Blood on the Doorposts

[joy4Him2day]

I have been reading on two other threads about Kaabaliaism (sp?). It is the religion that Madonna is into.....
anyway,
I found it interesting about the red string to ward off the Evil Eye, someone even posted a pic of the evil eye jewelry...
I think it was also mentioned about a red ribbon or bracelet worn...
anyway,
I found it interesting that Feng Shue also uses red ribbon on doorknobs and entryways for good luck (however they say it),
anyway,
you know how satan counterfeits everything,
anyway,
you know how we are washed by the blood of the lamb, and how important the symbolism of the blood on the doorposts in the OT
was ,
if you think that little red ribbon isn't important.....I think it is satan's mockery of that beautiful rescue of God's children......
doesn't that make you angry?
i am gonna be more grieved than I was before if I see anyone wearing that red ribbon or jewelry......
i am sorry Lord,
so sorry......

:cry :cry

[Joshua's Gen]

Scarlet cord... Book of Joshua...
foreshadowing of the blood as well.

http://www.crimsonstained.com/jp/BGScarletCord.png

[Hootmon]

A scarlet cord was tied to the 'Scape Goat'. It would turn white if the sacrifice was acceptable to God.

It no longer turned white after Christ's sacrifice.

[joint heir]

:thumb


cool.....a day does not pass when I don't learn something new here at RR

[joy4Him2day]

I did not know that. I just knew that they tied a rope on the priests ankle so that if he expired while offering (offering not acceptable), they could pull him out without having to go in to get him.......

[BHiles]

Originally posted by Hootmon
A scarlet cord was tied to the 'Scape Goat'. It would turn white if the sacrifice was acceptable to God.

It no longer turned white after Christ's sacrifice.


Do you have a source that confirms this? I would like to read about it.

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by BHiles
Do you have a source that confirms this? I would like to read about it. I knew someone would ask that eventually. Was hoping Antsy would drop by before then.

Looking...

[Joshua's Gen]

Originally posted by BHiles
Do you have a source that confirms this? I would like to read about it.

Let me kind of set this up for you so that it makes sense. Every year on the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) there were two goats taken to the High Priest at the Temple. They cast lots to see which one would die as a sacrifice. The other goat would have the sins of Israel symbolically put on it. The High Priest and the Elders of Israel would place their hands on the 'scapegoat' and confess the sins of the nation over it. Then it would be lead out into the wilderness, far enough to make sure it could never come back. In fact some sages tell that the person who took it out would often push it off a cliff to make sure it did not come back to Jerusalem. This was done because they believed that if it came back their sins would come with it.

Now when the scapegoat was taken away the Talmud tells us that the High Priest would put a piece of scarlet wool cord on the door to the Temple. The sages say that the cord would turn white and then the High Priest would proclaim to the people that God had accepted their sacrifice and forgiven their sins. Okay with that all in mind now read about Yoma 39:

The Talmud (Tractate Yoma 39:b) records in essence that on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) it was customary to tie some red wool to the temple gate. Miraculously, after the lamb died to take away or atone for our sin, the red wool always turned white as a sign to the people that they had been forgiven. But during the 40 years before the destruction of the temple and the altar in 70 AD, the red wool tied to the temple gate remained red. The rabbis concluded God was saying, "I will not forgive, I will not forgive."

Now think about those dates. We know the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, so 40 years before that would be about the year 30 AD. What happened about the year 30 AD? Christ, the perfect sacrifice died for our sins. If the people had accepted God's perfect Lamb they would not need another scapegoat. God quite forgiving sins through the scapegoat at that time. Unfortunately the Jews including the very sages who wrote this did not see the significance of that date. I guess if they had they would not have written what they did because it sure helps prove who Jesus Christ was.


Source (http://www.behindthebadge.net/apologetics/discuss182.html)

-- Talmud -- Source (http://www.menorah.org/whentlir.html)

It is not our purpose to take sides in these disputes. We are not obliged to accept the authority of the Talmud, as the Talmud does not claim Holy Spirit inspiration. However, we do want to point out some Talmudical sayings that should challenge our thinking regarding our beliefs and attitudes.

Forty years before the Holy Temple was destroyed the following things happened: The lot for the Yom Kippur goat ceased to be supernatural; the red cord of wool that used to change to white [as a symbol of God's forgiveness) now remained red and did not change and the western candle in the candlestick in the sanctuary refused to burn continually while the doors of the Holy Temple would open of themselves. [Tractate Yoma 39:b]

The Talmud takes this clearly as a sign of the departure of the SHECHINA GLORY from the Temple in Jerusalem. Surely there is a great coincidence in that these things happened forty years before the Temple was destroyed. This brings us to about A.D. 30; the time when the Lord Yeshua (Jesus) died on a hill outside of Jerusalem. He called on the people of Israel to believe in His Messiahship, yet the majority refused!

[wallflower]

I've heard about this before. Very fascinating!

Though your sins be as scarlet they shall be white as wool.



Great stuff!




God bless,


my middle name is justin

[Hootmon]

Thanks JG.

I found another... The Goat Shown to the People

The lot having designated each of the two goats, the high-priest tied a tongue-shaped piece of scarlet cloth to the horn of the goat for Azazel--the so-called 'scape-goat'--and another round the throat of the goat for Jehovah, which was to be slain. The goat that was to be sent forth was now turned round towards the people, and stood facing them, waiting, as it were, till their sins should be laid on him, and he would carry them forth into 'a land not inhabited.' Assuredly a more marked type of Christ could not be conceived, as He was brought forth by Pilate and stood before the people, just as He was about to be led forth, bearing the iniquity of the people. And, as if to add to the significance of the rite, tradition has it that when the sacrifice was fully accepted the scarlet mark which the scape-goat had borne became white, to symbolise the gracious promise in Isaiah 1:18; but it adds that this miracle did not take place for forty years before the destruction of the Temple!
The Temple: Its Ministry and Services - Alfred Edersheim - Chapter 16 (http://www.piney.com/Edersheim16.html#choosing)

[joy4Him2day]

wow :freaked :freaked :freaked

I NEVER heard of this. This is amazing.
This board is really interesting.

I am glad that you guys are posting this info.
Thanks alot.
:D:

[Joshua's Gen]

Originally posted by joy4Him2day
wow :freaked :freaked :freaked

I NEVER heard of this. This is amazing.
This board is really interesting.

I am glad that you guys are posting this info.
Thanks alot.
:D:

Hey joy (this is Joel, - the guy speaking ;): :lol)!
I'm glad you enjoy, it's a wonderful board. :):

I've had this tradition in my mind before, but I'm wondering is..

is this just a tradition the Jews started - putting a piece of scarlet wool cord on the door to the Temple ... or is there biblical backing for such an activity?

Thanks! :wave

[Hootmon]

Check out Hebrews 9

[Paul]

Originally posted by Joshua's Gen
Scarlet cord... Book of Joshua...
foreshadowing of the blood as well.


Have you ever heard this?

This account from the Talmud in Yoma 9a

"Our Rabbis taught: during the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple, the lot for the L-rd (on Yom Kippur) did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white (on the neck of the scapegoat); nor did the western-most light shine; and the doors of the Hekal (Temple) would open by themselves."

On Yom Kippur a sacrifice was made on behalf of the people for forgiveness of sins. After the sacrifice was made a scarlet thread turning white was a sign that their sins were forgiven. (See Isaiah "Though your sins be as scarlet they will be made white as snow...")

In the year that Jesus was crucified the sacrifice was no longer accepted by God. The Rabbis saw this as a sign that the temple would be destroyed. They explain why in Yoma 9b...

"Why was the Second Temple destroyed, seeing that the people were engaged in Torah, commandments and charitable deeds? Because at that time there was hatred without a cause."

Who was hated without cause? The Romans? Certainly not! Rabbi Yeshua ben Yosef quoted Psalm 35:19, "Let not those gloat over me who are my enemies without cause; let not those who hate me without reason maliciously wink the eye."

Jesus said "They hated me without reason" (John 15:25)

[Joshua's Gen]

Well I did just post it right here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1447419#post1447419) :laugh

It's fascinating isn't it? :nod

[Paul]

Originally posted by Joshua's Gen
Well I did just post it right here (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1447419#post1447419) :laugh

It's fascinating isn't it? :nod

I meant have you seen it since it was posted 2 posts ago :pound

I only saw your first post and was so excited about sharing that cool story that I didn't bother reading the rest of the post! :doh

[Joshua's Gen]

Originally posted by Paul
I meant have you seen it since it was posted 2 posts ago :pound

I only saw your first post and was so excited about sharing that cool story that I didn't bother reading the rest of the post! :doh

Nothing to be shamed over, I've done the same myself :redface :lol

Originally posted by Hootmon
Check out Hebrews 9

Well I'm reading it, and I see it's talking about Christ's sacrifice and the way of the Temple.. but no instruction about a scarlet cord tied to the temple's gates. :confused

I just didn't know if this was a tradition the Jews themselves started, as with the 'tying a rope around the High Priest's ankles' - because such a command is not given.. in say, the book of Leviticus.

[Paul]

Originally posted by Joshua's Gen
Well I'm reading it, and I see it's talking about Christ's sacrifice and the way of the Temple.. but no instruction about a scarlet cord tied to the temple's gates. :confused



Hey! Did you know there was a scarlet cord that use to turn white after...oh, wait, I'm doing it again.


:B:

[Joshua's Gen]

bwahahaha :pound

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by Joshua's Gen
Well I'm reading it, and I see it's talking about Christ's sacrifice and the way of the Temple.. but no instruction about a scarlet cord tied to the temple's gates. :confused

I just didn't know if this was a tradition the Jews themselves started, as with the 'tying a rope around the High Priest's ankles' - because such a command is not given.. in say, the book of Leviticus. You had asked for a Scriptural reference. Verse 19 refers to the Scarlet Wool.

From verse 11 on it is describing Christ's function os High Priest and is a reflection of Temple worship.

[joy4Him2day]

:wave I got the guy part right.......
but you stumped me on the other...I am not familiar with the Talmud....or Jewish tradition/order

I sure am enjoying this thread though.....:):

[MikeJ]

Hal Lindsey has pointed out that the way that the blood was applied to the doorway in the OT forms the cross. One dab of blood on the mantel and one on each side of the door posts. Just thought it was interesting.

Mike

[7Rock]

There was also a scarlet thread tied around the finger of the twin boy that was born to Tamarah (fathered by Judah), when he stuck his fist out first, then pulled it back in.

I could never figure out what that meant.
Maybe he was supposed to inherit something as the firstborn, but didn`t because his brother was delivered first?

[joy4Him2day]

that is so funny that you should post that, because I thought of doing it myself. I looked in Matthew Henry commentary and he doesn't address it at all. But you wonder what the significance of mentioning it was......
Matt Henry did comment about the twins being in the line of the tribe of Judah,......but it does stick out to me about the thread, just cause we are talking about it....
if anyone knows anything, please tell.
:):

[joy4Him2day]

Hey, its been almost a year.....any answers?
Also, I have some thoughts to post.....but, gotta leave for church, bbl.
:):

[antsinmypants]

Scarlet thread tied to baby:

Tamar in trevail:

Gen 38:27 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins [were] in her womb.
Gen 38:28 And it came to pass, when she travailed, that [the one] put out [his] hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.
Gen 38:29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? [this] breach [be] upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.
Gen 38:30 And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.



It was to prove who came out first... so that he would get the blessing of the first born.

Another time that twins trevailed as such in the womb and in birth, was with Jacob and Esau.

However, Esau came out red and hairy- like a garment:

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations [are] in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and [the one] people shall be stronger than [the other] people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
Gen 25:24 And when her days to be delivered were fulfilled, behold, [there were] twins in her womb.
Gen 25:25 And the first came out red, all over like an hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.
Gen 25:26 And after that came his brother out, and his hand took hold on Esau's heel; and his name was called Jacob: and Isaac [was] threescore years old when she bare them.

[antsinmypants]

I knew someone would ask that eventually. Was hoping Antsy would drop by before then...

I was looking for this, and happened upon it in one of the emails I sent myself of interesting things to research & consider..


From the Talmud:

In the time of the forty years during which Simeon the Upright was
high-priest, the lot for [YHVH] always came into the high-priest's
right hand, but thereafter it sometimes fell into his right,
sometimes into his left hand. And the tongue of crimson wool, during
the time of Simeon the Upright, always became white. But after Simeon
the Upright, sometimes it became white, sometimes it remained red. In
Simeon the Upright's time the western light ever burned, but after
him it sometimes burned and sometimes went out. The fire of the altar
ever waxed in strength, and except the two measures of wood
prescribed they had not to add any wood, in Simeon the Upright's
time; but after him, sometimes the fire persisted and sometimes wood
had to be added. In his time a blessing was sent into the Omer, the
two loaves of bread, and the showbread, and every priest who received
only the size of an olive became satiated, and some was left over;
but after him, these things were cursed, and every priest got only
the size of a bean. And the delicate priests refused to take it
altogether, but the voracious ones accepted and consumed. It once
happened, one took his own share and his fellow's: he was nicknamed
"robber" till his death.


... The year when Simeon the Upright had to die, he told the sages:
"Children, know ye that this year I am going to die." They asked him:
"How dost thou know?" He said: "Every year when I entered and left
the Holy of Holies, I was accompanied by one old man, dressed in
white and enveloped in white; but this year it was an old man attired
in black and in a black turban, and he entered with me but did not go
out with me." And after the festivals, he got sick, and died.

p. 60

[paragraph continues] And thenceforth priests ceased to bless Israel
with the name of [YHVH], but used ["Ad-nai"] [(the L-rd)].

...Forty years before the Temple was destroyed, the lot never came
into the right hand, the red wool did not become white, the western
light did not burn, and the gates of the Temple opened of themselves,
till the time that R. Johanan b. Zakkai rebuked them, saying:
"Temple, Temple, why alarmest thou us? We know that thou art destined
to be destroyed. For of thee hath prophesied Zechariah ben Iddo
[Zech. xi. 1]: 'Open thy doors, O Lebanon, and the fire shall eat thy
cedars.'"

[Joel]

I was looking for this, and happened upon it in one of the emails I sent myself of interesting things to research & consider..

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?p=2849363#post2849363

Yup, I posted that there.

[Joel]

I have a more in-depth response to be posted later to the question you pose joy4him, and 7rock. :):

[Joel]

For awhile, I myself wondered what this meant, as it seemed 'deeper', begging for a little investigation.

I couldn't understand it either, but tonight I started 'digging', and humbly believe to have found some insight, but of course, that is up to you.

Please read this link quoted. . .

http://www.hayleycourt.com/brightness.htm

There is reason to believe that when Jesus comes the second time he will emit a brightness equal to or greater than the sun.

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." [2Th2.8]

Here is a brightness, so intense, so consuming, that one might imagine it to be rivaled only by a solar flare, and yet the Greek meaning of the word "brightness" as used here by Paul is "an appearance; appearing" and not "heat", or "fire", as we might imagine. The "brightness" that Christ will emit on that day will be unique in its intensity and most certainly an extraordinary phenomenom. But all this is reserved for His second coming.

With Christ's first coming, we find that He is associated with "light" as in: "the light of the world", the "light of men," and the "true light." But, Jesus also made this pronouncement: "suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather DIVISION" [Lk12.51]. We seldom think of the Lord as creating a breach, but can there be any doubt that the Word of God can cause division? Even the Christian community suffers schisms, not only in the churches, but also in government. Unity is always a desirable goal, but in the church it is as elusive as perfection. Just as the dawn separates the day from the night, God's word is always in the process of separating Godliness from wickedness, truth from lies, revealing corrupt ideals and distorted values in every stage of our spiritual development. We all lie exposed in the light of the word of God.


We find, therefore, in Christ's coming, two of His unalterable attributes - "division and brightness." Moreover, there is an interesting analogy of this in Gen. 38. We know that four women are named in the genealogy of Christ.

One of them is named Tamar. Judah, a son of Jacob, had illicit relations with Tamar, and she gave birth to twins - Pharez and Zarah. At the time of delivery, when it appeared that Zarah would be the first-born, the mid-wife tied a scarlet thread to Zarah's hand. However, according to the foreordained will of God, it was not to be Zarah [for Zarah withdrew his hand] but his brother Pharez who should be born first. Pharez means "breach; division," and Zarah means "dawn; brightness".

Now, if we reason correctly we can understand the significance of the order of birth in relation to the two advents of Jesus. If Zarah had been born before Perez [division], the order of appearance, corresponding to Christ, would have been reversed. In effect, there would have been "brightness" before "division." The entire story of Tamar is complex and replete with analogies, but why else would it have been inserted among the scriptures except as another revelation of the mystery of the Word of God?

Examine the meaning of names to gain insight. This is what I did at first, and had been pondering [for some time] what the meaning of the names signified here prophetically before digging some more.

Judah means:
praise (esp. with uplifted hands),
praised (celebrated),
praise of the LORD,
the LORD be praised,
confessor, (a confession).

Tamar means:
Palm [such as those used to wave Jesus in on His Triumphal Entry with the colt],
[esp.] Palm Tree [the righteous are often compared to Palm Trees flourishing]

Pharez means:
a Breach
division or rupture
a breaking forth or bursting forth

[Micah 2:13]

Christ - Broke forth/through the womb/enemies/first-second Comings


Zarah means:
Sunrise
east; brightness
rising of the Sun [of Light]
a rising
a dawning; shining
to rise; come forth; break out; arise; rise up; shine
to come out; appear
to irradiate; shoot forth beams [as the sun]



Firstly, I want to acquaint you guys with a title of Christ that is not commonly realized!

Christ is called the Breaker [i.e the '[B]breach-maker'], and it's the same exact word that is used for the naming of Pharez [which, as seen above, means 'breach/division/breaking through/bursting forth!]

[Both words are spelled exactly the same in Hebrew - [B]Peh, Resh, Tsaddi: which are Hebrew letters]

So anyhow, if we turn to Micah 2:13, we see this often missed title for God. . .

Micah 2:12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob , all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.
Micah 2:13 The breaker is come upbefore them: they have broken up, and have passed through the gate, and are gone out by it: and their king shall pass before them, and the LORD on the head of them.


This might sound a little vague at first, but I'd like to include a few other translations which might make the King James more clear.


(Amplified Bible) The Breaker [the Messiah] will go up before them. They will break through, pass in through the gate and go out through it, and their King will pass on before them, the Lord at their head.

(Bible in Basic English) The opener of the way will go up before them: forcing their way out they will go on to the doorway and out through it: their king will go on before them, and the Lord at their head.

(Contemporary English Version) I [God] will break down the gate and lead them out-- then I [God] will be their king.

(Complete Jewish Bible) The one breaking through went up before them; they broke through, passed the gate and went out. Their king passed on before them; ADONAI was leading them.

(Good News Bible) God will open the way for them and lead them out of exile. They will break out of the city gates and go free. Their king, the LORD himself, will lead them out.

(God's Word) The LORD will open the way and lead them. They will break out, go through the gate, and leave. Their king will travel in front of them. The LORD will lead the people.

(Holman Christian Standard Bible) One who breaks open the way will advance before them; they will break out, pass through the gate, and leave by it. Their King will pass through before them, the LORD as their leader.

(Hebrew Names Version) He who breaks open the way goes up before them. They break through the gate, and go out. And their king passes on before them, with the LORD at their head.

(Literal Translation of the Holy Bible) He breaking up has come before them; they have broken up and have passed through the gate and have gone out of it. And their king shall pass before them, and Jehovah at their head.

(The Message) Then I, GOD, will burst all confinements and lead them out into the open. They'll follow their King. I will be out in front leading them."

(NET) The one who can break through barriers will lead them out they will break out, pass through the gate, and leave. Their king will advance before them, The Lord himself will lead them.

(NIRV) I will open the way for you to return.
I will march in front of you.
You will break through the city gates and go free.
I am your King. I will pass through the gates
in front of you.
I will lead the way.

(New Living Translation) Your leader will break out and lead you out of exile. He will bring you through the gates of your cities of captivity, back to your own land. Your king will lead you; the LORD himself will guide you.

(Revised Standard Version) He who opens the breach will go up before them; they will break through and pass the gate, going out by it. Their king will pass on before them, the LORD at their head.






The context of this verse is in relation to God returning the children of Israel from exile, and leading them out of it [captivity and exile], back into their homeland.

Amplified Bible Footnotes:

[1] Micah 2:13 Over and over again the prophets unveiled the full dimensions of God’s judgment and salvation. [I]God must punish His rebellious people but will afterward redeem them. Israel will be carried into captivity, yet a remnant will return. The Messiah, the One who breaks open the way, will lead them back home, and will restore the kingdom of David.

This was speaking to, in-part, softly fulfilled in their return from Babylon's captivity before Christ.

But more fully will this truly be fulfilled at Christ's Second Coming, when the 'greater Exile' from the World System of Anti-Christ and the Whore [Mystery Babylon & Spiritual Egypt] occur.

Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown agree when commenting on this verse in question:

all of thee — The restoration from Babylon was partial. Therefore that here meant must be still future, when “all Israel shall be saved” (Rom_11:26). The restoration from “Babylon” (specified (Mic_4:10) is the type of the future one.

remnant — the elect remnant, which shall survive the previous calamities of Judah, and from which the nation is to spring into new life (Isa_6:13; Isa_10:20-22).

As do Keil & Delitzsch:

in the highest sense Christ, who opens the prison-doors, and redeems the captives of Zion (vid., Isa_42:7). Led by him, they break through the walls, and march through the gate, and go out through it out of the prison. “The three verbs, they break through, they march through, they go out, describe in a pictorial manner progress which cannot be stopped by any human power” (Hengstenberg).

Their King Jehovah goes before them at their head (the last two clauses of the verse are synonymous). Just as Jehovah went before Israel as the angel of the Lord in the pillar of cloud and fire at the exodus from Egypt (Exo_13:21), so at the future redemption of the people of God will Jehovah go before them as King, and lead the procession (see Isa_52:12).

The fulfilment of this prophecy commenced with the gathering together of Israel to its God and King by the preaching of the gospel, and will be completed at some future time when the Lord shall redeem Israel, which is now pining in dispersion, out of the fetters of its unbelief and life of sin. We must not exclude all allusion to the deliverance of the Jewish nation out of the earthly Babylon by Cyrus; at the same time, it is only in its typical significance that this comes into consideration at all, - namely, as a preliminary stage and pledge of the redemption to be effected by Christ out of the spiritual Babylon of this world.

[Joel]

If you will notice, on a sidenote, if this is to be fulfilled at Christ's Second Coming... it would seem to be tied into this other Second Coming prophecy....


Isaiah 63:1 WHO IS this Who comes from Edom, with crimson-stained garments from Bozrah ? This One Who is glorious in His apparel, striding triumphantly in the greatness of His might? It is I, [the One] Who speaks in righteousness [proclaiming vindication], mighty to save!

Isaiah 63:2-4 Why is Your apparel splashed with red, and Your garments like the one who treads in the winepress? I have trodden the winepress alone, and of the peoples there was no one with Me. I trod them in My anger and trampled them in My wrath; and their lifeblood is sprinkled upon My garments, and I stained all My raiment. For the day of vengeance was in My heart, and My year of redemption [the year of My redeemed] has come.


Background:
'Bozrah' was the ancient capital of the territory termed 'Edom'.
'Petra', oft-referred to in prophecy circles, is also in 'Edom', and appears to have been a principal stronghold in days past.


The territory [Kingdom] of Edom [Which is just east of Israel, and south of the 'Dead Sea'] occupied land in what today is known as the country of Jordan, particularly the southern portion of today's modern nation of Jordan.


Maps for ease...

http://www.crimsonstained.com/jp/BGMapJoshuaSaul.gif

http://www.crimsonstained.com/jp/BGMapUnitedKingdom.gif

And now we can identify.

We actually must remember the armies of the world will all be gathered in a place called Megiddo (Armageddon) [Revelation 16], yet also He will return to the Mt. of Olives upon His feet [Zechariah 14:4], but not before riding a white horse [Revelation 19] that all the world will see.

Yet to add with all this, there's the scenario now unfolded that He will 'break through' from Bozrah in Edom [which is deeply south], leading the exiles of Israel back home...

:hrm



[this is apprently where the Jews will flee to [the Bozrah/Edom region], when Jesus says for them to run to the mountains when they see the 'Abomination of Desolation' standing in the Temple in Matthew 24.]


So we have this picture of Christ first ‘breaking forth’ [‘Pharez’ – ‘the Breaker’] leading the exiles home from the southern coast of Jordan/Israel, heading northward obliterating the Anti-Christ’s armies… [and as such, He will have ‘[I]crimson-stained garments’ and ‘apparel stained in red’ from the sheer blood that will be spilt.]

Heading northward, He arrives upon the Mt. of Olives, where it states He will set His feet and the mountain will break/divide in two [Zechariah 14:2-4] as he proceeds towards the Temple Mount through the Eastern Gate.

in Megiddo, which is in the far north of Israel, and Christ’s return begins in southern Israel - ascending northwards… Revelation 14:20 states: And [the grapes in] the winepress were trodden outside the city [Jerusalem], and blood poured from the winepress, [reaching] as high as horses' bridles, for a distance of 1,600 stadia (about 180-200 miles)

It’s a fact the extent of modern-day Israel from ‘bottom’ [south] to ‘top’ [north] is the same length, being near 180-200 miles length-wise.]


Now aside from this phase of Christ’s Second Coming [the ‘Breaker’ going ahead of Israel’s enemies southward-to-northward], Christ’s Second Coming and ‘arrival’ is marked by the language of a sunrise upon the land. [Christ being the sun]

I’d encourage everyone to read this thread ‘the Bright Morningstar’ - http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=229658

As it explains how the language of Jesus being the Morningstar [which arrives shortly before the Sunrise] is a picture of Him taking His church out of here shortly before He arrives [sun rising].

(Morning Star [rises in your hearts] - end times marker [2 Peter 1:19])

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, [I]as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn [the sun rises], and the day star [morning star] arise in your hearts

But the fact remaining, the ‘Arriving’ of the sunrise is compared to that of Christ’s Return [and how it’s always ‘darkest’ before the sun rises is to be compared to that of the grim Tribulation hour before He returns].

Some example references:

Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Isaiah 9:3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
Isaiah 9:4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.
Isaiah 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.


Isaiah 10


Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.
Isaiah 60:3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

And even Christ’s first coming, has the language of ‘light dawning’, akin to His second coming as well [and it is my humble opinion that His 1st and 2nd Comings are inseperably tied/intrinsically interwoven together]:

Isaiah 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Isaiah 42:7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.


And more than this here are examples of ‘Rising early in the morning/the dawning [typology of when God's judgment/arrival occurs]’ [again, comparable to Christ rising as the Sun and judgment being poured out as He Returns]:

Genesis 19:15-27 [Sodom and Gomorrah]

Genesis 22:3 [Abraham saddled up early in the morning to offer up Isaac]

Exodus 8:20, 9:13 [God’s judgment of the Plagues on Egypt]

24:4 [Moses sprinkles blood on the people, God’s presence visibly seen]

34:4 [God’s presence visibly seen]

Joshua 3:1 [Israel crosses over the Jordan]

Joshua 6:15 [Jericho falls down on the 7th day]

1st Samuel 17:20 [David and Goliath]

Psalm 101:8 ‘I will early [‘at the breaking of day’] destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.’

Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1 [Christ’s resurrection made known]



If you recall,

Zarah means:
Sunrise
east; brightness
rising of the Sun [of Light]
a rising
a dawning; shining
to rise; come forth; break out; arise; rise up; shine
to come out; appear
to irradiate; shoot forth beams [as the sun]


So here we see Christ’s second coming is like that of the sun [Zarah] and its rays breaking forth [Pharez] over the land with salvation and light.. shortly after the darkest hour of the night [The tribulation hour], and shortly after the Morning Star was risen [the catching away of the Church].


So, IMHO, Zarah and Pharez show us a composite picture of Christ’s Second Coming.

[B]scarlet[/COLOR]] plan/work]

And full redemption won't occur until He returns a Second time..

[joy4Him2day]

:freaked

[pilgrimian]

:freaked

Glad you reignited this thread...I need to copy the data for my files.

Godspeed, Shalom, Happy Chanukah, Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!!
Matthew

[Waiting4theKing]

Hey, its been almost a year.....any answers?
Also, I have some thoughts to post.....but, gotta leave for church, bbl.
:):
Looking forward to your thoughts :):

[joy4Him2day]

well........

after Joel posted, I felt a little like the wind got knocked out of me........
:faint, he is something else in his studies, isn't he?

here is just something to add to the mix:

Proverbs 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household; for all her household are clothed with scarlet. KJV I LOVE THAT!!!

(even the snow for her household sets my mind to pondering....)

8144:shaniy: crimson, scarlet

It is the same word in Gen. 38:28 the scarlet chord around the wrist
It is the same word in Josh 2:18 the scarlet chord in Rahab's window
It is the same word in 2 Sam. 1:24 "Ye daughters of Israel, weep over Saul, who clothed you in scarlet....."
It is the same word in Isaiah 1:18 though your sins be as scarlet.....
It is the same word in Lam. 4:5 they that were brought up in scarlet embrace dunghills......

okay, now I have to go back and read Joel's findings in this light...

I was picturing scarlet as a symbol of "covering" "protection" until the sins be as scarlet.....it didn't compute....pondering that just now.......

[Joel]

Another verse of support towards the language of Christ being as the sun in His return.

Psalm 19:4-5


King James ...

In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber


The Amplified ...

Of the heavens has God made a tent for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber; and it rejoices as a strong man to run his course.

Of course we're all familiar with Christ being referred to as the 'Bridegroom'. . .

:freaked

[joy4Him2day]

Found another verse referring to 8144:

Jer. 4:30 ....Though thou clothest thyself with crimson, though thou deckest thee with ornaments of gold.........

Rev. 17:3....I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast....
Rev. 12:3 ...refers to a red dragon......

[Hootmon]

Im fairly certain that 'Pharisee' is a Hellenized version of a root word similar to 'Pharez'...

H6557
פּרץ
perets
BDB Definition:
Perez or Pharez = “breach”
1) twin son with Zarah of Judah by Tamar and ancestor of two families of Judah, the Hezronites and Hamulites; from the Hezronites came the royal line of David and Christ
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: the same as H6556H6556
פּרץ
perets
BDB Definition:
1) breach, gap, bursting forth
1a) bursting forth, outburst
1b) breach
1c) broken wall
1d) outburst (figuratively of God’s wrath)
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H6555H6555
פּרץ
pârats
BDB Definition:
1) to break through or down or over, burst, breach
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to break or burst out (from womb or enclosure)
1a2) to break through or down, make a breach in
1a3) to break into
1a4) to break open
1a5) to break up, break in pieces
1a6) to break out (violently) upon
1a7) to break over (limits), increase
1a8) to use violence
1a9) to burst open
1a10) to spread, distribute
1b) (Niphal) to be broken through
1c) (Pual) to be broken down
1d) (Hithpael) to break away
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root
G5330
Φαρισαῖος
Pharisaios
Thayer Definition:
1) A sect that seems to have started after the Jewish exile. In addition to OT books the Pharisees recognised in oral tradition a standard of belief and life. They sought for distinction and praise by outward observance of external rites and by outward forms of piety, and such as ceremonial washings, fastings, prayers, and alms giving; and, comparatively negligent of genuine piety, they prided themselves on their fancied good works. They held strenuously to a belief in the existence of good and evil angels, and to the expectation of a Messiah; and they cherished the hope that the dead, after a preliminary experience either of reward or of penalty in Hades, would be recalled to life by him, and be requited each according to his individual deeds. In opposition to the usurped dominion of the Herods and the rule of the Romans, they stoutly upheld the theocracy and their country’s cause, and possessed great influence with the common people. According to Josephus they numbered more than 6000. They were bitter enemies of Jesus and his cause; and were in turn severely rebuked by him for their avarice, ambition, hollow reliance on outward works, and affection of piety in order to gain popularity.
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Hebrew origin compare H6567
H6567
פּרשׁ
pârâsh
BDB Definition:
1) to make distinct, declare, distinguish, separate
1a) (Qal) to declare, clarify
1b) (Pual) to be distinctly declared
2) (Hiphil) to pierce, sting
3) (Niphal) scatter
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: a primitive root

[antsinmypants]

You are correct Hootmon.

However, I do take issue with Thayer in that he said:


1) A sect that seems to have started after the Jewish exile. In addition to OT books the Pharisees recognised in oral tradition a standard of belief and life. They sought for distinction and praise by outward observance of external rites and by outward forms of piety, and such as ceremonial washings, fastings, prayers, and alms giving; and, comparatively negligent of genuine piety, they prided themselves on their fancied good works. They held strenuously to a belief in the existence of good and evil angels, and to the expectation of a Messiah; and they cherished the hope that the dead, after a preliminary experience either of reward or of penalty in Hades, would be recalled to life by him, and be requited each according to his individual deeds. In opposition to the usurped dominion of the Herods and the rule of the Romans, they stoutly upheld the theocracy and their country’s cause, and possessed great influence with the common people. According to Josephus they numbered more than 6000. They were bitter enemies of Jesus and his cause; and were in turn severely rebuked by him for their avarice, ambition, hollow reliance on outward works, and affection of piety in order to gain popularity.

There are more than 100 sects of Pharisees. Some went to the ridiculous on their "outward signs of faith" - however the "root" of phariseeism actually was a "match" to what Y'shua taught.

The numbers of Pharisees that followed Him were actually very great... Paul (Sha'ul) numbering among them later in His life (after the road to Damascus experience) .

The teachings of Y'shua actually line up with the older teachings of Phariseeism; and are totally against that of Saduceeism. He even fufilled writings of Pharisaic rabbis that said Messiah would do certain things not explicitly written of in scripture.

While Y'shua did severely rebuke and reprimand, if people pay attention, the things he is rebuking are man-made laws that are directly opposed to scripture and the heart of scripture- but He left many things untouched that are considered by many as "man-made laws/understanding" that are still followed today and show the heart of scripture itself.

If we trace back to what was originally observed, verses certain "evolved" forms of Phariseeism (Such as some Orthodox Jewish groups)... we find that those who were first (and up to the time of Paul) Labeled as Pharisees were more often than not the people who stuck to their guns on literal scriptural interpretation; vs the people who went into Gnostic thoughts (The Sadducees) who denied certain aspects of G-d, angels/demons and the afterlife.

Just like many forms of religion, after the destruction of the temple, the rabbis went into "survival mode" and both Phariseeism and Sadduceeism Evolved.

new rules, new practices.. and rabbis becoming the sole source of information and authority- vs the old practice of let the scriptures speak for themselves and G-d be the final authority. :sad

Sadduceeism died out for a time, and found new life in the Haredi Jews... :sad


anyway.. just some thoughts

[Hootmon]

Yeah.

That's probably why they found each other so exasperating.

Jesus: Dudes! You are soooo close to having it right. Just give up these embellishments...

Pharisees: Brothers... He has a point. How do we keep him from ruining our sweet Scam...

[antsinmypants]

:lol
Why do I get this vision of Napoleon Dynamite in the year 33CE? :pound
"You take it off any sweet jumps yet?" :nerd


You are right. There were some guys with clout that really had it "together" in their eyes, but were soooooo off base... and many who had it, and just had to slough off a few things. I find it interesting and to the point that Paul still identified himself as a pharisee, and his teachings/writings even reflect that.


It's amazing to read of some of the things going on after Y'shua with the many members of the Sanhedrin talking about the new group of believers, and their stance on it... and the stance on Y'shua at the time just before the destruction of the holy temple.

You can just see the light of G-d in some of the writings and things people were talking about and see how they had it "together", whereas in the writings of others, you know how lost they really were :(: