Why do christians celebrate Christmas?

[adelphos]

Every winter solstice christians of every denomination celebrate Christmas, one of the most popular holyday in the western hemisphere. Since is a well know fact that Jesus Christ wasn't born December the 25th, or not even in the month of December for that matter, I often wonder why are we so attached to this tradition. In this day and month of the year the Romans were use to celebrate the winter solstice with the exchanging of gifts called Saturnalia. I intend to elaborate more on this subject, but first I'd like to read some opininion before sharing with you why I believe that christians shouldn't celebrate this pagan festivity.

[Chris4Christ]

I think you've answered your own question.

Pagans celebrate winter solstice. Christians celebrate the birth of Christ. Two different celebrations.

Scripture has this to say:

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

:): :wave

[BarbT]

Maybe CHRISTians celebrate CHRISTmas for obvious reasons.

Besides, all the exegesis proving that it's wrong for believers to honor His birth is wasted on the unsaved. They have no idea what you're talking about. They DO, however, understand people displaying joy at their Savior's birth -- it's a perfect witnessing opportunity. Dec 25 or May 1....doesn't matter when He was born but THAT He was born.

And every day is a day God made and they are all GOOD.

>>It's really a shame when people dredge up this useless information every year and try to peddle it to whoever will listen. <<

[scottruff]

:yawn

[KrispyKritter]

Actually, the reason we celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December has more to do with areodynamics than anything else...

See, on the 25th of December there is an upper level disturbance, causing a change in atmospheric pressure. When that change occurs it allows for flight to be possible at higher elevations which makes world travel possible at faster rates of speed. This allows Santa Claus to bring toys and goodies to all the good little boys and girls of the world... so long as they are not Muslim or Hindu or something like that.

There was one Christmas Eve when the atmospheric pressure was not as it should be, and it actually caused a big world-wide blizzard to occur. This baffled most meteorologists. Santa almost had to cancel Christmas. Fortunately for all the boys and girls, there was this one particular reindeer who was nostrilly challenged, and was considered to be a freak by all the other reindeer because of his big red shiney nose. These politically incorrect reindeer wouldnt even let him play in any reindeer games, if you can believe that.

But on this particular Christmas Eve... Santa came to say "Rudolf, with you're nose so bright, wont you guide my sleigh tonight?" Well... at first, Rudolf was offended because it is considered politically incorrect to even notice or make mention of someone's "special needs", but sensing that he could take advantage of this affirmative action situation, he negotiated a big salary with Santa... and he single hoofidly saved Christmas.

In the end tho, Rudolf was fired from his position because it turned out that his big red shiney nose was caused by his affection for Yukon Jack whiskey, and not some sort of genetic blunder. He now flies for Southwestern.

And that is why we celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December.

[CrossLightMin]

:wave

We don't.

We bake a cake and sing Happy Birthday to Jesus on Jan 1 of every year in order to dedicate to Him this new year and thank Him for being born...


We exchange gifts knowing that where two or three are gathered, He is here.



Happy New Year
Happy Birthday Jesus



His servant
stacie

[rs41]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Actually, the reason we celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December has more to do with areodynamics than anything else...

See, on the 25th of December there is an upper level disturbance, causing a change in atmospheric pressure. When that change occurs it allows for flight to be possible at higher elevations which makes world travel possible at faster rates of speed. This allows Santa Claus to bring toys and goodies to all the good little boys and girls of the world... so long as they are not Muslim or Hindu or something like that.

There was one Christmas Eve when the atmospheric pressure was not as it should be, and it actually caused a big world-wide blizzard to occur. This baffled most meteorologists. Santa almost had to cancel Christmas. Fortunately for all the boys and girls, there was this one particular reindeer who was nostrilly challenged, and was considered to be a freak by all the other reindeer because of his big red shiney nose. These politically incorrect reindeer wouldnt even let him play in any reindeer games, if you can believe that.

But on this particular Christmas Eve... Santa came to say "Rudolf, with you're nose so bright, wont you guide my sleigh tonight?" Well... at first, Rudolf was offended because it is considered politically incorrect to even notice or make mention of someone's "special needs", but sensing that he could take advantage of this affirmative action situation, he negotiated a big salary with Santa... and he single hoofidly saved Christmas.

In the end tho, Rudolf was fired from his position because it turned out that his big red shiney nose was caused by his affection for Yukon Jack whiskey, and not some sort of genetic blunder. He now flies for Southwestern.

And that is why we celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December. :pound

[andy]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Actually, the reason we celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December has more to do with areodynamics than anything else...

See, on the 25th of December there is an upper level disturbance, causing a change in atmospheric pressure. When that change occurs it allows for flight to be possible at higher elevations which makes world travel possible at faster rates of speed. This allows Santa Claus to bring toys and goodies to all the good little boys and girls of the world... so long as they are not Muslim or Hindu or something like that.

There was one Christmas Eve when the atmospheric pressure was not as it should be, and it actually caused a big world-wide blizzard to occur. This baffled most meteorologists. Santa almost had to cancel Christmas. Fortunately for all the boys and girls, there was this one particular reindeer who was nostrilly challenged, and was considered to be a freak by all the other reindeer because of his big red shiney nose. These politically incorrect reindeer wouldnt even let him play in any reindeer games, if you can believe that.

But on this particular Christmas Eve... Santa came to say "Rudolf, with you're nose so bright, wont you guide my sleigh tonight?" Well... at first, Rudolf was offended because it is considered politically incorrect to even notice or make mention of someone's "special needs", but sensing that he could take advantage of this affirmative action situation, he negotiated a big salary with Santa... and he single hoofidly saved Christmas.

In the end tho, Rudolf was fired from his position because it turned out that his big red shiney nose was caused by his affection for Yukon Jack whiskey, and not some sort of genetic blunder. He now flies for Southwestern.

And that is why we celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December.

:freaked :freaked :pound

[KrispyKritter]

On a serious note... I don't think most Christians are celebrating any Roman gods, or anything like that when they celebrate Christmas. I also think that most Christians understand that December 25 is not Jesus's birthday. Paul talked about eating meat that was sacrificed to idols because some of the Jewish people insisted that believers shouldn't eat of it. They based this belief on the Mosaic Law. But Paul insisted that those idols could do nothing to either condemn or purify that meat because they were not real. Neither are the Roman gods. Paul said to go ahead and eat and be thankful, unless your conscience bothers you about it... and then you sin if you do partake. Not because of eating the meat, but because you're not being honest with yourself about your conviction.

So to those who would say that we should not celebrate Christ's birth on Decemeber 25 because of Roman connections... I say... you should not do it if that is your conviction. But you should not, nor will you, but the rest of us under that law.

Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas

[Teresa]

:pound That was great Krispy. Thanks for starting my morning off with a good laugh.

[KrispyKritter]

I'm amazed... for 2 weeks now I have been ending most of my posts with "Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas" .... and no one has aked me why!

There may a be couple on here who know... like Ants...

Geeezz... try to be funny and it flies right by everyone.

Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas!

[antsinmypants]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas!

:): Happy Chanukkah :): :wave

[ConservPride]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
I'm amazed... for 2 weeks now I have been ending most of my posts with "Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas" .... and no one has aked me why!

There may a be couple on here who know... like Ants...

Geeezz... try to be funny and it flies right by everyone.

Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas!

Just so you know, I noticed and chuckled. ;): :D:

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by ConservPride
Just so you know, I noticed and chuckled. ;): :D:

I just wanna be all inclusive... dont wanna offend no one... we're all God's children... yadda yadda yadda... toke toke toke....

[CrossLightMin]

:wave

I noticed

and I wondered..
but I read one of your posts that explained...

then I wondered..
...


God speed to you and your family on your travels.



May the Lord bless each of us, and in turn, may we be a blessing to those around us.
May His mighty Name be glorified in all we say and all we do.



His servant
stacie

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by CrossLightMin
:wave

I noticed

and I wondered..
but I read one of your posts that explained...

then I wondered..
...


Rest assured... I use that phrase w/ tongue planted firmly in cheek!

[pilgrimgal]

I celebrate Christmas to honor the birth of my Savior, whether or not that was the date of his birth. To have an additional occasion to celebrate with my family the love that He has shared with me.

[KrispyKritter]

I wonder when adelphos is gonna come back and explain to us his position... or have we butchered this thread so far beyond description that there isnt any point in trying to get back on track...

Sorry adelphos ... :wave

[adelphos]

I'd like to thank everyone for the opinions that you have kindly posted. I must say that, given the content of you're answers, the subject I've posted seems to be a matter well know to many of you, therefore I'm truly thankful for such insights extremely helpful for my personal grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. However I'd like to share with you my point of view regarding Christmas or "Wintermas" if you prefer.
I believe The Bible gives us a good example of how to examine a belief to see if it is correct. When Paul traveled to Berea, he taught the Bereans certain things that must have been surprising to them. It is interesting to note that they were willing to give them a fair hearing by carefukky examining the Scriptures.
the result was, as we read in Acts 17:11-12 that theseand women "were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. Therefore many of them believed..."
I'm saying this cause I'm honestly convinced that the bible must be our only and final authority on everything we do.
I will divide this in 3 parts, cause I'm very interested in the posting of you're opininions and comments at the end of each part.
1 - I personally like the phrase "Jesus is the reason for the season" very much, however the question is: is He really?
Let's examine for a moment the historical connections between the exchanging of gifts on the 12 days of Christmas and customs originating in the ancient pagan Babylon. the populare date of Dec. 25 has infact more to do with the Roman Saturnalia celebration than with Jesus.
As we look into the NT, nowhere we do see jesus' disceples observing His brithday. In the early christian community the Saturnalia, an ancient roma festival celebrated by the end of December in honor of Saturn, the god of agriculture. During that time of the year it was also custumary for many other religions to conduct festivals based on the winter solstice in the northern hemisphere, when days are the shortest, to appease the various gods to restore the sun and bring an end to winter.
Such festival inlcuded drunkness and other practices diameterically opposed to the teachings of Jesus. Yet history has witnessed this holiday to develop eventually into Christmas. I think is of great importance to ask our selfs what happened to change many christians from the apostle Paul's preactice of abhorring and resisting those pagan forms of worship, at thata time very well known among the early christians, to accepting and then partecipating in such horrible practices in the name of Christ?
Those were times in wich tremendous forces pressured the Christians away from the original instructions to avoid mixing idolatry with the worship of the true God. While many were converting to Christianity, refused to give up the rituals and cerimonies of their former religious experiences.
As a matter of fact the Saturnalia were fun to many, to the Christians were an abomination in homage to a god who had no existence anyway. the Church Fathers discovered that they were also facing an invasion of pagan custums with the many conversions to christianity. That habit was too strong to be left behind indeed, even though the church forbade it in the beginning, but in vain.
End of first part.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by adelphos
As we look into the NT, nowhere we do see jesus' disceples observing His brithday.

Thanx for getting back to us about this...

You said a lot (and apparently have a lot more) so I will address most of this in general terms.

The quote I highlighted above... let me just say that this may have been the case. Who knows? The Church of Christ uses a very similar argument to say that we should not use musical instruments in church because after all... no where does it show that musical instruments were used in the NT. Well, it doesnt mention a lot of things in the NT. If we use that as a benchmark, then there are a lot things we need to dispose of... like suits and ties. Oh, and these same folks hold to the tithe... yet it's never taught in the NT. Thats duplicity.

As for the rest of your post... I've read all of this before. Simply put, I know of no Christians who are worshipping Saturn. Until Saturn comes out with a muscle-car version of their vehicles, I'm not even interested in owning one.

Seriously tho... the fact is, Christmas is what it is. If for no other reason than scheduling, since it is already slated as a day to remember when God sent His son to be sacrificed in our place for the redemption of the lost... why not? There is no harm in it. I dont think anyone is compromising their devotion to God by celebrating His coming into the world on Christmas.

Brother... if your conscience does not allow you to participate, then dont do it. I can tell by the tone of your post that you are not passing judgement on anyone, and I think that is very commendable. I'm excited by the opportunity to set a day aside in which I can just spend it with my wife and children, and whoever else drops by... and for the opportunity to again share with my kids about what Jesus did for us.

It matters not to me where the holiday came from, and to be honest with you, it wasnt until well-meaning Christians made me aware of the pagan history of it that I even gave it a thought. It's Christians who put those thoughts in my head... until then, it was a Christian emphasis that I knew of.

I'd be careful of what you're putting out there too, because it's word for word what I hear from Jehovah's Witnesses. I've done a lot of study on them, and you're walking real close to the edge here. Just a friendly warning.

But like I said... if eating meat that was offered to idols is offensive to you, then dont. I wont judge you in that. I'd rather see you not participate than to sin against your conscience.

I dont think you're gonna change any minds w/this thread, but I appreciate your concern anyway.

[KrispyKritter]

BTW... Easter has pagan roots too. Should we not celebrate Christ's sacrifice on the cross either?

Just about every tradition we have in the church as far as how our services are conducted ... everything from sermons to the communion table... comes from the Roman & Greek pagan culture. Now, if you want to discuss that, I think our time would be better served.

But I find that those who want to make an issue of Christmas hold to many traditions going on in the church which have pagan roots... thats an interesting duplicity to me.

[Vickimac]

I was listening to the song "Mary, did you know" on the way to work today. The words absorbed me. Nobody can take Christmas out of my heart. I am not of the world so why do I care what the world does Dec 25th or any other day?

We celebrate his resurrection. We celebrate his birth, the promised Savior, made flesh, born to a virgin. His humble birth to the day he returns as Lord of Lords and King of Kings! Celebrate it all! Enjoy Christmas!

Merry Christmas!:thumb

[BarbT]

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Sounds like the prophets anticipated and CELEBRATED the event we happen to call Christmas! :thumb

[7Rock]

Like some said in another thread,

"Just because toilet paper is not mentioned in the Bible, does not mean it`s wrong to use it today".:spit

[Jany]

I was listening to the song "Mary, did you know" on the way to work today. The words absorbed me.

Amen, Vicki! Love that song! Here are the words:

Mary did you know,
That your baby boy, will one day walk on water?
Did you know,
That your baby boy will save our sons and daughters?
Did you know,
That your baby boy has come to make you new?
This child that you've delivered,
Will soon deliver you.

Mary did you know,
That your baby boy will give sight to a blind man?
Did you know,
That your baby boy will calm the storm with his hand?
Did you know,
That your baby boy has walked where angels trod?
And when you kiss your little baby,
You've kissed the face of God.

Oh, Mary did you know?
The blind will see,
The deaf will hear,
The dead will live again,
The lame will leap,
The dumb will speak,
The praises of the Lamb.

Mary did you know,
That your baby boy is Lord of all creation?
Did you know,
That your baby boy will one day rule the nations?
Did you know,
That your baby boy is heaven's perfect Lamb?
This sleeping child you're holding,
Is the Great, I Am.

(By Buddy Green and Mark Lowry) <><

[MrMannn]

:popcorn
Just here to enjoy the "I'm a better Christian than you philistine pagans who celebrate Christmas" games. Everytime this year we have anquished arguments that are empty, heartless, and bound to support volumes of legalistic essays.

Leagalism can become an idol. Christmas is a genuine expression of faith, and has been for 2000 years. Falling near the winter solice is a moot point. So is saturn worship. Nobody worships saturn...that's silly.

I rejoice that I am free of the law as a believer. Jesus said, the sabath is for man, not man for the sabath. Just because the stores make money this time of year does not negate the faithfull worship. Nor does it negate the fact that more people go to churches on Christmas-UNSAVED people! Christmas and easter are the most prophitable time for evangelism-and my church makes full use of it.

God turns all things to the good of those who believe-even the winter solice.

By this logic, If my birthday fell on a date some pagan had a holliday on-it would be pagan idol worship for a fellow believer to give me a surprise party. Mr Mannn can't have a birthday! It falls on the "mongolian-styofoam-cup-homage-to-the-diety-of-coffee-day!" Every day is some pagan holliday. I refuse to bow to misguided legalism. If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, than fine, don't. But don't come telling me I'm in sin and worshiping saturn if I choose to celebrate-I'm not!

The real question should be: Is Christmas a salvation issue? No. It really doesn't matter if you celebrate or not. Well, you don't get presents if you are a stick in the mud...But then thats your choice. So seeing that this is NOT a salvation issue: What is all the fuss?

[MrMannn]

Ever wonder where the warmth and wonder of Christmas comes from? It all stems from Jesus. The World saw out Christian celebrations and wanted in. Even secular japan celebrates a familly Christmas.

Christians started this: we give gifts because the Wise Men gave gifts. The warmth and family we have is something the world wants-and more unsaved people comes to church on Chistmas and easter than at any other time of the year. That is a blessing from God-and we must make full use of that.

Christmas is the celebration of the promise come true. Easter is the celebration of the promise fullfilled.

God Bless you all this Christmas.

[Xlcor]

"Nowhere in the New Testament does it mention that we are to celebrate the birth of Jesus"

Isn't this what Luke Chapter Two is all about??:doh

[Vickimac]

Thank you for posting the words {{jany}}

I just thought what it must have been like to hold that baby King and kiss the very face of God. Of course I'm a little sentimental with my 2 week old Grandson at the moment, lots of snuggling and kissing fresh in my heart.:): But for those who knew he was the deliverer, wow, what an amazing circumstance just to see him when he came into the world! The promise of God, fulfilled, the hope of the world!

I love Christmas, the worship of the Promise, the music, the decorations of joy, the family time, all of it is a blessing.:):

[BarbT]

Mr Mannn can't have a birthday! It falls on the "mongolian-styofoam-cup-homage-to-the-diety-of-coffee-day!" LOL! :lol

Mr Mann, your post was positively inspired. :thumb Vickimac, Jany, and Xlcor -- I'm uplifted by your imput too. :):

The legalists come here pointing fingers at "paganism" every year at this time and it gets so old. A Christian fellowship where Jesus birthday is actually belittled is a sad commentary.

It's wonderful to see Christians who *get it*. :nod

[Vickimac]

MERRRRRY CHRISTMAS!!! :kiss

[Hyssop]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
I'm amazed... for 2 weeks now I have been ending most of my posts with "Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas" .... and no one has aked me why!

There may a be couple on here who know... like Ants...

Geeezz... try to be funny and it flies right by everyone.

Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas!

I got it ;):

[adelphos]

Once again thank you all for you're honest and genuine comments. I understand how a subject like the one I've posted may be interpreted as some sort of "judgment" or the standing of someone who consider himself better than his/her brother/sister.
If I have given that kind of impression to some of you then please accept my apologies, however that was not my intention(who am I anyway). Neither was my intention to change anyone's mind. I've been researching this matter for a while, and I just wanted to share with you my impressions and read some of yours, also to increase my knowledge on the subject with you're help. It appears that someone had the impression that I was expressing some JW ideas, I can assure you that I'm not leaning in that direction at all. I've appreciate each of you're opinions very much; each one of you bring something different that add, in different ways, to the general view generated by your generous interventions to this post. Now, if you allow me, I'll proceed with part 2 of my study on the origins of Christmas.
2 - Even though biblical evidence shows that Dec.25(the date of the Roman Brumalia, immediately after Saturnalia)cannot be the right time of Christ's birth, the church adopted it anyway.
To be noted is also that this date marked a great festivity time in Mithraism, the Persian religion of the sun god. Emperor Aurelian of Rome declared in A.D. 274 Dec. 25 to be the birthday of the invincible sun. In the course of time Jesus Christ became indistinguishable from the pagan sun god in the minds of hundreds of thousands of converts throughout the Roman Empire.
A special attention ought to be on the fact that instead of standing as Christ's force for change in the world, Christianity was changed by the pagan world it was suppost to transform.
Over the centuries Christmas then absorbed customs from German, Scandivian and Celtic paganism(such as the yule log, the decorating of evergreen trees -one of my favorite trees by the way- and the hanging of mistletoe).
Christmas observances continued then in the Middle Ages in europe with the excesses of Saturnalia. Following that period some Protestants tried to reform Christmas but instead created little real change. The war waged by the Christian Puritans on Christmas observance as unchristian behavior is well documented.
It's interesting to see that in 1659 the holiday was outlawed in Massachussets, but proved so popular that it went back on in 1681 by popular demand.
In colonial times, Christ's birth was celebrated as a social event(if it was celebrated at all). The Puritans in New England however refused to observe the holiday.
In our modern times Christmas obviously has become more about the commercialization of the day that is suppost to celebrate the birth of the Son of God. Incessant TV and radio commercials, parades featuring Santa Claus sponsored by department stores and half-price sales becoming more and more the center of the attention than the worshiping of God.
We all know that Christmas has become such central holiday of the american culture that it's difficult to get anyone to step back just for a minute and evaluate if there's some Christian validity or not.
The facts are that Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25; Christ's apostles rejected pagan cerimonies and rituals in their worship and communicate other christians to avoid them as well. The choice of Dec. 25 as Christ's supposed date of birth was based on the dates of the Roman Saturnalia and Brumalia(and in afferming this I'm not saying in anyway that the christians today are celebrating Saturn). Customs like decorating the tree, the use of mistletoe, exchanging of gifts, Santa Claus(I'll write more on him in another post)obviously come not from the Bible but from ancient pagan religions. In our modern times this holiday is really more about convincing children to harass their parents for toys than worshipping Jesus.
Now, as I've read from some of you're comments, what does all of this matter as long it brings people to Christ(good question)? Let's see what are Paul's instructions to Christians in the well known pagan Corinth in II Corinthians 6: 14-17: "Be ye not unequally yoked togheter with unbelievers: for what felllowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing: and I will receive you."
I hope that the quotation of this verses is not gonna be interpreted in the wrong way(remember..I'm not casting any judgment). And I'm well aware that some of you are gonna counter-quote many other beautiful verses wich i'm ready to absorbe.
I'm just wondering if it's right honoring God with pagan customs and traditions that He forbids in His Word.
The question at this point is: How can we put Jesus back into the season?
End of part 2.
Now hit me hard...(just kidding


;): )

[adelphos]

Originally posted by BarbT
LOL! :lol

Mr Mann, your post was positively inspired. :thumb Vickimac, Jany, and Xlcor -- I'm uplifted by your imput too. :):

The legalists come here pointing fingers at "paganism" every year at this time and it gets so old. A Christian fellowship where Jesus birthday is actually belittled is a sad commentary.

It's wonderful to see Christians who *get it*. :nod
It makes me sad to see that you've interpreted my opinions as a legalistic fingers pointing view. And in anyway was I diminuishing the tremendous importance of Jesus birthday, I could never do that...forgive me if I've giving you that impression.

[adelphos]

Originally posted by MrMannn
:popcorn
Just here to enjoy the "I'm a better Christian than you philistine pagans who celebrate Christmas" games. Everytime this year we have anquished arguments that are empty, heartless, and bound to support volumes of legalistic essays.

Leagalism can become an idol. Christmas is a genuine expression of faith, and has been for 2000 years. Falling near the winter solice is a moot point. So is saturn worship. Nobody worships saturn...that's silly.

I rejoice that I am free of the law as a believer. Jesus said, the sabath is for man, not man for the sabath. Just because the stores make money this time of year does not negate the faithfull worship. Nor does it negate the fact that more people go to churches on Christmas-UNSAVED people! Christmas and easter are the most prophitable time for evangelism-and my church makes full use of it.

God turns all things to the good of those who believe-even the winter solice.

By this logic, If my birthday fell on a date some pagan had a holliday on-it would be pagan idol worship for a fellow believer to give me a surprise party. Mr Mannn can't have a birthday! It falls on the "mongolian-styofoam-cup-homage-to-the-diety-of-coffee-day!" Every day is some pagan holliday. I refuse to bow to misguided legalism. If you don't want to celebrate Christmas, than fine, don't. But don't come telling me I'm in sin and worshiping saturn if I choose to celebrate-I'm not!

The real question should be: Is Christmas a salvation issue? No. It really doesn't matter if you celebrate or not. Well, you don't get presents if you are a stick in the mud...But then thats your choice. So seeing that this is NOT a salvation issue: What is all the fuss?
Not even for a moment have I thought to be a better christian because of my personal point of view on a certain subject. And it's really sad to see you taking my post as an excuse to cast a judgment on my brothers and sisters. However let me apologize if I give you that impression. By the way what am i expressing has nothing to do with legalism and I've never told you that you are in Sin cause you're worship Saturn(of course you're not...who does?).

[adelphos]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
BTW... Easter has pagan roots too. Should we not celebrate Christ's sacrifice on the cross either?

Just about every tradition we have in the church as far as how our services are conducted ... everything from sermons to the communion table... comes from the Roman & Greek pagan culture. Now, if you want to discuss that, I think our time would be better served.

But I find that those who want to make an issue of Christmas hold to many traditions going on in the church which have pagan roots... thats an interesting duplicity to me.
A very interesting duplicity, I agree. In fact we could spend years just analizing all the Roman and Greek pagans costums we're using in our daily life as christians...we could adventure into that too if you wish. Talk more about the pagan roots of Easter please, I'm very interested in the subject.

[adelphos]

Originally posted by Xlcor
"Nowhere in the New Testament does it mention that we are to celebrate the birth of Jesus"

Isn't this what Luke Chapter Two is all about??:doh
Beautiful chapter, surely one of my favorites. And of course there was a great celebration in the hearts of those whom the angel brought the good news and of those who were witnessing the events as they were unfolding at the time. But I still don't see any specific instructions for the church to celebrate Christ's birth.
Jesus was extremely specific on the last supper to do that in His memory, if he wanted his church to commemorate His birth He could have told us as well. However I don't judge the remembering of Jesus birth(nothing wrong with that), I'm just saying that if we're are to use it it should be solely for the purpose of evangelism. The holiday with the pagan costums that during the century have been created and perfected on this important event has nothing to do with it.

[Mrs. Hoppes]

I just want to throw in my own 2 cents about birthday celebrations in the bible.


Many births were celebrated in the bible at the time of the birth itself.


Actual "anniversary birthdays" are only celebrated twice in the Bible. And both times, it ended in someone's death.




However, we do celebrate the birth of our Saviour and Lord on December 25.

We also celebrate Ressurection Day.

[cayte]

Why do some Christians "celebrate" Christmas and nowhere in the NT does it say for Christians to "celebrate" Christ's birth, however Christians are told to remember Him at the last supper.

Saint Patrick went to Ireland to convert pagans to know the Christian faith. Yes it was Catholic, but at least catholicism brought some awareness of Christ to the pagans there. Saint Patrick took a three leaf clover that grew all over the ground there to explain how God can be three in one. The clover was there, people saw it every day, and Patrick tried to use that fact to bring details about christianity to the people.

Christmas is celebrated on the 25th for the same reason, really. The 25th being near the longest night of the year, shortly before new year and generally celebrated with lights and parties, probably to bring some joy or hope to agricultural folk... the church utilized that day to bring christianity to the people they were trying to convert. See, you can celebrate Saturn, why not Jesus... type of thing. We Christians aren't so different from you, we celebrate such things too... that opened the door to spreading christianity and evangelizing the people which is what Christians were commanded to do at Jesus' ascension.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do". In this instance, when in pagan land, trying to spread christianity, christianize a tradition they hold and perhaps win some pagans to your side in time. It has worked until now, so it wasn't a bad thing. We should remember Christ, He told us to remember Him and I don't think He meant just His death, but everything He taught, everything He was and everything He is, and most importantly, how and why He came to earth in the first place. It is important to remember Jesus had a humble birth, grew up in poverty, and endured hardships like the rest of us. We are to be humble like Him, how more so than humble enough to be the King of Kings, but born in a barn and placed in a feeding trough for animals to rest one's head, and born to engaged ("betrothed") parents. Son and step-son if you will to unwed parents. Maybe that is one reason why there was "no room" in the inn? Just something to think about.

Why did He come so humbly? To be an example of humility. Why is that important? God does not care for the proud, but God wanted to save us from our sinful pride and arrogance. The only way He could do that was to send His only, completely pure, Son to die in our place...That is why Jesus came humbly and we should remember that.

[BELIEVER71]

HAVE A RAMAHANAKWANZMAS.......:pound

GLENN BECK ! A CLASSIC !!!

BILL-SICK FREAK FROM OHIO:pound

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by BELIEVER71
HAVE A RAMAHANAKWANZMAS.......:pound

GLENN BECK ! A CLASSIC !!!

BILL-SICK FREAK FROM OHIO:pound

Ahhh!! A fellow sick-freak!! BELIEVER71 gets it!! Finally!

[KrispyKritter]

adelphos... I'm the last one to come on and encourage people to compromise with the world. I have had several threads going in the past dealing with many customs we use in the church today that have their roots in the pagan cultures. The difference between that, and celebrating Christmas is this... the pagan cultural things that we do in church IMHO detract from the focus and intention of church gatherings that Christ and the apostles set forth. They diminish what it is that the Holy Spirit wants to accomplish.

I dont see that Christmas does that. Yes, commercialism can sneak in and distract us... so can Santa, Rudolf and Frosty. But we dont have to let them. I know many Christians who do not. I know a few who do.

But speaking only for myself... celebrating Christmas isnt really even about Christ's birth. It's celebrating the ultimate gift... the gift of salvation. Celebrating the very fact that God loves each and everyone of us so much that He sent His Son to pay the penalty for our sins. He took a hard drinking, loud mouthed, womanizing, hot tempered Marine about 11 years ago, and saved him and washed him, and forgave him... and tho he is still working on him... he is not what he was. (That would be me.)

Without Him, I would probably be on my 4th wife by now, living inside a bottle of Jack Daniels, and I would probably have a police record. But He saw fit to deliver me from that.

And that, my friend, is what I celebrate on Christmas. And no one can take that away from me.

I have never given a thought to the winter solctice, or Saturn or Mars or Jupiter... couldnt care less, and didnt even think about it until some Christians thought they should inform me about it.

I know you're well meaning, and I know you want to have an open discussion about it... but it seems to me that you're more interested in informing all of us about what you've learned, and not interested in listening to us and our testimony's.

I will celebrate Christmas, and I will spend a little too much on my kids... but ya know what, friend... God spent a whole lot more on me!

Thursday morning... when my 7 yr old opens one of his presents and he finds a Mike Vick jersey in there... when my 9 yr old finds a BB Gun under the tree... when my wife (who I have banned from reading my posts on RR for a few days! ;): ) finds two tickets to the Alabama Farewell Concert... (we have a 7 month old who will be oblivious) ... I'll have a little taste of what God is going to feel when we all get to heaven and see what He has given us! And I bet His smile will be bigger than mine will be on Thursday morning.

Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas!

[Patty T]

Krispy,

You have such a way with words - they make people stop and think - at least they do with me.

I agree the celebration on Thursday will be about the wonderful gift of salvation that came into the world by the brith of our Lord and Savior some 2000 years ago.

I pray you and yours will have a very blessed Christmas.


Patty
:):

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Patty T
Krispy,

You have such a way with words - they make people stop and think - at least they do with me.

I agree the celebration on Thursday will be about the wonderful gift of salvation that came into the world by the brith of our Lord and Savior some 2000 years ago.

I pray you and yours will have a very blessed Christmas.


Patty
:):

And a merry Christmas to you and your's Patty!

BTW, tell your son congrats on the Detroit Lions breaking an NFL record yesterday while playing my boys! (24 consecutive loses on the road!) Go Carolina Panthers! :heh

[KrispyKritter]

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward...

1 Corinthians 10:25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience' sake; 26 for "the earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness." 27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness." 29 "Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks? 31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

[Carolyn]

AMEN!

[Gary]

Wow Krispy, well said!! Amen!!:thumb

[KrispyKritter]

I never dreamed I would become the spokesman for Christmas... I feel like one of those cheesy made-for-TV Christmas movies!

"The Thread That Wanted To Ban Christmas" ... or something along those lines!

Think about this... if Christmas is so pagan, like some would like us to believe... then why is the world trying to change the season to "holiday" instead of Christmas? Why is the world turning so against CHRISTmas? If Christmas was as pagan as some suppose, and something that Christians shouldnt have anything to do with... then why is Satan on an all out assault on it? It would seem to me that he would be excited about it.

I say this without trying to judge our friend adelphos... I truly hope that come Thursday, those who want to argue that Christians should reject Christmas carry their convictions out to their natural end... that would include:

a) rejecting any gifts given to them

b) refraining from any Christmas carols that mentioned "born to us this night", or any other references to Christ being born on Christmas

c) not staying home... GO TO WORK (dont lay around the house all day!)

d) not watching any Christmas specials

e) Not expressing any outrage when the ACLU or some other liberal leftist group wants to ban nativity scenes (remember... your against Christmas all together anyway... so what difference does it make?)

...do you get my point? If someone truly has this conviction that Christmas ought not to be celebrated by Christians... then Thursday should be as normal as any other day.

But make sure you buy gas for your car BEFORE 6pm Wednesday evening...

[adelphos]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
adelphos... I'm the last one to come on and encourage people to compromise with the world. I have had several threads going in the past dealing with many customs we use in the church today that have their roots in the pagan cultures. The difference between that, and celebrating Christmas is this... the pagan cultural things that we do in church IMHO detract from the focus and intention of church gatherings that Christ and the apostles set forth. They diminish what it is that the Holy Spirit wants to accomplish.

I dont see that Christmas does that. Yes, commercialism can sneak in and distract us... so can Santa, Rudolf and Frosty. But we dont have to let them. I know many Christians who do not. I know a few who do.

But speaking only for myself... celebrating Christmas isnt really even about Christ's birth. It's celebrating the ultimate gift... the gift of salvation. Celebrating the very fact that God loves each and everyone of us so much that He sent His Son to pay the penalty for our sins. He took a hard drinking, loud mouthed, womanizing, hot tempered Marine about 11 years ago, and saved him and washed him, and forgave him... and tho he is still working on him... he is not what he was. (That would be me.)

Without Him, I would probably be on my 4th wife by now, living inside a bottle of Jack Daniels, and I would probably have a police record. But He saw fit to deliver me from that.

And that, my friend, is what I celebrate on Christmas. And no one can take that away from me.

I have never given a thought to the winter solctice, or Saturn or Mars or Jupiter... couldnt care less, and didnt even think about it until some Christians thought they should inform me about it.

I know you're well meaning, and I know you want to have an open discussion about it... but it seems to me that you're more interested in informing all of us about what you've learned, and not interested in listening to us and our testimony's.

I will celebrate Christmas, and I will spend a little too much on my kids... but ya know what, friend... God spent a whole lot more on me!

Thursday morning... when my 7 yr old opens one of his presents and he finds a Mike Vick jersey in there... when my 9 yr old finds a BB Gun under the tree... when my wife (who I have banned from reading my posts on RR for a few days! ;): ) finds two tickets to the Alabama Farewell Concert... (we have a 7 month old who will be oblivious) ... I'll have a little taste of what God is going to feel when we all get to heaven and see what He has given us! And I bet His smile will be bigger than mine will be on Thursday morning.

Happy Ramma-Hanna-Kwanz-mas!
I rejoice with you my dear brother on you're wonderful testimony and on how God saved you from what could have become a waisted life in the ways of this world. Praise God!
I am indeed very interested in all you're testimonies and in all you're comments. Some of you already know the pagan costums that since the early church have been associated with the tradition of Christmas, and probably some of you were not too much informed on it, maybe also for a lack of interest in the subject. That's why I've split this concentrate of my study in 3 parts, to allow space in btw for comments and testimonies.

[adelphos]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
I never dreamed I would become the spokesman for Christmas... I feel like one of those cheesy made-for-TV Christmas movies!

"The Thread That Wanted To Ban Christmas" ... or something along those lines!

Think about this... if Christmas is so pagan, like some would like us to believe... then why is the world trying to change the season to "holiday" instead of Christmas? Why is the world turning so against CHRISTmas? If Christmas was as pagan as some suppose, and something that Christians shouldnt have anything to do with... then why is Satan on an all out assault on it? It would seem to me that he would be excited about it.

I say this without trying to judge our friend adelphos... I truly hope that come Thursday, those who want to argue that Christians should reject Christmas carry their convictions out to their natural end... that would include:

a) rejecting any gifts given to them

b) refraining from any Christmas carols that mentioned "born to us this night", or any other references to Christ being born on Christmas

c) not staying home... GO TO WORK (dont lay around the house all day!)

d) not watching any Christmas specials

e) Not expressing any outrage when the ACLU or some other liberal leftist group wants to ban nativity scenes (remember... your against Christmas all together anyway... so what difference does it make?)

...do you get my point? If someone truly has this conviction that Christmas ought not to be celebrated by Christians... then Thursday should be as normal as any other day.

But make sure you buy gas for your car BEFORE 6pm Wednesday evening...
In the eyes of the world Christmas does not have the same meaning it has for Christians. It's just a special time of the year in wich is nice to set apart for a while our bad behavior(nothing wrong with that), to increase the sales of department stores(good for the economy) and to have a quiet family time(always good), with the help of gorgeous decorations that mark the signs of this season.
If you followed what iv'e wrote till now, you'd see that what I'm talking about is not the "real" meaning of Christmas, but instead the "pagan costumes" that many are using whithout even knowing their point of origin. I can assure you that Satan has nothing against these "pagan costums", since he's the source of their inspiration in the first place. What the enemy is against to is the "real" meaning behind this holiday, wich is the First Coming Of Jesus Christ The Saviour on this planet. That is what he really hates. Do you see my point brother? This season can be a powerful tool of evangelism if used in the proper way, I'm convinced of that cause my self I've see many come to Jesus during this time. This is what I'm actually trying to say; it's not my intention to remove the "real" Christmas from everyone, neither to diminuishing it's meaning. I'd just like us to be aware of "some" traditions that have nothing to do with wath should be our main goal during this time.

[KrispyKritter]

Well... in that case, bro... I'd have to say we agree.

You should have stated that at that beginning. I think it would have helped some of us understand where you're coming from. :thumb

[pilgrimian]

I'm afraid the whole deal with Christmas is simply overrated and odd. There is no biblical basis for the day...and every day we ought to give thanks for the birth of our Savior. So what's the big deal?

The reason people want to say "holidays" is simply because "Christ" is in Christmas. The fact that "Christ" is in Christmas doesn't make it any more mandatory or worthy of celebration against any other day.

I enjoy Christmas, though I will not be celebrating it as I used to. I'm going to begin celebrating Hanukkah, but with Christ at its center. Even Christ celebrated Hanukkah:

John 10:

22Then came the Feast of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23and Jesus was in the temple area walking in Solomon's Colonnade. 24The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly."

I'll still celebrate what Christmas is...but not necessarily on the 25th. Christ is the center candle of the menorah...did you all know that???

http://home.comcast.net/~egg-and-dart-art/seven-fold-spirit_flat2.jpg

I think it's peculiar to both fight for Christmas...or to ban it. Simply celebrate the birth of our Savior, and don't allow Santa to get too much credit...or for other things to taint it (like Kwanza).

Godspeed,
Matthew

[antsinmypants]

matthew,

What are all the attributes on the Chanukkiah?

You only showed the "usual" menorah.

I know I've seen it somewhere, but I cannot locate it right now

[BarbT]

....and every day we ought to give thanks for the birth of our Savior. So what's the big deal? Look at this from a non-believer's viewpoint. God has kept His name, His story, and His plan for mankind intact all this time. At least twice a year the unsaved have access to the reality of Christ in the world. They hear about Him and must face Him again and again. God has provided people a framework in which to view Him. That's a HUGE deal in my book. :):

[Geoff274544]

Just thought I would add this from Hal Lindseys site


"He came to die on a cross of wood;
Yet made the hill on which it stood."
Happy Birthday, Jesus


Happy Birthday to the Prince of Peace, King of the Jews!

:wave

[adelphos]

Originally posted by pilgrimian
I'm afraid the whole deal with Christmas is simply overrated and odd. There is no biblical basis for the day...and every day we ought to give thanks for the birth of our Savior. So what's the big deal?

The reason people want to say "holidays" is simply because "Christ" is in Christmas. The fact that "Christ" is in Christmas doesn't make it any more mandatory or worthy of celebration against any other day.

I enjoy Christmas, though I will not be celebrating it as I used to. I'm going to begin celebrating Hanukkah, but with Christ at its center. Even Christ celebrated Hanukkah:



I'll still celebrate what Christmas is...but not necessarily on the 25th. Christ is the center candle of the menorah...did you all know that???

http://home.comcast.net/~egg-and-dart-art/seven-fold-spirit_flat2.jpg

I think it's peculiar to both fight for Christmas...or to ban it. Simply celebrate the birth of our Savior, and don't allow Santa to get too much credit...or for other things to taint it (like Kwanza).

Godspeed,
Matthew [/B]
I find you're thoughts really inspiring, and I agree 100% my brother. Christ must be absolutely the center of Christmas!

[MrMannn]

Well, I'm celebrating. And I'm giving and getting presents too!

Merry Christmas all you pagan saturn worshipping philistines!

[metroames]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
I never dreamed I would become the spokesman for Christmas... I feel like one of those cheesy made-for-TV Christmas movies!

"The Thread That Wanted To Ban Christmas" ... or something along those lines!

Think about this... if Christmas is so pagan, like some would like us to believe... then why is the world trying to change the season to "holiday" instead of Christmas? Why is the world turning so against CHRISTmas? If Christmas was as pagan as some suppose, and something that Christians shouldnt have anything to do with... then why is Satan on an all out assault on it? It would seem to me that he would be excited about it.

I say this without trying to judge our friend adelphos... I truly hope that come Thursday, those who want to argue that Christians should reject Christmas carry their convictions out to their natural end... that would include:

a) rejecting any gifts given to them

b) refraining from any Christmas carols that mentioned "born to us this night", or any other references to Christ being born on Christmas

c) not staying home... GO TO WORK (dont lay around the house all day!)

d) not watching any Christmas specials

e) Not expressing any outrage when the ACLU or some other liberal leftist group wants to ban nativity scenes (remember... your against Christmas all together anyway... so what difference does it make?)

...do you get my point? If someone truly has this conviction that Christmas ought not to be celebrated by Christians... then Thursday should be as normal as any other day.

But make sure you buy gas for your car BEFORE 6pm Wednesday evening...

Wow, I guess I'm glad that I actually have a job where I work on Christmas and every other holiday. :(: I would hate to be a hipocrite. I do not accept gifts and any money I get from relatives who know we don't celebrate goes in the offereing plate. I don't listen to the radio at this time of the year either, because our Christian station plays the secular Chritmas music along with the Christian! I have no problems with songs that praise our Lord, but the Christian stations need to leave the secular stuff alone. Actually, I do feel like I am stepping on pins and needles around this time of the year as to not offend anyone that I don't celebrate the day whether they are Christian or not.

You see my experience with Christmas has been a bit different from yours. I don't think Christ has ever really been in my Christmas. My supposed Christian parents did the Santa Clause thing and we didn't even go to church until I was seven. After that Christ was only mentioned in our family during our Christmas programs at church. Otherwise, it was all about gifts and stuffing our faces with food. :(: There was one time that my father tried to bring Christ at the center of Christmas soon after he had been baptised. He painted a very large nativity scene for display outside our house during the season with lights and all. Well, after being out less than a week someone came and vandalized it! :mad That was the first and last time Christ was the center of our Christmas.

My memories of Christmas were less than jolly. My mother insisted on a perfectly decorated Christmas tree. My sister and I could not touch it, because we couldn't do it right. :confused She had to cook a ton of food every year even though we all had weight problems. She would send out Christmas cards and pitch a fit if she didn't receive one back from one she sent out. We had to go to my grandparent's house every year where all my aunts and uncles were smoking and drinking and I would be sicker than a dog the next day from overeating and the cigarrette smoke (I am allergic to it). And I hated Santa Claus. As a little child I was scared of him and then when I got old enough to read I found out that he wasn't real. When I told my little sister she started bawling and then told me not to tell mom and dad because she was afraid we weren't going to get as many gifts! :doh Yeah, where is Christ in my Christmas past? :confused

Then I started working in retail in high school. Let me tell you....the vast majority of people out there do NOT have Christ in their Christmas. People get down right rude and pushy at this time of the year. Where is the good will toward men. I just want to cry when I here about the zoo at Walmart when they have some hot item and people are fighting to be first in line to get it. :cry Yep, working in retail down right ruined any glimer of hope for me enjoying Christmas again.

I'm sorry, but my experence has not been good. I guess maybe I was just looking for an excuse not to celebrate because it made me feel so crappy. When I learned of the pagan origins and why we even celebrate the holiday I was appauled! I felt like my eyes were opened and I could see how Satan has this whole nation wrapped around his finger. What I mean is.....how do Christians celebrate Christmas different from non-Christians? All Christians I know have a Christmas tree, wreaths, gifts, lights, traditional food, etc. And most even lie to their kids and play the Santa gig! :tape I'm sorry, but kids only see gifts and learn greed instead of Christ UNLESS you take out all the tradional pagan items and only focus on Christ. I know because I've been there. As a kid I only saw the gifts. I didn't even hear about Christ in my family till I was seven because we didn't even go to church before then! If we are not to be of the world then why are we celebrating Christ using the world's paganism and celebrating right along with the pagans and their holiday?

I still have mixed feelings about my choice though. On the one hand my conscious will not allow me to partake in the day because I know the truth of it....on the other hand our society is so sucked into it that people get turned off or think you area a Jehovah Witness if you say you don't celebrate. I try to stay low key about the whole thing, but it is funny how Satan will finagle his way in. People that rarely talk to you all of the sudden want to know every detail of your life during the holidays...."What are you doing? Where are you going? Nothing? Why?"....and on and on. I end up having to explain that I don't celebrate and then they get turned off and don't even want an explaination of why then. I don't know what to say to people that tell me "Merry Christmas". Usually I just smile, but on the phone it's harder. Adelphos, how do you handle this? I want to be a witness and not turn people off ya know.

I've got to comment on the "Jesus is the reason for the season" I keep seeing. I agree that he SHOULD be the reason for the season....but in my experience for a good portion of the population he isn't even the first reason let alone THE reason for the season. :(: I hope I haven't offended anyone here, but as you can see I haven't had a good experience with this season. I do celebrate Thanksgiving, because our society hasn't butchered it with commercialism and I feel that I can celebrate and be thankful and joyful with a clear conscious that day with Christ at the center. I also celebrate "Ressurection Day". I will not call it Easter though and I believe we should celebrate it on passover instead. Usually the days are pretty close. We do not do the sunrise breakfast or partake in any of the "fertility goods" (easter baskets), just a nice meal with the family after church. I am actually interested in maybe celebrating Hanukkah and other Jewish feasts, because Christ IS the center of them.

Amy

[MrMannn]

:nono Legalism. (Sigh)

[tennismenace]

I guess it's time for me to chime in on my 2 cents concerning this. Like you, I will probably take a few hits from some here, but hey, I could take it, so here goes.

First off, I believe it's a personal issue, thus no man has a right to judge any one else's heart on this "gray matter." See Romans 14. Only God.

Second, has Christianity piggybacked it's beliefs onto this pagan holiday? It sure seems to me that it has. Everyone knows Christ was not born in December. Is that a wise decision? Yes and no.

Third, should Christians partake in such festivities? See one above.

Now to be personal here: I don't partake in all the materialism that takes place because my conscience tells me this is not the best course of action. I try to follow my conscience because I believe God's word and Spirit are ruling their. If someone here labels that "legalism" then they are just as guilty in rendering judgment against me and I don't think God is happy with that either.

In addition, I believe seeds have been planted to the lost because of my testimony regarding this noncompliance on my part regarding gift buying for loved ones. I simply tell them what I believe the real meaning of Christmas means to me and let it go at that. (Many people find it strange I do not shop to drop like themselves.)

Personally, I find it better to give to the disadvantaged and not to one who already has plenty. THAT, I believe, is the real message of the birth of Christ.

One final thought that has always amused me. Since when has a birthday celebration brought gifts to anyone other than the one having the birthday? However, I still believe (personal choice), the best choice, if you feel the need to give gifts, is to give it to the LEAST of my brethren.

Okay folks, have at me. I could take it. Adelphos--I completely understand you. Don't let this thread rob you of your peace and joy in Christ. Merry Christmas to everyone else.
TM

[BusyMom]

Legalism. (Sigh)

MrMannn, that was complete rude. These people are explaining their convictions and they have some really good points. I think you are playing the "better Christian than you" game right back at them!

So rude!


A big :nono right back at you!

[MrMannn]

Oops. That must have been the pagan influences kicking in again.

[tennismenace]

Originally posted by MrMannn
Oops. That must have been the pagan influences kicking in again.

Enough is enough. I stayed silent long enough.

I hate to bust your bubble, but I don't find you funny, Sir!

You would do yourself and your family here a favor by listening to admonition when given. To listen far exceeds to speak.

Unless of course you think you are beyond reproach (practically perfect in every way?). I don't like what you've done here hiding behind that facade of superiority. Now just quit it!

Mary Poppins you are not!

TM

[adelphos]

Just wanted to wish you all a blessed MERRY CHRISTMAS!
I'd like to add some thoughts on the last posts, but right now I'm a little tired, so if you don't mind I'll do it tomorrow. :wave

[MrMannn]

(wow. You know people are serious when they pull Marry Poppins out on you!)

At least its over until the anti-Easter season.

[adelphos]

http://www.christiancartoons.com/kartoons/toons/toon.jpg

[scott h]

I stay out of these threads usually. But there are those believers who do not celebrate the tradition of Christmas. I am one of them too. Typically when I express my concerns, I come under attack, and have even had my salvation questioned simply for not participating in the season.

My largest concern is that we have allowed so many things of the world to creep into our worship in the name of the season. Like you, I regress from fellowship during the season. I have been convicted, and cannot take part in those things that I see as being the traditions of men that are not of God.

I often wondered if Christ himself walked into our place of worship during Christmas, how would he react?

I think of how He treated those in the temple when He entered and smashed the table of the moneychangers.

We spend so much time and energy preparing for the Christmas celebration and place little importance in His own directive to "Do this in memberance of Me".

To those who do celebrate the season. I pray that you do it with reverance and with truth. I hold nothing against you, and ask that you simply recipricate by trying to understand the concerns that bind me to my beliefs.

Love as a brother, Scott H.

[Lilmomma]

Sooooo when was jesus born and why dont we celebrate it on that day?and if there is no documentation well...why isnt there any due to we have documentation on everything else that happened? This has gotten me confused ever since I found out christmas is not jesus birthday

[scott h]

Sooooo when was jesus born and why dont we celebrate it on that day?and if there is no documentation well...why isnt there any due to we have documentation on everything else that happened? This has gotten me confused ever since I found out christmas is not jesus birthday

Sis, I don't know when Christ was born.

I rejoice in knowing that Christ was born, and celebrate His arrival daily. It is His ministry on earth that gives us hope, and His sacrifice that provides His salvation to us.

I have wondered also about documentation. I figure that the culture of the Christs day did not put much importance in birthdays, nor in secular observances. We do know that Jesus, as a Jew, recognized and observed the feasts as God required of Judaism. Outside of those observances, I don't know of any Biblcal holidays that we are told to observe.

Excepting, of course, the Lord supper.