How would you reply to this?

[houseparent]

In my worldview, all knowledge, belief, etc. is provisional. It's also relative and changes when the perspective it's viewed from changes, and I think the language used to express knowledge is part of this relativeness. I consider as "facts" only those concepts that are sufficiently corroborated to such an extent that it would be unreasonable not to give provisional acceptance. I am willing to take actions based on them, but they still remain provisional and subject to challenge or revision.

Similarly, if a claim has been tested and failed enough (as with creationism), then I provisionally conclude it lacks validity. My lack of belief in it is again open to new information, testing, etc.

A corollary to all this is that extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence in support, before being provisionally acceptable.

You, on the other hand, based on what I've seen here, are blinded and handicapped by certainty. When evidence is presented to you contradicting your beliefs, you can't see it, or you distort it to fit your beliefs, or you ignore it, or consider it irrelevant, or go into denial, or rationalize, etc. But you never admit the possibility to yourself of being wrong and are literally incapable of learning anything new. You are locked into "knew" beliefs....

[Lonewolf7]

:thumb :clap

[houseparent]

?

You like that?

This was an agnostic telling me why I am foolish for believing in the bible.

[thornrose]

My faith overtakes my intellect?

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by houseparent
?

You like that?

This was an agnostic telling me why I am foolish for believing in the bible.


oooops....I thought it was the other way around:fear :doh :B:

sorry....speeeeeeed reading again.

[thornrose]

Must have been a sociologist. By all the words to describe one thing.

Houseparent, when we are Born Again, we have so much more, and can see what others, who think they know so much, lack. I had so many Bibles, and tried to understand. Until I was Born Again, it was all gibberish.

[houseparent]

My faith overtakes my intellect?

Yep, that's what this guy says.

[houseparent]

Houseparent, when we are Born Again, we have so much more, and can see what others, who think they know so much, lack. I had so many Bibles, and tried to understand. Until I was Born Again, it was all gibberish.

I tell him that! Almost that exact same thing! But he say's I am just making up excuses.:frusty

[TSH1]

Since this guy seems to need proof, have you considered referring him to Hugh Ross' site.

http://www.reasons.org/index.shtml

This may help him.


Tami

[TSH1]

Here is a testable creation model from Hugh's site for him to consider;

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/testablecreationsummary.shtml?main


Tami

[houseparent]

I'll try that! Thanks.

[Angyl]

Originally posted by houseparent

Similarly, if a claim has been tested and failed enough (as with creationism), then I provisionally conclude it lacks validity. My lack of belief in it is again open to new information, testing, etc.


Tell him that Creationism has never been disproven as he asserts. It's just never been proven sufficiently to closed-minded egomainiacs such as himself.

[MikeJ]

houseparent,

That guy is using psychobabble. Since he doesn't believe in creationism he obviously believes in evolution. Ask him to give you one scientific fact for it. He'll stammer like a idiot because he can't.

He reminds me of this verse; I Cor 2:14, But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Until a person recogizes the fact that if you have creation there must be a creator there's nothing you can do for them except pray that God opens their eyes. Otherwise you'll just end up in a circular argument everytime you try to talk to this guy about spiritual things.

I have an agnostic friend and it took 6-7 years of prayer and witnessing to him to bring him from atheism to agnostism. That is a step in the right direction but he still has a long way to go to having a saving faith.

Mike

[Xlcor]

www.evolutionoftruth.com

[Mr. Fernandez]

We can often explain that the Bible has proven valid in many fields of knowledge: ie. prophecy on Christ's events which have already occurred, prophecy on events that are beggining to unfold, Job 36:27 details how rain is distilled, Isaiah 40:22 hints at a round Earth, and many other provable details of the Bible's accuracy and wisdom.

Then if the Bible, a proven and accurate resource, refers to the Earth as being created in six days, and there are many scientific arguments to support that, then I am comfortable to place certainty on that belief. One does not need to be an expert at debating creationism to convey this. I also wonder what they would describe as their motivation for disputing it. We are motivated by the Word which tells us to evangelize, etc. But they, partakers of their relative world, should have no motive other than pride and ego, to crush the little one. Mark 9:42 addresses these folks.
May the Lord bless you in your endeavors,

[cameron222]

The problem is that man is trying to explain the Earth with human thinking. Man sees his own limitations in something like this and thus has to "assign" ages that are beyond reasoning to try and get closer to an explanation.

What we see is maturity....not age. God creates with maturity. Adam was fully grown, fully developed and fully functional at the very moment he was created. Man would have looked on Adam and said he was thirty years old or so, when in fact he was only one second old.

What is impossible to man is possible with God.

[blh]

Cameron222, that was such an excellent reply! I have read the Creation account in the first few chapters of Genesis hundreds of times, but had never really considered the fact that Adam was, indeed created as an adult. I KNEW that he was, I just had not stopped to ponder the implications of that fact. Thanks.

[Joshua]

I kind of like the idea that "my faith overtakes my intellect"

Reminds me that the wise will become fools and fools will be wise.

Bad quote but, you know what I mean......

I would throw in a couple of big words here to clarify things but

I don't know any.........

[nanato3]

:confused just say "my momma didn't raise no fools" for a fool says in his heart that there is no God.momma (nanato3)

[vof]

Originally posted by nanato3
:confused just say "my momma didn't raise no fools" for a fool says in his heart that there is no God.momma (nanato3)

ditto!!! and a wonderful saying!!!

[joy4Him2day]

God never argues with me, He just seems to wait until I am ready and listening.......

John 16:12, I have many things to say to you, however you cannot bear them now.....

I always pray, Lord make me ready to be shown. Any maybe in our witnessing sometimes we need to preface it with, make them ready to be shown. Simplified? Possibly, but sometimes debate is just frustrating. I think you should be ready to give an answer of the hope that is in you, because YOU need to know with assurance, but to convince others sometimes is not possible.
The god of this world has blinded their eyes. We appear to them an army carrying pots and pitchers against their chariots, but "strength is not in the horse", Psalm 147:10-11, He delighteth not in the strength of the horse; he taketh not pleasure in the legs of a man. The Lord taketh pleasure in those who fear him , in those who hope in his mercy.
How foolish we look! How foolish I think I look sometimes! I beg for chariots and horses, but it is not His way. We will always look foolish to the unbeliever, that is the secret of abiding in the shadow of the Almighty.
I was accused once of "hiding behind Jesus", which I thought quite interesting.....
I would either pray for his eyes to be opened, or his heart prepared for truth, or you may be just dueling.
God Bless.
:wave

[FollowerofJesus]

The agnostic or atheist believe in the five senses. Faith goes way beyond that. I hope this is relevant to your post.

[sunshine4jesus]

To quote my son:

When you take all the facts and theories and lay them side by side, the Bible is the only one that makes sense.

[sandy111]

Lonewolf, that is one neat picure,
I would like to get one to hang up around here,
with the words at the bottom, I sure could use it!
is there a place I can get it?

[goodboy]

I consider as "facts" only those concepts that are sufficiently corroborated to such an extent that it would be unreasonable not to give provisional acceptance.

Based on the statement above, he should beleive in Jesus Christ.

It is "unreasonable" not to beleive that Jesus Christ was someone extreemly important, as our calendar is based on his birth.

So who did this extreemly important person say he was? God!

So he was either crazy and we based our calendar on someone who was a nut (but for some reason considered him to be an extreemly important nut), or he was and is indeed God!