Destruction = Eternal Fire....NOT Annihilation

[Lonewolf7]

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.


Job 21:20
Let his own eyes see his destruction; let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty.

Psalm 30:9
"What gain is there in my destruction, in my going down into the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness?

Isaiah 38:17
……. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you have put all my sins behind your back.

Hosea 13:14
………Where, O grave, [ 13:14 Hebrew [ Sheol ] ] is your destruction? "I will have no compassion,

Matthew 7:13
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Psalm 52:5
Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin: He will snatch you up and tear you from your tent; he will uproot you from the land of the living. Selah

Pay Attention Here!
Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from the LORD out of the heavens.

Deuteronomy 29:23
...... It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in fierce anger.

2 Peter 2:6
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 11:24
But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."


Sodom still to this day waits for the judgement

Annihilation is annihilation.........but torment 'will be' more bearable for some than others.....depending on the degree of your wickedness.


PAY CLOSE ATTENTION HERE
2 Thessalonians 2:3
……. and the man of lawlessness[ 2:3 Some manuscripts sin] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Revelation 19
20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet …..The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 10And the devil, …was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The man "doomed to destruction".....thrown alive into the lake of fire and tormented day and night for ever and ever


Destruction means eternal torment in the lake of fire....not Annihilation


Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
Jude 1:7
...those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.






Edit ----read again.....

2 Peter 2:6
Sodom ....an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah ......They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 11:24
..... it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."
http://duncanlong.com/science-fiction-fantasy-art/christian/img29.jpg

2 Peter 2
4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell,[1] putting them into gloomy dungeons[2] to be held for judgment 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how …….. to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.[3]

Matthew 8:29
"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

Mark 5:7
He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won't torture me!"

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, don't torture me!"



James 5:20
remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

2 Peter 3:16
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

[Lonewolf7]

Hootman

you said


Let me ask you and Lonewolf how you explain why two different words (torment vs punishment) are used if the outcome is exacly the same for ALL unbelievers.


I have tried my best to answer this question of yours with this post.

The outcome is the same....however the degrees of punishment will be based upon the works of that lost soul.

Hence the verse.....Matthew 11:24
But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."


If all of these posts are not enough to convince you.....finally.....then I shall have to stop trying because I am out of scriptures to post......on the subject of hell anyway...:wave

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by Lonewolf7
2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Reading in-context. Checking the original languages to make sure I understand. Check.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Job 21:20
Let his own eyes see his destruction; let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty. H3589
כּיד
kîyd
keed
From a primitive root meaning to strike; a crushing; figuratively calamity: - destruction.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Psalm 30:9
"What gain is there in my destruction, in my going down into the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it proclaim your faithfulness? The KJV has the word 'blood' where your quote has 'destruction'. Psa 30:9 What4100 profit1215 is there in my blood,1818 when I go down3381 to413 the pit?7845 Shall the dust6083 praise3034 thee? shall it declare5046 thy truth?571

H1818
דּם
dâm
dawm
From H1826 (compare H119); blood (as that which when shed causes death) of man or an animal; by analogy the juice of the grape; figuratively (especially in the plural) bloodshed (that is, drops of blood): - blood (-y, -guiltiness, [-thirsty]), + innocent.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Isaiah 38:17
……. In your love you kept me from the pit of destruction; you have put all my sins behind your back. Isa 38:17 Behold,2009 for peace7965 I had great bitterness:4751, 4843 but thou859 hast in love2836 to my soul5315 delivered it from the pit4480, 7845 of corruption:1097 for3588 thou hast cast7993 all3605 my sins2399 behind310 thy back.1460

H1097
בּלי
belîy
bel-ee'
From H1086; properly failure, that is, nothing or destruction; usually (with preposition) without, not yet, because not, as long as, etc.: - corruption, ig[norantly], for lack of, where no . . . is, so that no, none, not, un[awares], without.
[/b]


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Hosea 13:14
………Where, O grave, [ 13:14 Hebrew [ Sheol ] ] is your destruction? "I will have no compassion, Hos 13:14 I will ransom6299 them from the power4480, 3027 of the grave;7585 I will redeem1350 them from death:4480, 4194 O death,4194 I will be165 thy plagues;1698 O grave,7585 I will be165 thy destruction:6987 repentance5164 shall be hid5641 from mine eyes.4480, 5869

H6987
קטב
qôṭeb
ko'-teb
From the same as H6986; extermination: - destruction.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Matthew 7:13
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.Mat 7:13 Enter1525 ye in1223 at the3588 strait4728 gate:4439 for3754 wide4116 is the3588 gate,4439 and2532 broad2149 is the3588 way,3598 that leadeth520 to1519 destruction,684 and2532 many4183 there be1526 which go in1525 thereat:1223, 846

G684
ἀπώλεια
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.[/b]


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Psalm 52:5
Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin: He will snatch you up and tear you from your tent; he will uproot you from the land of the living. SelahPsa 52:5 God410 shall likewise1571 destroy5422 thee forever,5331 he shall take thee away,2846 and pluck thee out5255 of thy dwelling place,4480, 168 and root8327 thee out of the land4480, 776 of the living.2416 Selah.5542

H5422
נתץ
nâthats
naw-thats'
A primitive root; to tear down: - beat down, break down (out), cast down, destroy, overthrow, pull down, throw down.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Pay Attention Here!
Genesis 19:24
Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from the LORD out of the heavens.

Deuteronomy 29:23
...... It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, which the LORD overthrew in fierce anger.

2 Peter 2:6
if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; Burned to Ashes. Check.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. That particular verse is probably the closest thing that Ive seen to 'proof' so far.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Matthew 11:24
But I tell you that it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

Sodom still to this day waits for the judgement

Annihilation is annihilation.........but torment 'will be' more bearable for some than others.....depending on the degree of your wickedness.Huh? Where is the word 'torment' used in this example?


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lonewolf7
[b]PAY CLOSE ATTENTION HERE
2 Thessalonians 2:3
……. and the man of lawlessness[ 2:3 Some manuscripts sin] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
Revelation 19
20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet …..The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Revelation 20
7When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 10And the devil, …was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Satan, Beast and False Prophet. Check.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
The man "doomed to destruction".....thrown alive into the lake of fire and tormented day and night for ever and ever 2Th 2:3 Let no3361 man5100 deceive1818 you5209 by2596 any3367 means:5158 for3754 that day shall not come, except3362 there come2064 a falling away646 first,4412 and2532 that man444 of sin266 be revealed,601 the3588 son5207 of perdition;684

G684
ἀπώλεια
apōleia
ap-o'-li-a
From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Destruction means eternal torment in the lake of fire....not Annihilation That is an assumption. Please see all the various definitions I posted above for alternative meanings.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power
Jude 1:7
...[b]those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. You said it yourself. Everlasting Destruction.

You keep wanting to redifine a variety of words to mean 'Torment' when the original languages dont necessarily support that conclusion.

[Hootmon]

THis is the closest thing that Ive seen to a 'proof' so far. Lets take a closer look...
Jude 1 (NASB)

6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Jud 1:6 And5037 the angels32 which kept5083 not3361 their1438 first estate,746 but235 left620 their own2398 habitation,3613 he hath reserved5083 in everlasting126 chains1199 under5259 darkness2217 unto1519 the judgment2920 of the great3173 day.2250
Jud 1:7 Even as5613 Sodom4670 and2532 Gomorrah,1116 and2532 the3588 cities4172 about4012 them846 in like manner,3664, 5158 giving themselves over to fornication,1608 and2532 going565 after3694 strange2087 flesh,4561 are set forth4295 for an example,1164 suffering5254 the vengeance1349 of eternal166 fire.4442

G1349
δίκη
dikē
dee'-kay
Probably from G1166; right (as self evident), that is, justice (the principle, a decision, or its execution): - judgment, punish, vengeance.

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

G4442
πῦρ
pur
poor
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.I think its clear that the Fire is Eternal.

The word for 'Vengeance' has as its primary meaning 'Judgement' as it applies to the execution of the Judicial Sentence. The actual method of punishment is certainly executed in the Eternal Fire, but the end result (whether the punishment is completed or on-going) isnt specified.

[duckdogger]

I'm confused. I don't know for sure who is arguing what. If a fire is deemed to burn forever, I would presume there was a purpose. If sinful man were to be destroyed in the sense of Sodom and Gomorrah, again I would presume it would be final.

But wouldn't that be supportive of the unsaved view of dead is dead? Maybe a little discomfort and then nothing?

Isn't the destruction in the sense of what is in existence at a particular zenith? Man's pride brings him to destruction but he is not always returned to dust, or his spirit extinguished.

Like I said, I'm confused as to the points you guys are debating.

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by duckdogger
I'm confused. I don't know for sure who is arguing what. If a fire is deemed to burn forever, I would presume there was a purpose. If sinful man were to be destroyed in the sense of Sodom and Gomorrah, again I would presume it would be final.

But wouldn't that be supportive of the unsaved view of dead is dead? Maybe a little discomfort and then nothing?

Isn't the destruction in the sense of what is in existence at a particular zenith? Man's pride brings him to destruction but he is not always returned to dust, or his spirit extinguished.

Like I said, I'm confused as to the points you guys are debating. Scripture does seem to support the idea of Past/Present suffering of the unrighteous dead. The story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is one of the more obvious examples.

My contention is that there isnt any clear Scriptural support for the idea of the unrighteous dead as 'Eternally Tormented'. That is, after the Great White Throne Judgment has occurred.

Only the Devil, Beast, False Prophet and takers of the Mark are specifically named as being 'tormented'. All the others are simply 'punished'. An important distinction that seems to be lost on some...

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by Hootmon


My contention is that there isnt any clear Scriptural support for the idea of the unrighteous dead as 'Eternally Tormented'. That is, after the Great White Throne Judgment has occurred.

Only the Devil, Beast, False Prophet and takers of the Mark are specifically named as being 'tormented'. All the others are simply 'punished'. An important distinction that seems to be lost on some...


John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

Revelation 14
9…… "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

Scripture says that whoever rejects the Son…..HIS wrath remains on that person.
Scripture says that whoever takes the mark….will experience the wrath of God

Both groups…..are lost and under the wrath of God
Deuteronomy 32:22
For a fire has been kindled by my wrath, one that burns to the realm of death [ 32:22 Hebrew [ to Sheol ] ] below......

Why do you think that group B will be the only ones to be tormented in the lake of fire forever…….SINCE both groups are under His wrath…..AND both groups go to the Lake of Fire.?????

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by Hootmon


You keep wanting to redifine a variety of words to mean 'Torment' when the original languages dont necessarily support that conclusion.

Ok.....if the ungodly....unrighteous dead are to be annihilated instead of tormented forever...... please explain these verses.

2 Peter 2:6
Sodom ....an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah ......They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Matthew 11:24
..... it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."


How is annihilation more bearable......you are gone right?

Torment is more bearable forever.....if one person gets it less than the next person.


Bear·a·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bâr-bl)\Bear"a*ble\, a. .
adj.
That can be endured: bearable pain; a bearable schedule. Capable of being borne or endured; tolerable

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Matthew 11:24
..... it will be more bearable for Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

How is annihilation more bearable......you are gone right?

Torment is more bearable forever.....if one person gets it less than the next person. You seem to be ignoring the phrase 'on the day'.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
Bear·a·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bâr-bl)\Bear"a*ble\, a. .
adj.
That can be endured: bearable pain; a bearable schedule. Capable of being borne or endured; tolerable Mat 11:24 But4133 I say3004 unto you,5213 That3754 it shall be2071 more tolerable414 for the land1093 of Sodom,4670 in1722 the day2250 of judgment,2920 than2228 for thee.4671

G414
ἀνεκτότερος
anektoteros
an-ek-tot'-er-os
Comparative of a derivative of G430; more endurable: - more tolerable. :confused

Tolerance doesnt imply any particular duration.

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by Hootmon

:confused

Tolerance doesnt imply any particular duration.


Thanks Hootman...

What about this.......

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

Revelation 14
9…… "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."


Scripture says that whoever rejects the Son…..HIS wrath remains on that person.
Scripture says that whoever takes the mark….will experience the wrath of God


Both groups…..are lost and under the wrath of God


Why do you think that group B will be the only ones to be tormented in the lake of fire forever…….SINCE both groups are under His wrath…..AND both groups go to the Lake of Fire.?????

[Hootmon]

You posted exactly the same thing in another thread to which I have already replied.

[Sojourner]

Lonewolf7, another example along that same thought (comparing unbelievers with the mark, with those without the mark):

Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned (damned-KJV).

2 Thess. 2:11-12
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned (damned-KJV) who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by Sojourner
Mark 16:16
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned (damned-KJV).Mar 16:16 He that believeth4100 and2532 is baptized907 shall be saved;4982 but1161 he that believeth not569 shall be damned.2632

G2632
κατακρίνω
katakrinō
kat-ak-ree'-no
From G2596 and G2919; to judge against, that is, sentence: - condemn, damn.

Originally posted by Sojourner
2 Thess. 2:11-12
And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned (damned-KJV) who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2Th 2:11 And2532 for this cause1223, 5124 God2316 shall send3992 them846 strong delusion,1753, 4106 that they846 should believe4100 a lie:5579
2Th 2:12 That2443 they all3956 might be damned2919 who believed4100 not3361 the3588 truth,225 but235 had pleasure2106 in1722 unrighteousness.93, 1

G2919
κρίνω
krinō
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.
Both uses of the word 'Damned' are defined as a negative 'Judicial Sentence'. The exact punishment isnt specified by that word, however.

[blitzkreig]

Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English:

Damned
DAM'NED, pp.

1. Sentenced to everlasting punishment in a future state; condemned.

2. a. Hateful; detestable; abominable;

[Sojourner]

Posted by Hootman
Both uses of the word 'Damned' are defined as a negative 'Judicial Sentence'. The exact punishment isnt specified by that word, however.
The point I was making was that there was consistency between the two verses. The same "judgment" was pronounced against those unbelievers before the tribulation, and those who received the mark. Both groups are condemned, no differentiation made between the two.

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English:

Damned
DAM'NED, pp.

1. Sentenced to everlasting punishment in a future state; condemned.

2. a. Hateful; detestable; abominable; Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English:

CONDEMNED, pp.

Censures;
pronounced to be wrong, guilty, worthless or forfeited;
adjudged or sentenced to punishment. Better to stick to the Greek, I think.

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by Hootmon
You posted exactly the same thing in another thread to which I have already replied.

Sorry... I used the shotgun because I didn't want you to miss it.

In that thread you asked me...
Please Note that verse also states that they 'shall not see life'. Care to explain that bit for me?

It is kind of like this.....

Ephesians 4:18
..... separated from the life of God.....
2 Peter 2
9..... while continuing their punishment.


You and I covered why punishment continues forever....because the lost are immortal.......so the punishment, however bad it is, goes on forever.

Did that make sense??

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by Sojourner
The point I was making was that there was consistency between the two verses. The same "judgment" was pronounced against those unbelievers before the tribulation, and those who received the mark. Both groups are condemned, no differentiation made between the two. Judgement was pronounced for sure. That is clearly stated in Scripture.

Saying that the SAME sentence will be applied to everyone is an assumption not directly supported in Scripture.

They will ALL be consigned to the Lake of Fire, but only the Devil, Beast, False Prophet and takers of the Mark are described as being 'eternally tormented'.

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by Lonewolf7
It is kind of like this.....

Ephesians 4:18
..... separated from the life of God.....
2 Peter 2
9..... while continuing their punishment.
2 Peter 2:9
then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, This verse obviously applies BEFORE Judgment. Its doesnt address what comes AFTER.


Originally posted by Lonewolf7
You and I covered why punishment continues forever....because the lost are immortal.......so the punishment, however bad it is, goes on forever.

Did that make sense?? It makes sense logically.

I agree the punishment IS eternal. However, Scripture doesnt specify the FORM of the punishment except for The Devil, Beast, False Prophet and takers of the Mark. For them the FORM of the punishment is eternal torment.

[blitzkreig]

Mat 25:31-46
(31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
(34) Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
(35) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
(36) Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(37) Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
(38) When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
(39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[Hootmon]

Mat 25:46 And2532 these3778 shall go away565 into1519 everlasting166 punishment:2851 but1161 the3588 righteous1342 into1519 life2222 eternal.166

G166
αἰώνιος
aiōnios
ahee-o'-nee-os
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

G2851
κόλασις
kolasis
kol'-as-is
From G2849; penal infliction: - punishment, torment.
'Penal Infliction'. In other words, a Judicial Sentence.

Whatever FORM of the 'sentence' takes (torment, annihilation, etc.), it will be everlasting (perpetual) and it will be accomplished in the Lake of Fire.

[Lonewolf7]

Hootman

I am downloading now......please forgive my ignorance but...EXACTLY what the heck is that stuff???? Strongs Dictionary????????:confused

Please tell me what to click on......what is it that you are using within that program....does it have a name??

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Hootmon
'Penal Infliction'. In other words, a Judicial Sentence.

Whatever FORM of the 'sentence' takes (torment, annihilation, etc.), it will be everlasting (perpetual) and it will be accomplished in the Lake of Fire. And the same one apparently as was prepared for the Devil and his angels:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[Hootmon]

THe Strong's is imbedded in the default Scripture (KJV).

Look up the verse, and click the Strong's number to see the definition of that word in the Hebrew or Greek.

You can also click the 'binoculars' button to look up a certain word if you dont know the verse.

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
And the same one apparently as was prepared for the Devil and his angels: True. And for the Devil at least we KNOW for certain what his 'sentence' is. Eternal Torment.

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Hootmon
True. And for the Devil at least we KNOW for certain what his 'sentence' is. Eternal Torment. Actually this verse says "into everlasting fire" not "eternal torment"... now you may well say perhaps they are all just standing around watching the fire and not actually in it :B: :doh but it does say "into"...

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
Actually this verse says "into everlasting fire" not "eternal torment"... now you may well say maybe they are all just standing their watching the fire and not actually in it :B: :doh but it does say "into"... :confused Revelation 20

10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Hootmon
:confused I am quoting and working from mat 25:41. I am not multi-tasking :D:


Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[Hootmon]

The Fire is indeed Everlasting. Otherwise the Devil's Torment couldnt be Eternal in it.

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Hootmon
The Fire is indeed Everlasting. Otherwise the Devil's Torment couldnt be Eternal in it.
And the "goats" are cast into it. Yes?


Mat 25:31-33
(31) When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
(32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
(33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
...
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels


I don't think it is your contention that they climb right back out is it?

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
I don't think it is your contention that they climb right back out is it? No. It isnt.

[Hootmon]

I posted this in another similar thread. I appologize for the 'echo' here, but it is relevant to this thread as well... Where is it ever stated that the Beast and the False Prophet actually receive resurrection bodies? As far as I can tell they are consigned to the Lake of Fire in the flesh and while still alive.

Unless it can be shown that they too received imperishable bodies, the 'indestructable' argument becomes moot.

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Hootmon
I posted this in another similar thread. I appologize for the 'echo' here, but it is relevant to this thread as well...

Where is it ever stated that the Beast and the False Prophet actually receive resurrection bodies? As far as I can tell they are consigned to the Lake of Fire in the flesh and while still alive.

Unless it can be shown that they too received imperishable bodies, the 'indestructable' argument becomes moot. I don't think it is stated. However the Bible is not a compendium of all things with regards to God and Judgment. The Bible clearly states that they will be cast and it is forever... the rest I think we have to use our own reasoning and leave it up to God just exactly how He makes that happen. Of course there is the obvious precedent of God giving imperishable bodies,... but again if He chooses another route so be it...

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
Of course there is the obvious precedent of God giving imperishable bodies,... but again if He chooses another route so be it... That's pretty much the same argument I used in support for the possibility of different outcomes in the Lake of Fire.

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Hootmon
That's pretty much the same argument I used in support for the possibility of different outcomes in the Lake of Fire. The lake of fire has many verses which describes it... and it's occupants... and dozens of commentaries and Biblical historians agree.

You picked a brand new straw-man that is pretty far out there...

Swing and a miss.

Here is how one should fall on their own sword-->I AM WRONG (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1259576#post1259576)

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
The lake of fire has many verses which describes it... and it's occupants... True enough. Ive either cited those verses or posted arguments why they dont disprove my contention.


Originally posted by blitzkreig
and dozens of commentaries and Biblical historians agree. No doubt I could trop out some 'experts' to support my position. That really isnt the point though. What does Scripture SAY? That is the point.


Originally posted by blitzkreig
You picked a brand new straw-man that is pretty far out there...

Swing and a miss.

Here is how one should fall on their own sword-->I AM WRONG (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?postid=1259576#post1259576) Whatever type of 'man' you see, it was built from scripture.

Please tell me specifically where Scripture says Im wrong, or feel free to show me where Scripture specifically states your view is correct, or admit that it isnt specifically stated and say as much. Those are really the only 3 options of we are to have an honest discussion here...

Blitz... You know I hald some of the same beliefs you do and I hope it would be clear that I dont take this discussion lightly... FWIW...

PS... I have no idea what that link means...