Why go to church?

[savedandhappy1]

Why Go To Church?






A Church goer wrote a letter to the editor of a newspaper and complained that it made no sense to go to church every Sunday. "I've gone for 30 years now," he wrote, "and in that time I have heard something like 3,000 sermons. But for the life of me, I can't remember a single one of them.. So, I think I'm wasting my time and the pastors are wasting theirs by giving sermons at all."

This started a real controversy in the "Letters to the Editor" column, much to the delight of the editor. It went on for weeks until someone wrote this clincher:

"I've been married for 30 years now. In that time my wife has cooked some 32,000 meals. But, for the life of me, I cannot recall the entire menu for a single one of those meals. But I do know this... They all nourished me and gave me the strength I needed to do my work. If my wife had not given me these meals, I would be physically dead today. Likewise, if I had not gone to church for nourishment, I would be spiritually dead today!" When you are DOWN to nothing.... God is UP to something! Faith sees the invisible, believes the incredible and receives the impossible! Thank God for our physical AND our spiritual nourishment!

I think everyone should read this!! "When Satan is knocking at your door, simply say,"Jesus, could you get that for me?!!"

Just thought this was good.

Love in Christ
Kathy

[cameron222]

Excellent letter Kathy......:):

[thornrose]

Great letter! :thumb

[FollowerofJesus]

so we need something to temporarily fill us up like a meal?

[thornrose]

That meal may seem temporary, but without it and subsequent others, where would you be? Malnourished and etc. etc. We should be feeding at the table of God everyday, but this article was about church and the response letter that silenced all others, made an excellent point.

[Xlcor]

"Give us this day our daily bread....." :popcorn

[cameron222]

Excuses for missing church:

I can't stand all the perfume smells. It gives me a headache.
(Do you tolerate it at work five days a week?)

The church is full of hypocrites.
(What about the world.....any hypocrites there?)

The preacher is always asking for money.
(What about the IRS?)

The preacher doesn't preach on things I like.
(Does he follow your lesson plan for sermon's or God's)

I don't get anything out of it?
(Have you prayed for discernment?)
(Who said church was for "you" anyway. Its for God!!)

The church is the body of Christ, not some building.
(True, but don't you want to be with the rest of your body?)
(Missing body parts make one look strange!!)

I know that the song director has committed adultery.
(And you haven't.....especially in your thoughts?)

I have a cold and don't feel like going to church.
(Ever wondered how Jesus felt on the way to the cross, but he still went?)

Church attendance does not save anyone.
(True. But it sends a powerfil visual witness to your neighbors.)

The church doesn't preach the rapture.
(Maybe they're too busy preaching Jesus saves, which is much more important. Milk before meat for the newbies.)

I feel like sleeping in today.......
(Thank you! You finally gave the correct answer for skipping church.)

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
I think everyone should read this!! "When Satan is knocking at your door, simply say,"Jesus, could you get that for me?!!" :thumb


Originally posted by Xlcor
"Give us this day our daily bread....." :popcorn :nod

[Harpadzo]

"Why go to church"


Functions of the church:
Worship
Fellowship
Nurture
Evangelism

"Let us not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another and all the more as you see the day approaching" Heb 10:25

[John Tyson]

Grace and peace to you all.

I love going to church to be with other Christians. Thanks of the posts folks. Thank God for churches!

God bless,
John

[savedandhappy1]

Thank You all for your comments.

This is kind of like what my sunday school teachers says about her lessons. They are usually something she needs to learn or remember.

Two weeks ago I was up all day and night, on call at the hospital. I was also trying to come down with a cold, so after getting in at 7 am Sunday morning I felt to bad to go to church. The next Sunday the same thing happened, and I didn't go to church. I felt bad all week, and again Saturday was up most of the night, but did get 2 hrs. sleep. After putting this letter on it was a great reminder of what church can do for you. I forced myself up after 2 hours of sleep today, and went to Sunday School and Morning Worship.

OH WHAT A BLESSING AND STRENGTH GIVING DAY!!!!!!!!!!


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[stacee333]

Gotta have church.......cause I want to be near the presence and to Praise him with my brothers and sisters.

I am not whole if I dont get my daily sunday bread, and I am instructed by the man of God who gives the inspired word of God to get me through the week.

I am also a light to those just visiting and seeking God. Many people who if I did not go, would not see mine and others smiling faces and warm hugs, hand shakes and prayers. We are the body, we are the hands and feet of Jesus.


PEOPLE NEED THE LORD so lets GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mercy4Me]

Originally posted by cameron222
Excuses for missing church:

I can't stand all the perfume smells. It gives me a headache.
(Do you tolerate it at work five days a week?)



Shame on you Cameron.

We have a sister in our midst that simply cannot tolerate any smells like this, so if this is the reason she doesnt go to church then it a very valid reason indeed.

You should be careful about judging everyone by what you label as excuses, when it is a very real medical problem.



The church is full of hypocrites.
(What about the world.....any hypocrites there?)


Yes, and there are plenty on this board as well.




The preacher is always asking for money.
(What about the IRS?)

The preacher doesn't preach on things I like.
(Does he follow your lesson plan for sermon's or God's)

I don't get anything out of it?
(Have you prayed for discernment?)
(Who said church was for "you" anyway. Its for God!!)

The church is the body of Christ, not some building.
(True, but don't you want to be with the rest of your body?)
(Missing body parts make one look strange!!)

I know that the song director has committed adultery.
(And you haven't.....especially in your thoughts?)


Again, you presume to know things about folks that you do not know.




I have a cold and don't feel like going to church.
(Ever wondered how Jesus felt on the way to the cross, but he still went?)

Church attendance does not save anyone.
(True. But it sends a powerfil visual witness to your neighbors.)

The church doesn't preach the rapture.
(Maybe they're too busy preaching Jesus saves, which is much more important. Milk before meat for the newbies.)


Ah I see you had to get a dig in at those of us who long for the Rapture, yet again. :yawn




I feel like sleeping in today.......
(Thank you! You finally gave the correct answer for skipping church.)


Wow, so that is the ONLY correct reason huh.

What about the church not preaching sound doctrine? Or being more cult-like than church like?

But I don't guess any of those reasons matter to you do they?

You want to know the real reason a lot of folks don't go to church? Because there are a lot of hippocritcal, judgmental, holier than thou Christians in them.

When we really get down to it, it's no body's business why people do or do not go to church.

[cameron222]

Most people avoid church because they simply do not want to go. They have their own pet doctrines and get miffed at anyone who dares upset their theology.

I love being with my church family and sometimes we do not agree on things.....just like in any family.

But we still love one another and love and serve the one who gave His life for us.

Church is not for us anyway. Its to worship the one who saved us from our sins.

And I stand by my list because many of the excuses we use for not attending church, don't matter when it comes to going to work or doing the things we really want to do.

We set our own priorities and find a way to do what we like most.....despite the limitations.

But I still love ya......:):

[inspector]

Wow!:wacko talk about perception.

cameron222, I liked your list of excuses, it did not offend me. I have used one or two there myself.

[sunshine4jesus]

Sometimes I get so much from attending church I feel guilty that I don't give enough back!! And we are not talking $$ here!!

It is God's church. It always makes me happy to imagine God smiling at the people who come to His house to get to know Him better. To worship(Means to "throw" affection towards God), to praise, to learn. To fellowship so we can minister to one another.

In my opinion, there are no dead churches, just churches with members who do not know how to BE a growing church. (and I am not talking about numbers). They are not dead, they are just stagnant.

When we moved here, I seriously asked God to place us in a local church. He answered with so much more than we expected.
And much quicker, too.

Remember the song"I was glad when they said unto me, let us go into the house of the Lord"?
That pretty aptly sums up how I feel when it is church time.

[BHiles]

Someone doth protest too much, methinks:nod

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[savedandhappy1]

My husband used to use the excuse about hypocrisy in church for many years also. I kept reminding him that that is the best place for them, what better place then at church where they can learn and be convicted for their hypocrisy.

Cameron all those reasons are good, and I have heard them all and used several myself.

For the person mentioned with allergeries. I too have them, alot of perfumes give me bad migranes. Thank goodness the minute I get alittle smell I can walk away and get to another area where the smell isn't. We can most of the time find away to go without endangering our health, and still receive the blessings that come from worshiping and praising our Lord with other members of the body of Christ.

My family was away from the Lord for some years, and when I started going again my husband used the excuse above. Now that my family is back in church my husband has commented on how the devil was doing a great job of keeping him from the blessings received by going, and is so happy I started going again and pushing him to go also.

Going or not going is between each of us and the Lord, but I do believe there is a church out there for all of us to receive the blessing that come with gathering together with other members of the body. I believe the strength that comes along with the refreshing is something that none of us should miss.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by cameron222
I have a cold and don't feel like going to church.
(Ever wondered how Jesus felt on the way to the cross, but he still went?)

Cameron, your list is good, but I wish to take exception to one thing on it (see above quote).

I get really annoyed w/people who come to church sick, go to work sick, or generally get around otherwise healthy people when they are sick. I think it shows a complete lack of consideration for others when someone shows up with something contagious. Especially right now during flu season. It can be especially dangerous for elderly, small infants and those w/chronic diseases (such as diabetes, which I have).

Since our church meets in homes and not in "temples made of stone" ... we are especially sensitive to this. We have a rule.. if you're sick, stay home! I have sent people home before when they showed up at our house sicker than a dog. I just think that's completely insensitive. When our older boys were babies we got real annoyed with sick children in the nursery. Next thing we know, the kids are sick and then they come down with ear infections and end up at the doctor's office and having to buy perscriptions. I didn't see the individual who came to church sick and spreaded the illness offering to help pay our medical bills.

IF YOU ARE SICK... SKIP CHURCH THAT WEEK. YOU WONT GO TO HELL!

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by cameron222
Excuses for missing church:

I can't stand all the perfume smells. It gives me a headache.
(Do you tolerate it at work five days a week?)

This is a very legitimate excuse, as I know in my family sinus troubles do abound, and my father, mother and sister cannot put up with perfumes in the fabric softener, in the soap, in the air freshners, in the laundry or hand or dish soap... and certainly cannot put up with the perfume even at work..

There are ways to get around that.. one of them being asking people not to wear perfume to the meetings, or to sit in a whole other room.. or even at that, just have the sermon tapes...
and have individual bible studies with other believers.

I, myself have sinus trouble, and some people's musk or perfume or cologne can send me over the edge.

Right now i'm on the verge of a sinus infection, and ANYTHING that has a perfume or wood smell has sent me into migrane headaches that make me lay down still in dark room with a hot washrag...

I spent the better part of the sermon on Shabbat in the kid's room praying with my head on the floor for that very same reason.

Sometimes I am so stopped up that I don't smell the perfumes, and in the middle of service I start getting ill with a headache.
I'm part of the praise team, if I can- I carry on.. if I can't, I have to go!

Lately, just the wood burning in other people's fireplaces have kept me ill.. I've done my best to attend, but if I am too sick, I can't make myself drive that far (20 miles) and back to get my "food".

It's best not to critique illnesses or health problems we haven't experienced ourselves.

I've had pastors tell my family that if you're well enough to get out of the bed, you should be in church.

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't cut it-- because sometimes you aren't well enough... and sometimes you have contagious problems, or your immune system is down so much that anyone else's germs might actually kill you..


On the other hand..

"Let us not give up meeting together as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another and all the more as you see the day approaching" Heb 10:25

That doesn't mean just "church"-- it means assembling, be it for bible study or sermons.

:wave

p.s. KK :thumb

[BarbT]

Most people avoid church because .... Ah, isn't it nice to have a real SOOTHSAYER here at RR. He knows the hearts, minds, and personal histories of "most people". ;):

Big *thank you* to my friend and sister-in-Christ DANA for articulating it so well. :D: :wave I have met the lady in person. I'd be willing to bet the rent she is just as close to our Lord {and just as Godly} as the church goers who constantly put down Christians who do not follow the 2- hours-on-Sunday-morning formula.

The Holy Spirit is at work in each of our lives and sometimes He leads us to do different things. If you have a fantastic church home that's great. But please respect the Lord's decision when He directs some of us away from institutional worship. Don't worry about it so much. There really are other ways to worship, find fellowship and serve.

:):

[RJs here]

cameron ~ I am REALLY hurt by your mean, spiteful {and VERY ignorant attitude (yes ~ folks, the perfume comment was aimed at *me* ~ as he read about my problem in one of these previous threads)


Thank you Dana and ants ~ for UNDERSTANDING!!!!! :thumb


cameron ~ busy bouncing back & forth with the *judgmental attitude* again, eh?! Whew ~ thankfully we do not have to pass YOUR TEST ~ to enter into heaven!!

HOW DARE YOU to come at me over something like this!!! You easily chose to *overlook and forgive* my problem in the last thread ~ and now you add it to your list of *excuses of why people do not go to church* ~ funny how it made #1 on your list!! :rolleyes


it's none of your *bleep* business ~ but I'll tell you anyway -- I do not have to go to work at a place of business outside my home (since you dared to raise the question as to how do some tolerate smells at work 5 days a week ~ but they cannot handle it at church) I am VERY blessed in that I do not have to. If I did have to work ~ even then, sorry Charlie -- but I'd just have to find some way around it -- but I don't owe YOU an explanation.


I'm going to have to be busy tonight doing some heavy-duty FORGIVING ~ that's for sure!!


Meanwhile~ any time ~ ANY TIME, any WHERE -- I more than WELCOME you to walk a couple miles in my shoes!!!!


Then, when you return from walking down the road, out of breath, with an apology and you're gasping and choking (asthma) and have a migraine the size of Dallas ~ I will gladly turn the tables & lecture you on how it's just *ALL in your head*!!!!


:mad :mad :mad


{oh ~ but I love you anyway!!}

[cameron222]

I think one approach would be to let your fellow church members know about the allergy problems. Perhaps then they would avoid the perfume and other strong odors.

The church could have a perfume free zone kinda like a no smoking section is a restaurant.

And if someone has a cold or the flu, of course they should not spread it.

But many of the reasons I have seen on here for avoiding church attendance had more to do with one not wanting to be with their fellow brothers and sisters in christ for petty reasons rather than legitimate concerns. And someone bailing out of any church all together and mininizing it as no big deal goes against the grain.

I guess the reason we have dozens of different denominations is because we all cannot see eye to eye.

[Leigh]

Originally posted by cameron222
The church is full of hypocrites.

About this one, our minister used to say,

"Well I'd rather go to church with them than to Hell with them."

:nod

[cameron222]

I will be out for the next few days....so to clarify to all of my friends on here, I believe there are legitimate reasons why one cannot attend a local church.

But there are many who avoid church all together because they want too, and that is where I see the problem.

Of course, everyone is free to make their own choices, but for me there is great joy in joining my fellow brothers and sisters in christ in worship at out church. I miss them when I am gone and we have great fellowship and love one for another.

If you cannot attend church for legitimate reasons, then you have to do what you can do.

But if skipping church is because you would rather do other stuff that attend some boring or washed out service, then I would look within and do some serious praying about being with those that God loves.

They are your family!!

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by cameron222
I think one approach would be to let your fellow church members know about the allergy problems. Perhaps then they would avoid the perfume and other strong odors.

The church could have a perfume free zone kinda like a no smoking section is a restaurant..

It's not always that easy Cameron.

People don't want to give up their perfume so the minority can breathe.

Trust me. Been there and done that. Some of us have such a severe allergy that we can't be in a room with ONE person with perfume on. I've certainly been there before! :):

though, some congregations do care enough for the small minority to request that the WHOLE congregation do without.

I have been to such a congregation, though we moved away, and then there were some other doctrinal differences that had us going the other direction as well.


Some of us do not forsake the assembling, though we don't do it in a "church building" itself. :wave

[BarbT]

I believe there are legitimate reasons why one cannot attend a local church. Thanks, but you are not authorized to be giving or withholding approval in the matter. The Lord is quite capable of directing each person's course. :):
They are your family!
Believers are everywhere. Fellowship is everywhere. Maybe it's a question of who is not afraid to explore the alternatives to the idea man has created of "church". Poor Cameron. It seems to really chap your hide that increasing numbers of Christians are happy with the alternatives.
:D:
Ants, thanks for your wise input. :thumb I hope you and a few others here haven't hurt your heads banging on that brick wall. :lol

[Medic911]

:wave

[KrispyKritter]

When we left the institutional church, and began meeting in our home with other believers, we were subjected to much judgmentalism by well meaning believers who are of the mind set that church and fellowship is sitting in rows watching the music minister (as if that position is found anywhere in scripture), and then listening to a sermon.

Those things, to me, are the alternative! Meeting in homes over a big meal, and then sharing our lives together face to face (instead of face to back of head), studying the Word together, praying for each other... and then watching football... is where real fellowship happens.

One thing I have learned about those who are caught up in our Westernized American ideas of what church ought to be... they usually dont get it. They dont understand. They are bound by tradition.

I am not saying Cameron is like that, as I believe he has been in agreement w/me at times concerning the house church movement.

But when people display that type of attitude... then best thing to do is to ignore it. If you know God has spoken to your heart, and you're in His will... what difference does it make what someone else says? Be more concerned about what God says.

[RJs here]

ah ~ Krispy I would love to have something like that here!! :thumb

[BHiles]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Meeting in homes over a big meal, and then sharing our lives together face to face (instead of face to back of head), studying the Word together, praying for each other... and then watching football... is where real fellowship happens.


Sounds like what we did over Christmas and Thanksgiving :nod :nod

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by RJs here
ah ~ Krispy I would love to have something like that here!! :thumb

So start one... what are you waiting for? Someone to show up at your house with a graduate degree from Dallas Seminary?

If you feel led by the Holy Spirit to begin a house church... then do it. All you need is "2 or more" gathered together in His name... and He is there among you.

Check your motivations, and be sure you're not doing it out of rebellion against the institutional church. A proper heart for house churching is one that desires a closer relationship with Christ and His disciples. A heart that rejects traditions, and wants to serve the Lord according to His Word, and His Word only.

And also check out this link:

http://www.ntrf.org/Manual/workbook.htm

[BHiles]

B:boinkKK

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by BHiles
B:boinkKK

B :kiss KK ...wait, we're both men! :doh How 'bout just a ... :thumb

[RJs here]

well, thanks for the firm advice, suggestions, knuckle-sandwich... whatever you want to call it... ;):


As much as I would love the lifestyle of Walton-family get-togethers {and I'm DEAD SERIOUS about THAT!!!}.... The house church wouldn't work for me on a regular basis. I have trouble making a commitment at all ~ ANY COMMITMENT ~ even for something as enjoyable & pleasant as going to lunch w/a friend. Reason: I never know HOW SICK I am going to be from day to day. :sick

I miss out on a LOT of things!!! Activities with people!!! ~ just being together with others for FELLOWSHIP. Don't think for one minute that I do not WANT that!!! More than anything, I do!! It's thrown me into a *feel sorry for me* mode more times than most can ever imagine. And then the *salt on the wound* is to be chastised ~ as though I'm making up EXCUSES for not wanting to go to church.

And yes ~ I DO believe in healing, and have asked the Lord for such ~ but so far, it has not happened for me.

People simply don't realize just how SEVERE a problem I'm talking about.....
And for me -- it's not JUST perfume, folks ~ it's MCS {multiple chemical sensitivity) ~ means an aunt can come over not wearing any perfume -- but have some Keri hand lotion on.... which can set off a 48 hour migraine!! :eek A link with info for anyone who may be slightly interested in *LEARNING* about MCS: http://www.ourlittleplace.com/mcs.html

It may be cologne, it may be lotion, it may be hairspray, it can be shampoos ~ it can even be deoderants.....that set me off. It's ALL made from petroleum-related products, ya' know!? Or did ya' know?



With this problem {which I *HATE and DESPISE* having ~ not only does it make life *MISERABLE* :B: ~ but b/c some ppl simply refuse to understand it} ~ but anyway, this means ~ that many times, I feel like I have to practically live life in a bubble ~ cuz even going to the grocery store can make me *SICK* (and HAS!!) :B: ~ with the smells of cologne & perfume in the air around me..... {men's aftershave and/or cologne is absolutely THE Worst!!} **GAG**


:puke <--- done that before TOO!! ... thanks to the TOXIC industry of perfumes!! http://www.ourlittleplace.com/noperfume.html
http://www.ourlittleplace.com/perfume.html


Anyway ~ enough about me & my problems. I am NOT trying to *make an excuse* for not going to church & I RESENT it when ppl judge as such. {People wouldn't question ol' Uncle Joe's heart problems, eh? Then why question my health problems?}


.....and I really don't know why I'm TRYING to explain myself again.... ppl have their minds set & will either believe me or not. No water off my back one way or another. {except I do believe ppl will have to give an *answer* for judgmental attitudes...}





BTW ~ different subject all together ~ but this is an interesting article about how ppl the world over are tired of the *game* of "playing church". If one is blessed (fortunate) enough to have a GOOD church home as our friend, cameron, describes -- then MILK IT FOR *ALL* it's worth ~ for the time may come that you cannot attend anymore.


http://www.early-church.com/


THE "OUT-OF-CHURCH" CHRISTIANS
-by Andrew Strom.


This was the article that started it all. It got the biggest response I have ever had from anything I ever published. I was literally deluged with hundreds of emails for weeks. I am currently writing a book on the same topic. This original article was published on our 'ANZAC' email List on 4 April 2003.


RE: "OUT OF CHURCH" CHRISTIANS
-by Andrew Strom.
I am writing on a rather unusual topic today. On Monday night (31 March) I was invited onto a Christian Radio show in New Zealand to discuss the growing numbers of "Out-of- church" Christians in the West - people who have left the churches for various reasons but still claim a strong Christian faith. It was a very interesting night, and the phones ran hot.

This "Out-of-church" phenomenon has now grown so large that books are being written about it. In fact, several years ago I heard an estimate that there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of such Christians just in our largest city (-Auckland) alone. And I believe it is the same right across the Western nations. I have personally come into contact with literally hundreds of such people. The surprising thing is that they are often the most committed kind of Christians - praying, insightful, deep- thinking. Yet they have grown tired of "playing the game" inside our church system and have opted out. Often their involvement goes back many years. In fact, they had commonly been leaders of various kinds.

But now they have left. Why? The church obviously finds this a very difficult thing to explain or deal with. The usual accusations are often trotted out: "So-and-so has been hurt and has a root of bitterness". Or they are in "rebellion". Or they are "not a team player". Or they are "backsliding".

But if you talk to these people you will often find that they have been sitting in church for years and years, and they simply cannot stand to sit and watch the same old game being played any more. The LACK OF GOD is what gets to them - even in our most "Spirit-filled" churches. WHERE IS GOD IN ALL OF OUR ACTIVITY? Surely this is not the way it is supposed to be?

New fads and programs come and go, but the mediocrity and LACK OF GOD just seem to go on forever. And so quietly, sometimes without anyone even noticing, they slowly slip out the doors - never to return. Some have even told me that they felt God "calling them out". Others simply felt they couldn't stay there anymore. The state of the church weighed upon them more than words could say.

Very often they did the rounds of other churches, hoping against hope that they would find a place that felt "right" in any way. (-Though most of them are not "church-hoppers" by nature). But the places they visited never seemed any more "right" than the place they had left. And after a while it just seemed easier to stay at home with God.

As I said earlier, most of these people have not given up on Christianity at all. It is today's church system that they have given up on. And we are talking about large numbers here. Thousands are already opting out. And many feel like they are "waiting" for something.

Some of these people have started up home-fellowships. Or they meet with other couples on a casual basis. But many meet with nobody at all, and they consider themselves in a 'Wilderness' place - alone with God. (-Very common).

I was asked several weeks ago by a pastor whether I agreed that what is happening could be a 'move of God'. That is a pretty radical thought. Many leaders would think the opposite. Because anything that leads people out of "their church" can't be of God, can it?

Hmmmm. All I know is this: The concept of going through a 'Wilderness' just before entering the 'Promised Land' is totally Scriptural. In fact, it is right through the Bible. Even Jesus went through such a wilderness time.

But it is not possible to stay "alone" forever. Some day, if these people are going to be part of a new move of God's Spirit, they are going to have to come out of their wilderness and become part of the "BODY" that Jesus brings together - the 'new wineskin' that will come with this new move of God. Otherwise they could miss out. That is the great danger.

I'm sure there are many on this List with comments or testimonies relating to this topic. I would love to hear from you. It really is becoming a significant issue in the church.

God bless you, my friends.

Kindest regards in Christ,

Andrew Strom.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by RJs here
RE: "OUT OF CHURCH" CHRISTIANS
-by Andrew Strom.
I am writing on a rather unusual topic today. On Monday night (31 March) I was invited onto a Christian Radio show in New Zealand to discuss the growing numbers of "Out-of- church" Christians in the West - people who have left the churches for various reasons but still claim a strong Christian faith. It was a very interesting night, and the phones ran hot.

This "Out-of-church" phenomenon has now grown so large that books are being written about it. In fact, several years ago I heard an estimate that there are TENS OF THOUSANDS of such Christians just in our largest city (-Auckland) alone. And I believe it is the same right across the Western nations. I have personally come into contact with literally hundreds of such people. The surprising thing is that they are often the most committed kind of Christians - praying, insightful, deep- thinking. Yet they have grown tired of "playing the game" inside our church system and have opted out. Often their involvement goes back many years. In fact, they had commonly been leaders of various kinds.

But now they have left. Why? The church obviously finds this a very difficult thing to explain or deal with. The usual accusations are often trotted out: "So-and-so has been hurt and has a root of bitterness". Or they are in "rebellion". Or they are "not a team player". Or they are "backsliding".

But if you talk to these people you will often find that they have been sitting in church for years and years, and they simply cannot stand to sit and watch the same old game being played any more. The LACK OF GOD is what gets to them - even in our most "Spirit-filled" churches. WHERE IS GOD IN ALL OF OUR ACTIVITY? Surely this is not the way it is supposed to be?

New fads and programs come and go, but the mediocrity and LACK OF GOD just seem to go on forever. And so quietly, sometimes without anyone even noticing, they slowly slip out the doors - never to return. Some have even told me that they felt God "calling them out". Others simply felt they couldn't stay there anymore. The state of the church weighed upon them more than words could say.

Very often they did the rounds of other churches, hoping against hope that they would find a place that felt "right" in any way. (-Though most of them are not "church-hoppers" by nature). But the places they visited never seemed any more "right" than the place they had left. And after a while it just seemed easier to stay at home with God.

As I said earlier, most of these people have not given up on Christianity at all. It is today's church system that they have given up on. And we are talking about large numbers here. Thousands are already opting out. And many feel like they are "waiting" for something.

Some of these people have started up home-fellowships. Or they meet with other couples on a casual basis. But many meet with nobody at all, and they consider themselves in a 'Wilderness' place - alone with God. (-Very common).

I was asked several weeks ago by a pastor whether I agreed that what is happening could be a 'move of God'. That is a pretty radical thought. Many leaders would think the opposite. Because anything that leads people out of "their church" can't be of God, can it?

Hmmmm. All I know is this: The concept of going through a 'Wilderness' just before entering the 'Promised Land' is totally Scriptural. In fact, it is right through the Bible. Even Jesus went through such a wilderness time.

But it is not possible to stay "alone" forever. Some day, if these people are going to be part of a new move of God's Spirit, they are going to have to come out of their wilderness and become part of the "BODY" that Jesus brings together - the 'new wineskin' that will come with this new move of God. Otherwise they could miss out. That is the great danger.

This article is right on the money... except for the last paragraph. Everything else tho is exactly what we have gone thru. The only thing that I dont agree with is that he seems to be saying that as long as someone is outside the institutional church then they are in the wilderness alone with the Lord... and he seems to be indicating that at some point we need to come back into the institutional church in order not to miss out on a move of God.

Not so... we're experience an incredible move of the Spirit among the house church movement. The personal spiritual growth in my own family has been incredible! I believe we are in the promised land!

[BHiles]

In my world, Church is not the building or the meeting we attend on Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. Church is involved in practically every bit of social interaction other than work that we are involved in. We are quite fortunate to have Christian Schools. My children are taught by friends of mine. These are the same friends who happen to be in the same meetings on Sunday. We attend activities with these and other friends throughout the week. Sporting events, Rehersals, Project work, Mission meetings, Evangelism, our lives our intertwined in community and that community is the church. Church is not just the assembling but we do that too, church is our community. Now we do go into the world to evangelize and to work but our social lives and some of our work lives and all of our corporate worship is involved with the rest of Christ's body. In this God has given us a little bit of what heaven will be like albeit without the sin. If you have this kind of opportunity I would not miss it for the world. Literally!

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by BHiles
In my world, Church is not the building or the meeting we attend on Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night. Church is involved in practically every bit of social interaction other than work that we are involved in. We are quite fortunate to have Christian Schools. My children are taught by friends of mine. These are the same friends who happen to be in the same meetings on Sunday. We attend activities with these and other friends throughout the week. Sporting events, Rehersals, Project work, Mission meetings, Evangelism, our lives our intertwined in community and that community is the church. Church is not just the assembling but we do that too, church is our community. Now we do go into the world to evangelize and to work but our social lives and some of our work lives and all of our corporate worship is involved with the rest of Christ's body. In this God has given us a little bit of what heaven will be like albeit without the sin. If you have this kind of opportunity I would not miss it for the world. Literally!

Amen ...couldn't have said it better!

[BarbT]

Reva, thanks so much for posting the article! As for the *wilderness* analogy...well, it sure is lovely out here traveling with the Lord! :D: He keeps "dropping" terrific Christians into my life who pray with me {even at work!}, rejoice at His coming, and show me TRUE fellowship! I haven't been to church in 11 months but I have never felt closer to our Lord or to the Body of Christ.

Krispy, your wonderful description of your home fellowship is exactly the model I have been praying for this last year. I'm sitting here positively *green* with envy! :):

Thus far the Lord has advised me to *be patient & wait*. I have no idea if He plans to connect me to an existing home group or bring like-minded Zionist Christians {gotta honor Israel!] into my midst to start a new fellowship. The only thing I know is that God will raise it up when He is ready! :thumb

I only hope that others following this thread can know they are not necessarily doing anything wrong by worshipping differently than the traditional Sunday paradigm. Prayerfully listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit -- He may also be telling you to "be patient & wait".

;): :wave

[sunshine4jesus]

then MILK IT FOR *ALL* it's worth ~ for the time may come that you cannot attend anymore

This sounds just a little bit like comparing a person who is happy serving in a local church to a person taking unfair advantage of a situation. Just kind of left a bad taste in my mouth.

For those who have med. problems there are outreach programs.
My mom did home Sunday school on a one-on-one basis for shut-ins.

I am not judgemental about those who do not attend a local church, whatever their reason. Our pastor's wife misses some because of allergy/sinus problems.
I think what upsets me is the almost attacks on the local church.
Like people are against them because they were unable to structure their lives accordingly/

by BarbT;

2- hours-on-Sunday-morning formula.

traditional Sunday paradigm

By KrispyKritter
A heart that rejects traditions, and wants to serve the Lord according to His Word, and His Word only.

well meaning believers who are of the mind set that church and fellowship is sitting in rows watching the music minister (as if that position is found anywhere in scripture), and then listening to a sermon.

A traditional local church that is 2 hours on Sunday, does not serve the Lord according to His Word, and watches the music minister is not the norm for a local church.

And yes, musicians were paid in the temples. Nehemiah 13:47. Just one example.

KK, it sounds like you have a great local home church.
BHiles, Just sounds great. What is your church affiliation? Seems like I ought to know....and can't remember.
:):

[BHiles]

Originally posted by sunshine4jesus
BHiles, Just sounds great. What is your church affiliation? Seems like I ought to know....and can't remember.


Independant Fundamental Baptist with an emphasis on Fun and Mental.:D:

[Welcome Back]

Oh..... my...... goodness!!!!


You people will argue about anything, won't you? :twitch

[FollowerofJesus]

I attend a home church similar to Krispy & it is very edifying. I have pledge allegiance to many manmade institution. I walked away from the institution. I've felt like I've grown more in this time than all through life.

[savedandhappy1]

Originally posted by Welcome Back
Oh..... my...... goodness!!!!


You people will argue about anything, won't you? :twitch

Yes, it seems they will. I posted this thread for those, oh well the post speaks for its self.

I too have migranes, allergies, cardiac problems, auto immune diseases at least 3, have thrown over 6 blood clots, etc. I go to church when I can, come home sick sometimes, but for me, again let me say for me. I need the fellowship with others of the body, and I take the chance and go. Makes me stronger, and helps me forget about all the times I have had to miss things because of all my illnesses. Enough said.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[KrispyKritter]

... I didnt think we were arguing...

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
... I didnt think we were arguing... Oh, yes we were!

:D:

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Hootmon
Oh, yes we were!

:D:

Oh yea??? You wanna make somethin' of it, bub?

:deadhorse -- me and my cousins beatin' your #*$&!

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
:deadhorse -- me and my cousins beatin' your #*$&!

a dead one at that.. :angel

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by antsinmypants
a dead one at that.. :angel My #*$&! is still quite alive, thankyouverymuch...

[savedandhappy1]

Ok now children do I have to send you to your rooms.:pound


I missed a few illnesses if anybody wants me to list them. :laugh

Anyhow didn't want to start a fight, but ok everyone to your corners and wait for the bell.:pound

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
Yes, it seems they will. I posted this thread for those, oh well the post speaks for its self.

I wasn't arguing, but stating my case to Cameron, who thinks like atleast three other churches I have attended in my short life did.

My mom nearly died giving birth to me. Did the church she worked for & volunteered & Taught at.. come and visit or help? No.

My dad had a severe grease accident thereafter, and they thought I had meningitis..

did they come visit, chat, or call.. or help? no.

Infact, when my parents went back, they asked what kind of sins they had that were unconfessed in their lives, and why they hadn't been there :tsk

I've since been to two others like this. One I left over a year ago for combination reasons, Illness topping the list, false teaching following closely and no edification or accountability being third.

No calls, no mail.. nothing-- and I helped out too.


I have since found another congregation and am happy there. but I cannot always attend due to my health... and if I am feeling bad and want to go, I can't get anyone in my family to drive me there. it's only 20 miles away.. big whup. Not but 30 minutes.

I could call someone, but there's only one family in my area, and they're usually on vacation or helping another congregation so I don't ask.

If my parents say No, don't go-- I don't go.
It falls into the submission and taking care of yourself category.


Sometimes, we're meant to be sick so we draw closer to G-d and lean on him, rather than other people.

But, sometimes, G-d makes ways so we can attend our congregations when not up to par.. sometimes - - especially when we have colds-- we shouldn't go.

For the last year or so, I didn't know how sick I would be day to day.. and sometimes I couldn't even drag myself to my congregation. But I emailed and let people know where I was and studied the message on my own... and when I got back, everyone filled me in on what happened, what the speaker said, etc.. so it was as if I never missed anything.


Sometimes, there aren't any good congregations and G-d leads us to wait-- or start our own.


Sometimes, G-d puts people in our paths so we can minister to them and edify them, and create a "help group"...


and with all those sometimes-- more people don't listen because they're already "too busy" to add anything else to their list. :(:


But, Where there is a will, there is a way-- for ANYTHING. It takes faith and patience and grace to get through things and understand what G-d is doing and why. :):

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
Anyhow didn't want to start a fight, but ok everyone to your corners and wait for the bell.

awwwwwwww

do we hafta? :cry



















:D:

[savedandhappy1]

Yes, now don't make me call your father.:pound


Isn't this more fun then fighting.:laugh


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
Yes, now don't make me call your father.:pound

I don't want a whuppin when I get home.. noooooooo!! :(:

::trods off to the corner::

[savedandhappy1]

:pound :pound :pound :pound


Ok you can come out of the corner now, but behave.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
Ok you can come out of the corner now, but behave.

mhhhhh ok :D: