Prophetess ?

[savedandhappy1]

In the old Testament there are 5 prophetesses that I know of. I have some guestions.

1. I saw on another thread that someone said there is a search engine on this site. I didn't know this, and I don't know where it is or how to use it. Could someone give me alittle hint.

2. Does anyone know if there is anything there on the 5 prophetesses, and the scriptures that talks about women not talking in church.

Thank you all for your help.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Changes]

Up across the top of the board there is a search function....

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the scriptures that talks about women not talking in church.

Oh, I'm sure there is....:P:

[savedandhappy1]

Thank you so much. I hate looking so dumb, but I read some of the buttons across the top, but guess I didn't read them all.

1 Cor. has a scripture, about women in church, but that is where my confusion comes in. If there is prophetesses, and there were, were they not to talk in church?


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[MikeJ]

I've heard a Pastor, Raul Rees of Calvary Chapel, say that the Apostle Paul wrote I Cor 14:34-35 because during services some women would ask their husbands to explain what Paul had just said. He said that the women and men sat on different sides of the building and they would have to shout to converse with one another. Obviously, this disrupted the service and angered Paul.

This probably doesn't answer your question at all but it's all I can come up with.

[CrossLightMin]

:wave

One of the best written and interesting articles I have read concerning this type of topic is found at:

http://www.ptmin.org/women.htm

It is rather long, but worth the reading.






His servant
stacie

[Willo]

This is how I had the women to remain silent in church verse explained to me;

In the culture of that day, woman were treated as second class citzens, they had not education, and bassed on Middle eatern culture, it was generally looked down on if a woman spoke to any other male.

[WaryEyes]

I know of Deborah, Huldah, and Anna as being prophetesses.

Willo's response is probably not far off regarding why Paul wrote about women remaining quiet in church (Notice Huldah was educated, therefore, men of the time could most likely not deny that her say was as good as any man's.)...

However, I would just say be careful reading Paul's writtings as he tends to skip back and forth between his opinions and the actual word of God. Sometimes he has some kind of warning to let you know if he is straying a bit like 1Cor 7:25.

Judges 4:4 "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time."

2 Kings 22:14 "So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her."

Luke 2:36 "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"

[onsolidrock]

1CO 14:34 * Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 * And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

[1CO 14:21] In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

I think that this is referring to speaking in tongues because of the law [Old Testament prophecy]

[1CO 11:5] But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

Paul allows women to prophecie [spelling?] and pray.

In 1st Timothy Paul forbids women to teach or have authority over men because of the different roles that we were created for.

[glorymj]

Originally posted by WaryEyes
However, I would just say be careful reading Paul's writtings as he tends to skip back and forth between his opinions and the actual word of God. It is very dangerous to suggest this. The Word of God is a whole. When you start saying that this part or that is only "Paul's opinion" it allows picking and choosing of what you will adhere to. It pulls the infallible Word down to fallibility.. and it is a slippery slope when you have done that.

[Wileyzmuse]

There are precise wordings in the NT where Paul says things like "Not the Lord, but I say or recommend blah blah blah..." I think that is what the previous poster was referring to.

Also there is a reference in Acts 21 (I think that's right) of a farmer who had 4 virgin daughters who prophesied.

[antsinmypants]

Phillip's daughters were the four virgin prophetesses.

The women didn't sit in seperate ends of the congregations-- they were with their husbands.
Only in the temple were men and women seperated-- and then after the Roman Era, it had started in the synogogues that men and women were sitting seperately like in the Old Order Amish churches.

The reason that women were told to be "silent" is because they were upsurping their husband and leader's positions... in Corinth, as this is where the letter was sent.
The proper way for a women to pray or prophesy as Paul has directed with the permission of the L-rd is with a headcovering.

Women have their role
Men have theirs

It's all laid out in 1 & 2 Corinthians, 1 & 2 Timothy and in Titus.

:wave

[savedandhappy1]

I thought it was Philip's daughters that were the prophetesses, I will have to look again thank you.

Also what about Anna, who stay in the temple, and told everyone who came in about Jesus. Would that be considered teaching in the church by todays standards?


Thank you all for your responses, please keep them coming. It help me find places and think about things that maybe I have not thought of yet. Again thank you.:thumb



Love In Christ
Kathy

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
Also what about Anna, who stay in the temple, and told everyone who came in about Jesus. Would that be considered teaching in the church by todays standards?

She was teaching and prophesying.. but she was in all modesty and it was done according to the standards of the Bible. :thumb

I'll have to study more on her..

[savedandhappy1]

Ants:thumb

I appreciate your comments on this, and will be looking for more from you. Thanks again.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[antsinmypants]

Here is what I can find right now:


Luk 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asshur: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luk 2:37 And she [was] a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served [God] with fastings and prayers night and day.
Luk 2:38 And she coming in that instant gave thanks likewise unto the Lord, and spake of him to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.





Matthew Henry:


II. He is taken notice of by one Anna, or Ann, a prophetess, that one of each sex might bear witness to him in whom both men and women are invited to believe, that they may be saved. Observe,

1. The account here given of this Anna, who she was. She was, (1.) A prophetess; the Spirit of prophecy now began to revive, which had ceased in Israel above three hundred years. Perhaps no more is meant than that she was one who had understanding in the scriptures above other women, and made it her business to instruct the younger women in the things of God. Though it was a very degenerate age of the church, yet God left not himself without witness. (2.) She was the daughter of Phanuel; her father’s name (says Grotius) is mentioned, to put us in mind of Jacob’s Phanuel, or Penuel (Gen. 32:30), that now the mystery of that should be unfolded, when in Christ we should as it were see God face to face, and our lives be preserved; and her name signifies gracious. (3.) She was of the tribe of Asher, which was in Galilee; this, some think, is taken notice of to refute those who said, Out of Galilee ariseth no prophet, when no sooner did prophecy revive but it appeared from Galilee. (4.) She was of a great age, a widow of about eighty-four years; some think she had now been eighty-four years a widow, and then she must be considerably above a hundred years old; others, rather than suppose that a woman so very old should be capable of fasting and praying as she did, suppose that she was only eighty-four years of age, and had been long a widow. Though she was a young widow, and had lived with her husband but seven years, yet she never married again, but continued a widow to her dying day, which is mentioned to her praise. (5.) She was a constant resident in or at least attendant on the temple. Some think she had lodgings in the courts of the temple, either in an alms-house, being maintained by the temple charities; or, as a prophetess, she was lodged there, as in a proper place to be consulted and advised with by those that desired to know the mind of God; others think her not departing from the temple means no more, than that she was constantly there at the time of divine service: when any good work was to be done, she was ready to join in it. It is most probable she had an apartment of her own among the out-buildings of the temple; and, besides her constant attendance on the public worship, abounded in private devotions, for she served God with fastings and prayers night and day: having no secular business to employ herself in, or being past it, she gave up herself wholly to her devotions, and not only fasted twice in the week, but always lived a mortified life, and spent that time in religious exercises which others spent in eating and drinking and sleeping; she not only observed the hours of prayer, but prayed night and day; was always in a praying frame, lived a life of prayer, gave herself to prayer, was frequent in ejaculations, large in solemn prayers, and very particular in her intercessions. And in these she served God; that was it that put a value upon them and an excellency into them. The Pharisees fasted often, and made long prayers, but they served themselves, and their own pride and covetousness, in their fastings and prayers; but this good woman not only did that which was good, but did it from a good principle, and with a good end; she served God, and aimed at his honour, in fasting and praying. Note, [1.] Devotion is a thing we ought to be constant in; other duties are in season now and then, but we must pray always. [2.] It is a pleasant sight to see aged Christians abounding in acts of devotion, as those that are not weary of well-doing, that do not think themselves above these exercises, or past them, but that take more and more pleasure in them, and see more and more need of them, till they come to heaven. [3.] Those that are diligent and faithful in improving the light and means they have shall have further discoveries made them. Anna is now at length abundantly recompensed for her attendance so many years in the temple.

2. The testimony she bore to our Lord Jesus (v. 38): She came in at that instant when the child was presented, and Simeon discoursed concerning him; she, who was so constant to the temple, could not miss the opportunity.

Now, (1.) She gave thanks likewise to the Lord, just as Simeon, perhaps like him, wishing now to depart in peace. Note, Those to whom Christ is made known have reason enough to give thanks to the Lord for so great a favour; and we should be excited to that duty by the praises and thanksgivings of others; why should not we give thanks likewise, as well as they? Anna concurred with Simeon, and helped to make up the harmony. She confessed unto the Lord (so it may be read); she made an open profession of her faith concerning this child.

(2.) She, as a prophetess, instructed others concerning him: She spoke of him to all them that believed the Messiah would come, and with him looked for redemption in Jerusalem. Redemption was the thing wanted, waited for, and wished for; redemption in Jerusalem, for thence the word of the Lord was to go forth, Isa, 2:3. Some there were in Jerusalem that looked for redemption; yet but a few, for Anna, it should seem, had acquaintance with all them that were joint-expectants with her of the Messiah; she knew where to find them, or they where to find her, and she told them all the good news, that she had seen the Lord; and it was great news, this of his birth now, as afterwards that of his resurrection. Note, Those that have an acquaintance with Christ themselves should do all they can to bring others acquainted with him.




Jaimeson, Faucett and Brown:

36. Anna--or, Hannah.
a prophetess--another evidence that "the last times" in which God was to "pour out His Spirit upon all flesh" were at hand.
of the tribe of Asshur--one of the ten tribes, of whom many were not carried captive, and not a few reunited themselves to Judah after the return from Babylon. The distinction of tribes, though practically destroyed by the captivity, was well enough known up to their final dispersion ( Rom 11:1 Hbr 7:14 ); nor is it now entirely lost.
lived, &c.--she had lived seven years with her husband ( Luk 2:36 ), and been a widow eighty-four years; so that if she married at the earliest marriageable age, twelve years, she could not at this time be less than a hundred three years old.

37. departed not from the temple--was found there at all stated hours of the day, and even during the night services of the temple watchmen ( Psa 134:1, 2 ), "serving God with fastings and prayer." (See 1Ti 5:5 , suggested by this.)

38. coming in--"presenting herself." She had been there already but now is found "standing by," as Simeon's testimony to the blessed Babe died away, ready to take it up "in turn" (as the word rendered "likewise" here means).
to all them, &c.--the sense is, "to all them in Jerusalem that were looking for redemption"--saying in effect, In that Babe are wrapt up all your expectations. If this was at the hour of prayer, when numbers flocked to the temple, it would account for her having such an audience as the words imply [ALFORD].

[savedandhappy1]

Thanks Ants.

So if Anna was in the temple either daily or all day long, telling all (that would mean men and women), then where does that stand with the women should be quiet thing?

In some other scriptures it talks about elders, and mentions the discriptions of old and young men, and old and young women. Again some people would think that only men could be elders, because isn't this considered an authority position?

Just some guestions I am wondering about.

One of the prophetesses even was like over men. I will have to look up which one, but read it last night. The men came to her to see what to do.

Just some guestions I have been looking into.

Thanks you all for your pasted and hopefully some more feelings and scriptures about this.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[WaryEyes]

Opps! double post :doh

[WaryEyes]

It is very dangerous to suggest this. The Word of God is a whole. When you start saying that this part or that is only "Paul's opinion" it allows picking and choosing of what you will adhere to. It pulls the infallible Word down to fallibility.. and it is a slippery slope when you have done that. --Glorymj

I did not mean in any way to suggest that the Word is faulty Glorymj

However, Paul himself wrote: 1 Corinthians 7:25 "Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful."

Though I still agree with Paul's point on the subject, Paul himself said the case of virgins is his opinion and not of the Lord, not me. So my statement is not just my opinion, it is there, Paul said it...not sure what you are saying? Look over this statement of Pauls? ignore it? Or did you think I was just assuming that Paul placed his own opinions in his writting?

[MrMannn]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1


Also what about Anna, who stay in the temple, and told everyone who came in about Jesus. Would that be considered teaching in the church by todays standards?

Love In Christ
Kathy

She was in a TEMPLE, not a church.
The Corinthian verse had NOT YET been written.

Besides the Word of God (which we know is sound and true)revealed her as a prophetess. She was a spirit filled woman whom God revealed His Word to. If she is good enough for God, then she is good enough for me. This woman was obeying God by being where He wanted her! And that obediance placed her Smack Dab in middle of the Temple. I don't see obediance to God as a sin.

I really don't see what the fuss is about this. In my church women give anouncements and sing. I don't think we should brutally repress any expression by women in church.
And didn't Paul bless women elders?! scandalous!

[almondeyes73]

http://luvjc.net/emoticons/clapping/0016.gif

[Hyssop]

[i]

Women have their role
Men have theirs

It's all laid out in 1 & 2 Corinthians, 1 & 2 Timothy and in Titus.

:wave [/B]

:nod :dancing Following the 'roles' is a good thing :):

[antsinmypants]

From what I understand -- Hannah stayed in the Women's Pavillion area.. but this time, was either in the area when Simon saw Y'shua and testified knowing who He was-- OR, they were passing by the women's area, and she walked up.

The same set of rules that Paul laid out, are the same set of rules seen throughout Torah and even "Oral Torah" (though to the extreme.. and that's Rabbinical, not Biblical Law).. and also in Talmud and Mishnah (Rabbinical commentary and writings on the bible.. and not always do they agree :freaked)

:wave

[Geoff274544]

I was going to read a book the other week, but did'nt buy it. It was about Women in the church and how people have been decepted into believing that women have no place in the church.

I think the book was valled 10 Lies about women, or something like that.

[antsinmypants]

Geoff, I've flipped through that book-- It's not worth the paper it's printed on.

Too many half truths..

[Geoff274544]

Thanks, glad I decided to buy "The Full Circle" instead.