Do Our Pets Go To Heaven?

[m0use]

Anyone buy it? Can anyone tell me what it says? Yes or no?
heh:D:

[KrispyKritter]

Nope... we get new pets when we get there.

[Rom831]

Scripture is not specific on this. I had a lady I was talking to online a year or so ago. She did not believe in God because she was told animals didn't go to heaven and she didn't accept a god that wouldn't let her 7 cats be with her there. So I looked into this a lot to try to reach her.

I agree that during the creation account it says that God breathed
the breath of life into man, but it doesn't say this about animals.
But it does say this:

Genesis 6:17
"Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the
earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from
under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

Genesis 7:15
So they went into the ark to Noah, by twos of all flesh in which was the breath of life.

Genesis 7
21 All flesh that moved on the earth perished, birds and cattle and beasts and every swarming thing that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind;
22 of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the
breath of the spirit of life, died.

I see where 6:17 and 7:21-22 could be intrepreted to say God was talking about animals but the breath part only referred to man, although that is by no means established. But 7:15 seems pretty clear that The animals (the ones that went two by two) do indeed have the breath of life in them as well.

Also, in Gen 1:24, the Hebrew of the word used for 'creature' is
nepish which means soul. And then there is this:

Ecclesiastes 3:18-22 18 I also thought, "As for men, God tests
them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"
22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

This says man and animals have the same fate, the same breath, and go to the same place. Yes, this COULD mean we all suffer the first death, but vs 21 speaks specifically of man and animals spirit going up (heaven) or down (hell) and that we cannot say. So it would seem that animals do have the breath of life, a soul and spirit and that their fate is the same as ours which is to rise upward or go down.

Bless...ArtS

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by m0use
Anyone buy it? Can anyone tell me what it says? Yes or no?
heh:D: All things considered, it seems unlikely.

[m0use]

thanks for your replies.. yep i think they go to heaven. i doubt God would just destroy them all, they arent the ones that sinned. they are the best things on this earth. (my opinion, dont bite my head off) they show more love then most people.

Romans 8:19 - The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Romans 8:20 - For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
Romans 8:21 - that[1] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Romans 8:22 - We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Romans 8:23 - Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Romans 8:24 - For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
Romans 8:25 - But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
-
Job 12:7- "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds of the air, and they will tell you;
Job 12:8- or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish of the sea inform you.
Job 12:9- Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?
Job 12:10- In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.
-
Psalms 50:9- I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens,
Psalms 50:10- for every animal of the forest is mine, and the cattle on a thousand hills.
Psalms 50:11- I know every bird in the mountains, and the creatures of the field are mine.
-
Psalms 136:25- and who gives food to every creature. His love endures forever.
-
Luke 12:6- Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies ? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God.

[blitzkreig]

I have a parrot... and I'm pretty sure he isn't going to heaven :nono

[KrispyKritter]

A woman couldnt believe in God if He didnt allow pets into heaven? Thats a rather immature position to take. I strongly suspect she was looking for a reason not to believe.

Either way, I dont think it is spelled out exactly in scripture that animals dont go to heaven... but the assumption has always been that they do not. The fact that they are never mentioned in the resurrection of the saints kinda gives us that indication.

But I wouldnt change the message of the Bible and reassure someone of something that we cant determine for sure. Faith is what is necessary for salvation... faith in Christ. Part of "faith" is putting our trust in Him, and in putting our trust in Him we are basically saying "we dont understand everything that You do or think, but I trust You". Do animals go to heaven? Who really knows for sure? We have to trust that whatever the situation is with animals and heaven... God has it planned perfectly.

If we cant trust Him in something as small and insignificant as this... how can we trust Him to save us at all??

[Rom831]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KrispyKritter
A woman couldnt believe in God if He didnt allow pets into heaven? Thats a rather immature position to take. I strongly suspect she was looking for a reason not to believe.

I do agree. But immature or not, it was real for her. She was genuinly mad about it. After showing her those verses though, she actually did start to question instead of coldly reject.

Do animals go to heaven? Who really knows for sure? We have to trust that whatever the situation is with animals and heaven... God has it planned perfectly.

Agian, I totally agree, but for some, this is a big question and something that weighs on their hearts. I have seen many times that people are just told 'no' to that question, when scripture really doesn't say either way. I don't think the verses I quoted show decidedly that they do go. But I think they show that God indeed does have a plan for them and as you said, it is a perfect plan. One which very well could be heaven.

Bless..ArtS

[KrispyKritter]

Some, like me, tend to see things as black and white. Others see pastels or something... but in the long run, issues like this one really are open for speculation, and not something to be dogmatic about... excuse the pun!

When I get to heaven I may find I am totally wrong... but hey, at least being wrong about it didnt prevent me from going to heaven!

And if I am wrong... whoa is me... I'm gonna have about 12 dogs, two horses and a raccoon up there to take care of! I'm gonna have to get a job in heaven just to feed them all!

[John Tyson]

Grace and peace to you all.

When my dog was run over by a car and killed, as any weeping little 6-year-old boy, I asked my saintly mother if my dog was going to heaven. She said, "Yes, all good dogs go to heaven."
So THERE!:B:

God bless,
John

[faline]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
I have a parrot... and I'm pretty sure he isn't going to heaven :nono

ROFL, LOL!!!

There is nothing beyond the Lord's power. I don't think he gave us the unique love for animals we have to take them away from us. My dog, Kelly girl, and I have gone through so much together...the Lord has miraculously saved that dog SO MANY TIMES, that I simply can't believe that when they're gone, they're gone.

Is there anything outside of the Lord's power? He can give us our animals if we want them there...and I believe with all of my heart that he does.

[RJs here]

so.... you guys think Terry James wrote his booklet for NOTHING!!? :confused


{one can purchase it for $8. ~ go to the home page of RR}



Thanks for the SCRIPTURES Mouse & Art!!! :thumb


When God looked at His creation ~ He called it *good*.


Yes, I believe pets go to heaven.

[kgreen20]

I hope so--because I have a history of pets I'd like to meet there! I also have a 2-year-old Chihuahua I yearn to have Raptured with me when the day comes (I've prayed for that, a number of times).



Kathy G.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by kgreen20
I hope so--because I have a history of pets I'd like to meet there! I also have a 2-year-old Chihuahua I yearn to have Raptured with me when the day comes (I've prayed for that, a number of times).



Kathy G.

Now there is something to comtemplate... if all the animals were raptured, what havoc that would create on the ecosystem!

But never fear, lost people who wont be raptured... you'll still have your cat to keep you company!! :heh :heh

[faline]

Originally posted by kgreen20
I hope so--because I have a history of pets I'd like to meet there! I also have a 2-year-old Chihuahua I yearn to have Raptured with me when the day comes (I've prayed for that, a number of times).



Kathy G.

Yeah, I hope my dog goes with me, too, 'cause she's blind.

[Jiggy37]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Either way, I dont think it is spelled out exactly in scripture that animals dont go to heaven... but the assumption has always been that they do not. The fact that they are never mentioned in the resurrection of the saints kinda gives us that indication.
Well, except of course for the armies of heaven riding white horses. ;):

Revelation 19:14 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=REV%2B19%3A14&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=KJV&x=10&y=13) -
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

[col311]

I'll leave it at this statement for now.


There will be animals in Heaven. I may add adtional comment in the future.

[BarbT]

...for some, this is a big question and something that weighs on their hearts. Yes, and I'm happy to see how sensitively you have all handled the subject. :thumb

The deep love I have for my animals comes from God. This is something I have talked to Him about & praised Him for countless times. I even pray over my pets, asking the Lord to keep them healthy and safe. :): The Holy Spirit seems to delight in my petitions {admittedly sometimes tearful} to translate these little creatures into eternal life with the rest of us. They are innocent, loving, sweet little animals. I want them to experience the joy of heaven too. :):

After years of prayers on this tender subject I am now confident that God has infinite room for ALL of His created beings! Guess we will SOON find out. ;):

Psalm 37:4
Delight yourself also in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart.

Matthew 6:19
.....lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.

[painkiller]

I just had to put one of my six dogs to sleep last week. He was a huge 98 lb Chow, his name was Skinner, he was abandoned by his family as they moved and they left him tied to a tree. He was taken to the Rescue League and thats where we got him from. He lived with us for 9 years and was a good a faithful protector, defender, friend, and pup. My wife picked his ashes up yesterday and said at least she still had her boy she could hold. I know I will see him again someday, along with my other furry gifts from God. The bible says" no greater love hath a man than to lay down his life for a friend" Skinner was willing to do that for us, and we for him.


http://rainbowsbridge.com
Just this side of heaven is a place called Rainbow Bridge.
When an animal dies that has been especially close to someone here, that pet goes to Rainbow Bridge. There are meadows and hills for all of our special friends so they can run and play together. There is plenty of food, water and sunshine, and our friends are warm and comfortable.

All the animals who had been ill and old are restored to health and vigor. Those who were hurt or maimed are made whole and strong again, just as we remember them in our dreams of days and times gone by. The animals are happy and content, except for one small thing; they each miss someone very special to them, who had to be left behind.
They all run and play together, but the day comes when one suddenly stops and looks into the distance. His bright eyes are intent. His eager body quivers. Suddenly he begins to run from the group, flying over the green grass, his legs carrying him faster and faster.

You have been spotted, and when you and your special friend finally meet, you cling together in joyous reunion, never to be parted again. The happy kisses rain upon your face; your hands again caress the beloved head, and you look once more into the trusting eyes of your pet, so long gone from your life but never absent from your heart.

Then you cross Rainbow Bridge together....

Author unknown

[John Tyson]

Grace and peace to you all.

"Love never fails (1 Cor 13:8a).

I don't know if our pets go to Heaven, but I know that the love we have for them will never fail. I suspect that the pure and righteous love we have for our animals will continue in eternity; not just a fond memory type of love, but an active, living love.

God bless,
John

[Sleestak]

This is always a tough question to address because of the love we have for pets. We'd hate to think that they can't be with us in Heaven. But ultimately, I believe the answer to the question is no. Here's why. I believe when we get to Heaven, we are going to be filled with such love for God and from God, that that is totally going to fill our being and be our focus for all eternity. We are going to be completely emersed in this love that earthly attachments are going to seem so so so small and insignificant. This may be why in Heaven we no longer will be married to our earthly spouse, that love too will be so so so much smaller than the love we will be receiving and sharing with God.

[John Tyson]

Grace and peace to you all.

Hm-m-m. Limiting love in Heaven? The love that a husband and wife for one another won’t cease once we get to heaven. Relationships will be changed between husband and wife, this we understand. But our love will be changed for an infinitely better, perfect love. Just because earthly love will be infinitely better in Heaven doesn't mean that the righteous love we have here for our animals will cease (Love never fails), it'll just be perfect love--God's love. God is Love.

Again, how the love we have for animals will be expressed in Heaven, I don’t know. But I suspect it will be a living, active love that will not hinder our love for one another or for our God.


God bless,
John

[Kyguy]

I thought they went to Heaven but my girlfriend brought up a good point. We're going to Heaven because we believe in Christ and we believe he died and rose again for us, for our sins.

Cat's can't believe that, so why would they go to Heaven? Obviously I don't know what a cat knows so I'm clueless, I just took her opinion as what it was, a good observation.

[m0use]

i always thought they dont sin. man is the ones that sinned, thats why we must know Jesus n he only died for man.. i mean, would you be able to sacrifice a sinful creature to god? didnt it have to be perfect?? you couldnt kill an animal that deserves to die anyways. dont these verse make out they know of God?


Romans 8:19 - The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.
Romans 8:20 - For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
Romans 8:21 - that[1] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
Romans 8:22 - We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Romans 8:23 - Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.
Romans 8:24 - For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has?
Romans 8:25 - But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

-
Job 12:7- "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds of the air, and they will tell you;
Job 12:8- or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish of the sea inform you.
Job 12:9- Which of all these does not know that the hand of the LORD has done this?
Job 12:10- In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind.

[Rom831]

Originally posted by Kyguy
I thought they went to Heaven but my girlfriend brought up a good point. We're going to Heaven because we believe in Christ and we believe he died and rose again for us, for our sins.

Cat's can't believe that, so why would they go to Heaven? Obviously I don't know what a cat knows so I'm clueless, I just took her opinion as what it was, a good observation.

The scriptures also say where there is no knowledge of the Lwa there is no condemnation. They don't know the Law therefore are not condemned.

Bless...ArtS

[uofaman]

Don't remember where I heard it, but I was once told that animals would not go to heaven because they had no soul. :confused

[Rom831]

Originally posted by uofaman
Don't remember where I heard it, but I was once told that animals would not go to heaven because they had no soul. :confused

Yes, but the word used in Genesis for all the creatures is 'nepish' which means soul. So that is not true. We also see in Genesis they have the breath of life and we see elsewhere that they have a spirit. (see my first reply)

Bless...ArtS

[Rom831]

Originally posted by Rom831
I have been told that too, but the word used in Genesis for all the creatures is 'nepish' which means soul. So that is not true. We also see in Genesis they have the breath of life and we see elsewhere that they have a spirit. (see my first reply)

Bless...ArtS

[Jacob]

The prophet Isaiah wrote in chapter 11 that, when the Lord Jesus Christ is sitting on David's throne and ruling over the earth during the Millenium, the "wolf will lie down with the lamb...the leopard will lie down with the goat, and the calf and the lion and the yearling together, the cow will feed with the bear, and the infant will play with the cobra."

I hope that my pets are in heaven. I take the position that if I still want them after I get there, then God will give them to me.

[gzusrulzme]

Solomon questions where the animals go----You know he loved them very much! After all, he had a zoo! He loved all the small things even the tiny flowers in the field kept him in awe at how they were created:

Ecclesiastes 3
21 Who knows the spirit of man, whether it goes upward, and the spirit of the beast, whether it goes downward to the earth? ~ AMP



Job 12
10 In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind. KJV


Revelation 16
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. KJV


Romans 8
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.



I have a parrot too and I know He is going to meet me there someday!!!!!

[MyJesus]

At first I would've said no but now you all have me thinking and I'm inquiring of the Lord on this! Believe me, I've got a golden retriever who I LOVE and would of course want him to be with me in heaven. But I never thought he would go anywhere but the dirt and that didn't make me sad because at least he wouldn't be judged! Having no sin, having no spirit- having no redemption, having no eternal life. That's still what I think is true but I'm asking the Lord too and I'll see what He says to me about it!

Now, will there be animals in the new heavens and new earth? Yes, because the Bible says so. But whether my sweetie, Baxter, will be there remains to be seen. I know the Lord wants to give us the desires of our hearts but let's not get extra-biblical here!(I'm not trying to flame anybody, I'm just asking, so please don't flame me back!) This opens up all new questions to me. Do all animals get raptured? Or just believers' pets? What about all the animals in the humane society who aren't anybody's pets? And last but not least, do I have to walk him and feed him in heaven? :D:

Any thoughts to help me on this?:B:

[BarbT]

.....his name was Skinner, .... He lived with us for 9 years and was a good a faithful protector, defender, friend, and pup. My wife picked his ashes up yesterday and said at least she still had her boy she could hold. I know I will see him again someday, along with my other furry gifts from God. The bible says" no greater love hath a man than to lay down his life for a friend" Skinner was willing to do that for us, and we for him. Thanks for this wonderful testimony, Painkiller. I'm crying with a mixture of grief and joy over your precious Skinner.

:thumb After praying about this thread, the Lord gave me this verse:

He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted. -- Job 5:9

:D: :D: :D:

:nod :nod :nod

[nanato3]

I've had so many dogs in my lifetime that I can hardly imagine them all being there!!!. Not that I would object. But two years ago my little toy terrier Binks, ran out the door as I carried in groceries. He was not only a terrier but a terror as well. I loved him with a passion.:redface Well at that moment a very large truck pulling a huge Winnebago roared down our normally quiet road. Binks ran after it. I watched as he was hit about three times. I screamed for what seemed forever. When I picked him up he wasn't mangled at all. His eyes were open and his breathing was shallow. I laid him in the grass and watched him die. I couldn't bring myself to ask God to spare him. My spirit did ask 'why' . After a few days I got an answer as clearly as if the Lord was speaking out loud.. He said "Binks was disobedient". now I am sure that this was from the Lord. That answer quieted my spirit and made me realize that it could have been one of my grandchildren. Do I hold out hope of seeing Binks again ??:nod

[Christ Rocks On]

There is not one word in scripture that supports that animals go to heaven; they don't have souls; Even Jesus said the birds in the air neither reap or sow.

.. yep i think they go to heaven. i doubt God would just destroy them all, they arent the ones that sinned. they are the best things on this earth. (my opinion, dont bite my head off) they show more love then most people.

But Jesus didn't die for animals, he died for MANKIND. Obviously, God thinks humans are of more value than animals, otherwise there would've been a plan of salvation for pets.

[m0use]

the bible doesnt say alot of things. read some of the other posts about animals not sinning.

[gzusrulzme]

Why would the scriptures say that even God knows when even a sparrow that costs but 1 cent falls to its death???? He knows each one of them!

Why would he mention this if it wasn't important information?:confused


Im sure that animals go to heaven and will definately without a doubt be a part of the millenial kingdom.

[Medic911]

IMHO animals do not have souls.

...but only God knows.

[BarbT]

But Jesus didn't die for animals But He did CREATE them. Where is it written that He doesn't love them too? :):Animals don't have soulsSouls or no souls, God can breathe life eternal into anything or anyone He desires. Who knows? Maybe the prayers of the saints are the key to seeing individual pets in glory so PRAY we will!!! :thumb

He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all --
how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? -- Romans 8:32

Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy--meditate on these things. -- Phillippians 4:8

[Christ Rocks On]

Why would the scriptures say that even God knows when even a sparrow that costs but 1 cent falls to its death???? He knows each one of them!

I think this was written to point out how God knows every detail about everything He created, just like it's pointed out he knows the number of hairs on our heads. :):

[Christ Rocks On]

But He did CREATE them. Where is it written that He doesn't love them too?

I never said that He doesn't love them, please do no put words into my mouth.

Let's point out the obvious.

There is no plan of salvation for animals. I do believe there will be animals in Heaven (at least horses, according to Revelation), but I don't think Fido, Fluffy or Tweety will inherit eternal life.

Again, Jesus said in Matthew 6:26:

"Behold the birds of the air: they do not sow, nor do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you (humans) not worth much more than they?"

Edit- Just wanted to say I made this reply with no ill feelings towards you. I just wanted to ask you not to put words in my mouth. :): :wave

[Rom831]

How can you all continue to say that animals have no souls when the very word used in Genesis one when God created all the 'creatures' of the earth is 'nepish' which MEANS 'soul'???

Nepish = that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man

Bless...ArtS

[faith4ever]

I do believe our pets go to Heaven. Anyone who has experienced the love of a pet, I can't see how they can say no.

My dogs love. Total trust and pure love in them. How can a creature that can love so unconditionally, not have a soul?

God created the animals first, before us. What was his purpose in doing that? Why did He even create them at all? Did He create "throw away" creatures that have no souls and are dispensable? I really doubt that. God created them with a purpose in mind. He knew we were going to become attached to them. He is all seeing and knew the final outcome of everything before He even created it. So, is He so cruel as to create a creature, whom He knew we would fall in love with, only to find out later we would lose them forever? No way!

The Bible is for us and our salvation. No where does our salvation depend on whether animals go to Heaven or not, right? He knew we would wonder about it, but He also wants us to trust Him on it too. Animals did not fall like we did. They were instructed by God to be afraid of us after the fall, I believe. (That may be scripturally wrong so don't quote me on that) But, I believe the ones who we do form close relations with, it is like seeing how God meant for it to be with us, and the animals.

Oh yes, I do believe they will be in Heaven with us. :nod

[andy]

This is something that I have wondered about and discussed with my wife.

As to whether or not our pets go to or will be with us in heaven, I do not know.

I do know that nothing is impossible with our God! I leave that decision to Him and trust Him with all that I have. Our God is a loving and merciful God and He is worthy, oh He is so worthy. Have peace in your spirit, God is just and He will always do what is best and right for us.:wave

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by faith4ever
I do believe our pets go to Heaven. Anyone who has experienced the love of a pet, I can't see how they can say no.

My dogs love. Total trust and pure love in them. How can a creature that can love so unconditionally, not have a soul?
That is an interesting position.

Let me ask you this... Does a Dog that has never been 'owned' also have Love? Its the same animal, but not associated with a human owner.

[Angel of God]

Originally posted by Hootmon
That is an interesting position.

Let me ask you this... Does a Dog that has never been 'owned' also have Love? Its the same animal, but not associated with a human owner.

I believe that a Dog that doesn't have an owner still has alot of Love to give just like all dogs, except no one to give their love to.
Many humans who see a stray dog in the street doesnt want anything to do with the filthy creature, cuz they dont know where the dog has been.
Only a few people would actually want to love the dog back for what it is. I should know cuz I had a stray dog follow me home, and me and my family cleaned him up, fed him, and took him to a vet.....now we take care of him until he "departs" from us. He has the most love I have seen in any dog, cat, bird, hamster, ferret I have ever had....since the day we brought him home.

[circumcision]

My humble opinion is they don't go to heaven. Without getting overly deep on the subject, I believe they do have a soul, but they don't have a spirit. It is our soul that gives us our emotions, and animals do have emotions. It is our spirit that seeks God and relates to God, which I believe animals do not have or seek. Our soul is the reason we will be able to recognize each other in heaven. But I believe only man has a spirit. The Bible has many references to there being a difference between soul and spirit. For example: Hebrews 4:12- "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit..." . Studying the greek, the soul (psyche) is what makes me who I am. The spirit (pneuma) is the immaterial part of man. We are not a spirit, we have a spirit. Our soul is how you and I relate to each other and our pets. Our spirit is how we relate to God. Every living creature has a body. Plants have a body but obviously no soul or spirit, at least I hope we can all stand on that common ground, perhaps I am being too presumptive. Animals have a body and soul. Only man has a body, soul and spirit. When we pass, our soul and spirit pass on. The soul is how we will be recognizable. Just my opinion, perhaps we won't really know until we get there.

[Shyguy]

No pets in heaven I dont see the point its not our permenant place to live anyway. There will be animals of course that are on the new earth this is spoken of ....

Part of the problem I see is that people place more worth on their pets than their next door neighbor.

What about people who love nonstandard pets? A researcher and his blackwidows or snakes. How about his amoeba farm or ant colony .....

I just dont see it.

[BarbT]

I just wanted to ask you not to put words in my mouth. No one did. I just asked about God's love for the animals He created and you have dodged the question. :):

Part of the problem I see is that people place more worth on their pets than their next door neighbor. Oh yes, I see the logic in this statement. If we love our pets that automatically means we don't care abo..........never mind. :lol

Saints, God is capable of ANYTHING. We shouldn't make assumptions that He can't or won't bring pets into eternity. His *neighborhood* is bigger than all of our pea minds put together can fathom -- there is plenty of room!

Let no one bring you down on this subject. After all, they are just as much *in the dark* as we are about it. In the meantime, PRAY for your precious pets! I have a feeling that God honors those prayers! :nod

[Rom831]

Originally posted by circumcision
My humble opinion is they don't go to heaven. Without getting overly deep on the subject, I believe they do have a soul, but they don't have a spirit. It is our soul that gives us our emotions, and animals do have emotions. It is our spirit that seeks God and relates to God, which I believe animals do not have or seek. Our soul is the reason we will be able to recognize each other in heaven. But I believe only man has a spirit. The Bible has many references to there being a difference between soul and spirit. For example: Hebrews 4:12- "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit..." . Studying the greek, the soul (psyche) is what makes me who I am. The spirit (pneuma) is the immaterial part of man. We are not a spirit, we have a spirit. Our soul is how you and I relate to each other and our pets. Our spirit is how we relate to God. Every living creature has a body. Plants have a body but obviously no soul or spirit, at least I hope we can all stand on that common ground, perhaps I am being too presumptive. Animals have a body and soul. Only man has a body, soul and spirit. When we pass, our soul and spirit pass on. The soul is how we will be recognizable. Just my opinion, perhaps we won't really know until we get there.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-22 18 I also thought, "As for men, God tests
them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"
22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

Notice vs 21. Animals DO have a spirit. Vs 19 says they have the same breath. Genesis 1 shows they have a soul.

Bless...ArtS

[gzusrulzme]

Originally posted by Rom831
Ecclesiastes 3:18-22 18 I also thought, "As for men, God tests
them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"
22 So I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to enjoy his work, because that is his lot. For who can bring him to see what will happen after him?

Notice vs 21. Animals DO have a spirit. Vs 19 says they have the same breath. Genesis 1 shows they have a soul.

Bless...ArtS




Thank you--THANK YOU!

Im not convinced otherwise--try telling my children that our cat was not healed by God.....she was dying and we didn't have money to take her to the vet. So my kids asked the neighborhood children to come over and pray for her. Well, they did it. And ya know what???? I totally thought that the cat would be dead when I got home from work--but she greeted me at the front door instead!!! He loved her enough to heal her for us. We are simply "borrowing" her right now, but I believe that we will see her someday in heaven.....

Animals do have emotions too----i've seen it over and over. They show happiness, and excitement, anger, sadness.

[SapphireGrl]

Originally posted by Shyguy
No pets in heaven I dont see the point its not our permenant place to live anyway. There will be animals of course that are on the new earth this is spoken of ....

Part of the problem I see is that people place more worth on their pets than their next door neighbor.

What about people who love nonstandard pets? A researcher and his blackwidows or snakes. How about his amoeba farm or ant colony .....

I just dont see it.
I would have to agree. I think people are too quick to bring animals up to the same level as people because they love their pets. Well, animals are not like people. Animals are animals. They do not form a relationship with God. And I also do not believe that they have an eternal spirit that lives on and the bible does not say that they do either. And there being animals in heaven, such as the white horses of revelation, does not mean those were once horses that lived on earth and then died and went to heaven.

It is simply difficult for me to believe that every creature that has ever slithered, walked, crawled, and buzzed around the earth then died and went to heaven. It is hard for me to believe that flies, gnats, and bees have an eternal afterlife. It is hard for me to believe that salamanders, bats, hippos, sheep, and squid have an eternal afterlife. These things are not like people.

I've said this before and I still believe it. If people want their pets with them, I honestly believe that God will grant the request and bring them back. But I believe that it is dangerous to bring animals up to the level of people and say that even animals, sea creatures, and insects have an eternal spirit in them that moves on to heaven when they die. I understand why people want to believe it, I used to want to myself, but I just don't believe it's true.

However, people will believe what they want to believe and since God did not address this, it's easy to find scripture to use in favor of your opinion either way. So if it comforts people to believe their pets go to heaven, it doesn't bother me at all. I don't agree with it but it has nothing to do with me.

[Budgies]

I think this is a lovely article. http://www.pet-loss.net/heaven.html

[ThePatintheHat]

For those who say that animals don't go to heaven because they can't be saved:

Animal sacrafice was ordained by God to forshadow Christ's sacrifice. The physical perfection of the animal was important to forshadow the perfection of Christ, but animals were also, in my opinion, used for this forshadowing because animals don't sin as we do.

[pilgrimian]

Cats and dogs and parrots and mice and goldfish and iguanas and all the rest...have no souls. God didn't provide salvation for them--they merely must live in the fallen world (which is man's fault).

It's a nice thought to wish that one's cat or dog would be in the Messianic Kingdom and beyond...but eternal life was never offered to them. And I would like to believe it...but there's no basis. I am a real cat-lover.

Godspeed,
Matthew

[RobinB]

<<"Yes, all good dogs go to heaven.">>

Hey, there was a movie with this title a while back!!

Seriously, I stumbled across a website once that had a very negative article on humans "obsession" with dogs. As if we are *wasting* all our love and attention on them. Made me sad.



:(:

[Rom831]

Originally posted by pilgrimian
Cats and dogs and parrots and mice and goldfish and iguanas and all the rest...have no souls.

The word used in Genesis 1:24 we translate to "creatures" is "nepish' which IS the word for 'soul'. So yes, animals do have a soul. Or is the difference that God breathed 'the breath of life' into man, not animals (I've heard this one before)? Look at Genesis 6:17, 715, 21-22. They too have the breath of life. Or is it not really a soul that they don't have, but a spirit (another one I've heard)? Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 compares the spirit of man to that of animals saying we cant tell if the spirit of a partidular man OR animal will go up (heaven) or down (hell). Or is it they can't be saved because they cannot accept Jesus? We also see scripture says where there is no law, there is no condemnation. They were given no law, therefor there is also no condemnation for them. Then, Romans 8:19-22 shows that ALL of creation growns and waits for the day "that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. "

Not to mention, where do the angles of the apocolypse and Jesus get their horses in Revelation?

Bless...ArtS

[keeotee]

Since I can't find any scripture decidely saying either way, then all any of us have to offer are our opinions.

So here's mine...

God. now that I'm in Heaven, I wanted to ask You a question if I could? "Sure, that would be fine. What is it?". Well, You know that I had many pets on earth right? "Yes". And you know how much I lvoed them and how much they loved me, right? "Yes". Well, You also know how much they meant to me right? "Yes". And you know how much I missed each one when they died, right? "Yes". And you know how much I miss them now and how much I would like to be together with them again, right? "Yes". Well, would it be a bad thing to have them with me here in Heaven? I mean, would it not be a good thing? "No, it wouldn't be a bad thing and yes it would be a good thing". Well, I was wondering then if You would bring my animals to life and to Heaven for me. Would You do that for me cause You love me so much and it would be a good thing?

"NO". But why not? "I don't know. It's just not proper protocol". Why isn't is proper protocol? "No reason really. I mean sure I could do it as I do have the power and it would be a good thing and I do love you that much, but I don't know, it just isn't proper protocol". So there's no real reason or good reason not to then? "No, not really, other than it isn't proper protocol". So then let me see if I have this right... it would be a good thing to do. You love me that much. And you have the power. But it wouldn't be proper protocol but You don't know why it isn't proper protocol. Does that about sum it up then? "Yep". I see, I guess.

I think the arguments in favor of it far outweigh those against. I also think God is a reasonable God in such matters. I'm counting on it.

Of course, then you have those like a friend of mine that tried flawed logic to argue against it. He said, but when you get to Heaven you won't feel the way about your pets that you do now. I asked him why not. Well, because you just won't. It won't be important to you then. Gdo will take that away from you.

Now, what are we to conclude from this position? I'll tell you what we can conclude - God will take away from me something that is very precious to me. This would be a form of mind control or brainwashing, at the very least it would be dishonest. Now before you jump all over that consider it first. Somethings will change, but they will be quite naturally natural changes. This would not qualify as one of them.

So, bottom line is, God takes something from me that means so much and is not a bad thing, or simply denies it to me -and again it is not a bad thing.

I've yet to hear anyone come up with a good argument as to why God would do this. You can give it a shot if you like, but I'm not buying it. I've thought it through.

So, logically it would make much more sense for God to accomodate us in this regrad than to not. And logic is more than aceptable here considering we have no scripture either way solid enough to make the matter known.

And that's my take on it.

[pilgrimian]

Originally posted by Rom831
The word used in Genesis 1:24 we translate to "creatures" is "nepish' which IS the word for 'soul'. So yes, animals do have a soul. Or is the difference that God breathed 'the breath of life' into man, not animals (I've heard this one before)? Look at Genesis 6:17, 715, 21-22. They too have the breath of life. Or is it not really a soul that they don't have, but a spirit (another one I've heard)? Ecclesiastes 3:18-21 compares the spirit of man to that of animals saying we cant tell if the spirit of a partidular man OR animal will go up (heaven) or down (hell). Or is it they can't be saved because they cannot accept Jesus? We also see scripture says where there is no law, there is no condemnation. They were given no law, therefor there is also no condemnation for them. Then, Romans 8:19-22 shows that ALL of creation growns and waits for the day "that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. "

Not to mention, where do the angles of the apocolypse and Jesus get their horses in Revelation?

Bless...ArtS

Hmmmmm...interesting thoughts. I think their a bit far-reaching. Nevertheless, they are interesting.

The Ecclesiastes passage merely shows that both man and beast return to the dust. However, man's fate is different because we must face God (Ecclesiastes 12:14).

What do you make of Jesus saying that we are more important than many sparrows in Matthew 10? God loves His creation, this is true. But I still don't see that there is anything conclusively showing that pets have any place in the Messianic Kingdom. There may be pets who make it through the Tribulation...and they will be there. Certainly the horses used in the end times will be provided somehow. This doesn't mean that those horses had former lives in the Kentucky Derby.

Indeed, all creation groans and waits...it looks forward to being cleansed, as well. There will be a New Earth, New Heavens, a New Jerusalem. I don't quite see how this pertains to cats and dogs, though.

Not trying to play devil's advocate, but I just don't see it.

Your argument could also be used to stop missionaries from spreading God's Word. If certain tribes do not hear about Jesus...then they are most likely going to be in Heaven. Once they hear about Jesus, though, they are either damned or accepting. For their sakes it might be better not to follow Christ's Great Commission....hmmmmm?

Godspeed,
Matthew

[Rom831]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pilgrimian
The Ecclesiastes passage merely shows that both man and beast return to the dust.

No, it says who knows if the spirit will go up or down. Not just merely that they return to dust.

What do you make of Jesus saying that we are more important than many sparrows in Matthew 10?

That we are more important. But it also says that God will not forget His creation.

God loves His creation, this is true. But I still don't see that there is anything conclusively showing that pets have any place in the Messianic Kingdom.

There isnt, I agree. But what is shown in the scriptures, to me, far more heavilly leans towards they will be there as, again to me, gives no hint that they wont.

There may be pets who make it through the Tribulation...and they will be there. Certainly the horses used in the end times will be provided somehow. This doesn't mean that those horses had former lives in the Kentucky Derby.

Agreed, but they ARE horses and John IS in heaven when he sees the horse before him as well as Jesus is in heaven when he calls the riders on the horses.

Indeed, all creation groans and waits...it looks forward to being cleansed, as well. There will be a New Earth, New Heavens, a New Jerusalem. I don't quite see how this pertains to cats and dogs, though.

Cats and dogs are a part of God's creation.

Your argument could also be used to stop missionaries from spreading God's Word. If certain tribes do not hear about Jesus...then they are most likely going to be in Heaven. Once they hear about Jesus, though, they are either damned or accepting. For their sakes it might be better not to follow Christ's Great Commission....hmmmmm?

And I agree fully. I believe those that never hear are not condemned. Be it because they are too young to actually comprehende, mentally hadicapped, or simply in such a remote area as to never be exposed to it. But we still have God's COMMAND to GO. So who are we to disagree by saying, 'no, this way is better."

Bless...ArtS

[pilgrimian]

Originally posted by Rom831
[QUOTE]Originally posted by pilgrimian
The Ecclesiastes passage merely shows that both man and beast return to the dust.

No, it says who knows if the spirit will go up or down. Not just merely that they return to dust.

What do you make of Jesus saying that we are more important than many sparrows in Matthew 10?

That we are more important. But it also says that God will not forget His creation.

God loves His creation, this is true. But I still don't see that there is anything conclusively showing that pets have any place in the Messianic Kingdom.

There isnt, I agree. But what is shown in the scriptures, to me, far more heavilly leans towards they will be there as, again to me, gives no hint that they wont.

There may be pets who make it through the Tribulation...and they will be there. Certainly the horses used in the end times will be provided somehow. This doesn't mean that those horses had former lives in the Kentucky Derby.

Agreed, but they ARE horses and John IS in heaven when he sees the horse before him as well as Jesus is in heaven when he calls the riders on the horses.

Indeed, all creation groans and waits...it looks forward to being cleansed, as well. There will be a New Earth, New Heavens, a New Jerusalem. I don't quite see how this pertains to cats and dogs, though.

Cats and dogs are a part of God's creation.

Your argument could also be used to stop missionaries from spreading God's Word. If certain tribes do not hear about Jesus...then they are most likely going to be in Heaven. Once they hear about Jesus, though, they are either damned or accepting. For their sakes it might be better not to follow Christ's Great Commission....hmmmmm?

And I agree fully. I believe those that never hear are not condemned. Be it because they are too young to actually comprehende, mentally hadicapped, or simply in such a remote area as to never be exposed to it. But we still have God's COMMAND to GO. So who are we to disagree by saying, 'no, this way is better."

Bless...ArtS

Hmmmmmm...

Okay, I'll bite.

What about the Rapture? If animals have no law...then they all ought to be raptured. What did they do to deserve their state? However, in Revelation 6:7-8 there are wild animals that will attack man for food.

Revelation 6

7When he opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" 8And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider's name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

How can we say that only domesticated animals will go to Heaven, or be present in the Messianic Kingdom?

Godspeed,
Matthew

[keeotee]

This is amazing to me. Since no one knows, and since the Bible speaks to the issue as in NOT AT ALL, we can only speculate.

You know, sometimes you have to go beyond scripture when it doesn't speak directly to an issue. But how does one go beyond scripture and do so safely? Well, in truth, you are not going beyond it, you are merely exercising your knowledge of it. If the scripture does not speak to an issue directly, then quit trying to force it. Simply consider Who God is based upon His Word. And in light of that, consider what might be.

Wrong approach guys trying to make a square scripture fit into a round question.

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by keeotee
...since the Bible speaks to the issue as in NOT AT ALL, we can only speculate. :nod

[Rom831]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pilgrimian
What about the Rapture? If animals have no law...then they all ought to be raptured. What did they do to deserve their state? However, in Revelation 6:7-8 there are wild animals that will attack man for food.

I don't know if they will go, some or all, at the rapture or await the glorious appearing. I don't know if they will go at all. I am only showing scriptures that seem to indicate they will.

How can we say that only domesticated animals will go to Heaven, or be present in the Messianic Kingdom?

I wouldn't assume that.

Bless...ArtS

[purplelinny]

Not looked at this thread before... if our pets do join us in heaven, I hope someone else will take responsibility for cleaning out my turtle tank :rolleyes
--
Lynda

[PanTerra]

Dogs go to Heaven, cats go to Hell. :freaked