" to be Christian, but are not, and decieve many. I also believe that cult of personality comes under this umbrella as well. While maybe not claiming to be Christ, many teachers teach the wrong Christ (i.e. a different view of Christ).

I find it incredibly interesting that the article that sparked this discussion over on Patty's thread comes from a "ministry" that many (myself included) consider to be one of these deceptive "movements".

Anyway... I believe scripture is referring to any who would decieve people from the gospel. Doesnt matter if it's a ministry, religion, or person.

[BHiles]

That is why I wanted to seperate it from the other discussion.

[joy4Him2day]

And {answering}Jesus said unto them--Be taking heed, lest anyone {decieve}you; For {many}will come upon my name, saying--{I} am the Christ,--and will {deceive many}.

I think you have hit onto something! That makes total sense.
Because deceiving the very elect, if it possible, would not include someone who called themselves Christ.
But how many, say, Lord, Lord, in your name I ........ and He says, I will say unto them, Depart from me, I never knew you.......


WOWOWOWOW :freaked :freaked :freaked

more thoughts?

[joint heir]

Krispy....I guess the phrase a broken clock is right twice a day might be applicable....

it is worth exploring....

here is a concern I have that was actually also pointed out in the article...

1 Corinthians 12
3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.


Now is saying "Jesus is Christ" and "Jesus is Lord" the same thing?


If we say no ...they are different then that opens us to Lordship salvation issues...and do you have to make Jesus Lord of your life to be saved....vs just having faith....

[John Tyson]

Grace and peace to you all.

Here is a notion that I've had for a while. The Antichrist and False Prophet could very well rise out of Islam. In Islamic prophecy, they have a fellow named "Isa," that is supposed to be Jesus, who kills a fellow the Muslims says is the Antichrist, the Dajjal. This man Isa sounds very similar to the False Prophet.
http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/jesus.html

The Imam Mahdi sounds like the actual Antichrist--not the phoney one in the Dajjal.
http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/imam.html

Anyway, there is one scenario that would fulfill Jesus' teaching of Matthew 24:3-4. As we know at the end of the age the Antichrist and False Prophet will deceive many.

God bless,
John

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by joint heir
If we say no ...they are different then that opens us to Lordship salvation issues...and do you have to make Jesus Lord of your life to be saved....vs just having faith....

Thats a good question. We are saved by faith, and not by making Him Lord. If it were, then we would be saved by works, which clearly is impossible.

However, I believe that making Him Lord of our life is the natural (and obedient) response to being saved... and if someone refuses or has no desire to make Him Lord, then their salvation is suspect.

Kinda like a dog... a dog is born a dog, and will have the behavior traits of a dog. If your pet acts like a cat, it probably isnt a dog.

Same for true believers! While we still struggle with sin and failure, there will be a change and a desire to make Him Lord as a result of being saved.

[lighthouse]

UNDERSTAND AS WELL
THE ORIGINAL TEXTS

DID NOT HAVE PUNCTUATION MARKS
CHAPTERS VERSES OR PARAGRAPHS
THESES WERE ADDED MUCH LATER

THEY READ LIKE A VERY LONG LETTER

[Christine]

Originally posted by BHiles
This was was defined in another thread dealing with "The Gospel of the Kingdom" as Many would come saying that Jesus was actually the Son of God and yet they will decieve many. The first time I heard this a few years back, it hit me like a ton of bricks. Taken with the letters to the churches, especially Laodicea, it is my interpretation of choice as it is referring to the period just before the tribulation -- not throughout history (where there have been many to claim to be "the messiah").

I note this because scripture is written for believers -- and it is believers that Jesus is warning about deception (reference 1Corinthians 2:14). Those wrapped up in leaders claiming to be "the messiah" are not believers, they are cult members.

JMHO on definition.

Good topic -- thanks for bringing it up. This is a favorite scripture, if for no other reason than it holds a meaning that goes beyond that which is generally accepted (without altering the base message).

:):

[joy4Him2day]

I just gotta say: *sigh*


:freaked


never thought about Christ and Lord meaning two different things

lots to ponder.......

:):


I feel so stttrrrrreeettttcccchhhheeed.

[Patty T]

Originally posted by BHiles
This was was defined in another thread dealing with "The Gospel of the Kingdom" as Many would come saying that Jesus was actually the Son of God and yet they will decieve many.

I thought I would throw this point out for general discussion because i have never heard this particular definition. I have always understood it to mean that there would be little messiahs running around saying that they were. How would people declaring themselves Christ decieve many when they all would just think that messiah was a nutcase.

However, If a religion said "Yes, Jesus was the messiah and here is how you come to Him" and then spout off man-made works based salvation, Then this would decieve the masses.

I had always pictured what you did BHiles - literal people claiming to be Christ - which we know some in fact did.

But I think Jesus is talking about something totally different. Like someone else said - He is warning believers not to be deceived. I believe these are churches who say Jesus is God's Son, but that He is not the only way to heaven. It could also tie in with the notion that seems to be popping up that repentance is not necessary once you've been "saved". The deception of this last hour is infiltrating the churches at an alarming rate. We must stay in the Word and focused on Jesus. He is THE way, THE truth and THE life - no one comes to the Father but by Him.

Good thread, thanks for starting it.


Patty

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by joint heir
I have always wondered where all the people were claiming to be Christ....it does make moe sense that they claim Jesus is Christ...yet deceive....

it is all a matter of punctuation....here is the text in some various versions

Matthew 24
3 And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'
4 And Jesus answering said to them, `Take heed that no one may lead you astray,
5 for many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ, and they shall lead many astray,




I am interested in what you all have to say.....


:):


Matthew 24
23If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!--do not believe it.

[KC Phelps]

Joe Smith didn't claim to be Jesus Christ, but he did say that he did a better job of running his church/cult than Jesus did.
He's deceived about 10 million so far.
I talked to a couple of guys in Logan, Utah in about 1976 who were followers of "Lightning Amen" who they believed and who told them he was Christ.

[sandy111]

many shall come in my name saying "I AM"

we're seeing a lot of this...tbn teaches this all the time.
they claim they are a god. Say "I AM" its all blaphemy.

Thats Gods title, not little puny mans, trying to be something
he can never attain to.
man can proclaim he is a god, but so did roman ceasers,
egeaption pharohs, and goodness knows how many others.
and where are they today???????

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by sandy111
many shall come in my name saying "I AM"

we're seeing a lot of this...tbn teaches this all the time.
they claim they are a god. Say "I AM" its all blaphemy.

Thats Gods title, not little puny mans, trying to be something
he can never attain to.
man can proclaim he is a god, but so did roman ceasers,
egeaption pharohs, and goodness knows how many others.
and where are they today???????

God tells us exactly where 'they' are.

Isaiah 14
9 The grave [1] below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you-
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones-
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
"You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us."
11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you.

[BHiles]

Just to make everyone aware.

This was an excerpt taken from Patty T's Post about Gospel of the Kingdom in Which Joint Heir brought this to that threads attention. I just wanted to seperate it so we would not derail that thread and could just discuss this Scripture apart from whether or not the information in the original thread was valid. Anyhoo just wanted to give out the props.

[KC Phelps]

Originally posted by joint heir
Krispy....I guess the phrase a broken clock is right twice a day might be applicable....

it is worth exploring....

here is a concern I have that was actually also pointed out in the article...

1 Corinthians 12
3Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.


Now is saying "Jesus is Christ" and "Jesus is Lord" the same thing?


If we say no ...they are different then that opens us to Lordship salvation issues...and do you have to make Jesus Lord of your life to be saved....vs just having faith....

He is Lord of all, Lord and Christ to those who accept Him

[sandy111]

exactly Lonewolf! good post.
thats what I was getting at.

It did'nt do them any good and it wont do any good now.

[Jiggy37]

Originally posted by BHiles
However, If a religion said "Yes, Jesus was the messiah and here is how you come to Him" and then spout off man-made works based salvation, Then this would decieve the masses.
I've seen worse than that; a Gnostic claiming that while Jesus is the only way to salvation, He provided a way to know Him not just through Christianity, but through Buddhism and many other religions. :tsk