Joyce Meyers

[savedandhappy1]

I know we have been there and done that when speaking of her, but today she preach about people and the NEW AGE religion. She stated how it is wrong and for people to believe that anyone who thinks that it is of God is wrong. We can't do anything by our selves, and how without God we can do nothing. She read the scriptures about how some will stand before God and hear depart from me I never knew you.
She told how stupid people are to believe that we ourselves can do anything without God.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[KrispyKritter]

I agree w/her... she is correct. She is speaking the truth. It's a shame that she mixes truth w/error however... and thats what makes her so dangerous.

[BlackMoon]

New age = old lies


nuff said

Joyce Meyers is ok IMHO


BlackMoon

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by BlackMoon
Joyce Meyers is ok IMHO

Based on what? You subscribe to WOF doctrine?

[BlackMoon]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Based on what? You subscribe to WOF doctrine?


No I pretty much started at John 3:16 and went from there...

I have read some of her stuff (battlefield of the mind) I honestly di not find anything wrong with it. I read a lot and the key is to keep the good stuff and ignore the bad. There is only one inerrant book out there, the Bible.

YBIC BlackMoon

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by BlackMoon
I have read some of her stuff (battlefield of the mind) I honestly di not find anything wrong with it. I read a lot and the key is to keep the good stuff and ignore the bad.

That sounds nice in theory... too bad the Bible disagrees with that theory. A little leaven ruins the whole loaf, right?

Perhaps you should research Joyce and find out what she actually believes. I suspect you havent.

[lighthouse]

joyce is a motivational speaker- not a minister

[Ynott]

Not exactly. She claims to be a church for tax purposes.

[savedandhappy1]

You know you all say to check her out, and I have went to the sites you gave. The problem with that is I need sites to check them out also. It would not be fair to just believe them because they say it is so. No more then if I believed what she said without checking it out with the bible. I watch her every day and so far, let me say again SO FAR, she has not said anything that isn't scriptural.
I know you all believe you know these facts to be right, and I respect you all for that. I also respect your stand because we do have to warn others of false teachers. BUT, there is always a but:pound I have not heard her say anything yet.
I also read on another thread that the picture being past around of her house is not her house, and the person says she knows this because she has seen her house. So hear again what do I believe?
The vote is still out. I do thank you all tho for your concern, and as long as things are kept christian, I will never mind talking and sharing with you.


Love in Christ,
Kathy:angel

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Ynott
Not exactly. She claims to be a church for tax purposes. Come to think of it... I'm a church too!!!:rolleyes

[Ynott]

Hey, Blitz! The check is in the mail. :pound

[onsolidrock]

Hey, Blitz! The check is in the mail.

You will recieve ten fold in return.

Blitz Have you started building your four million dollar house yet?

[KrispyKritter]

If Joyce is not a minister... why does she contend so fervently that she can be one? She is constantly defending herself against those who would say that she cant be a minister according to what Paul wrote. If she saw herself as a motivational speaker, she wouldnt feel the need to defend herself as being a minister. Right?

[lighthouse]

I AM SAYING THAT SHE IS A MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER.

I NEVER SAID SHE SAID IT

SHE IS NOT A MINISTER- SHE DOES NOT PREACH THE GOSPEL
SHE IS A WALKING SELF HELP BOOK

SHEEESH

[Ynott]

(Ynott sitting by her mailbox)









(and sitting)










(and sitting)











(and sitting)













Aw heck....maybe I should get up and actually DO something for the Lord.



Ya think?








.....maybe even get a paying job?






nah......










(sitting by the mailbox again)

[savedandhappy1]

No one commented on the statement I made about someone saying the picture that is said to be JM's house isn't her house, because this person has seen her house. Don't know if this is true or not.
Has anyone on here seen her house in person, I don't mean a picture that is said to be her house?
I also mention that alot of the things that is credited to her, as things she has said were back in 1991. Doing the math that would make them 12 yrs. old. So if she has repented of these things, and changed her ways I believe the Bible says the Lord will forgive us of them.
Is there any teacher/preacher that hasn't maybe misunderstood the bible, and maybe didn't give the true meaning of a scripture? I doubt that there is any one who can say they know, and understand the entire bible. We may be surprised when we get to heaven, and thought we knew so much just to find out we were wrong also.:eek

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Ynott]

S&H, truly I say this to you in love.

You will not believe anything negative about Joyce Meyers. You cannot. You will not. Knowing that, why should anyone respond to your query?

Countless threads have been generated to show you the truth about JM, but you ignore them, refusing to believe them.

That is of course your choice.

But if you really want to know (I'm not at all sure that you do) about JM, then please do this research yourself. Stop looking to this board to rehash it for you. We can lead a horse to water, but we cannot make it drink.

Until YOU start looking, you will never know the truth.

Perhaps a trip to her compound will set your mind at ease. You can send us pictures and let us all know what you, yourself have found out.

[stacee333]

DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT HER TEACHING ABOUT

JESUS HAVING TO GO TO HELL AND DIE IN HIS SPIRIT AND BE REBORN IN HELL? I FOUND THIS ONLINE AND I THEN REMBERED HER TEACHING THIS ONE DAY IN THE SUMMER, MAYBEE LAST YEAR I THINK.

I DIDNT GET TO HEAR THE WHOLE SERMON, BUT I REMEMBER THAT I WAS DISTURBED BY IT. AND HAD A SICK FEELING ABOUT JESUS BEING TORMENTED FOR 3 DAYS IN HELL.

WHAT A LIE, GODS SPIRIT CAN NEVER DIE. IT WOULD MAKE HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS NOT ENOUGH TO PAY FOR OUR SINS.

HIS BLOOD PAYED FOR OUR SINS , NOT HIS SPIRIT

[savedandhappy1]

Ynott, I have looked at the links you all gave me. I have ask for places to check those sites out, because I don't believe everything I read. Just like I am trying to find the truth about her.
I was told that I didn't want to know the truth, because I ask that question. Please explain to me how asking if anyone has seen her house in person, and not by a picture on a site that no one will tell me how to check the site out to be sure of it is believing any and everything by JM, that is good only.:frusty
I don't know why I am just to believe you all because you all say it is so. You wouldn't believe me if I said it. I also pointed out that the things she is recorded as saying were from 12yrs ago. I would hate to count the times I have had to ask for forgiveness in those 12yrs, because of things I have said or done. So if you all knew what they were I take it you would all still be holding them against me.
Boy am I glad the Lord is forgiving!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You tell me I should stay away from her teaching, but I have not heard anything unscriptural, yet. I am seeking the truth, but some of you are just judging me, and you don't even know me.
So Ynott was that last statement to tell you have been to her house, and the picture is true? I don't see that that is a wrong question, unless you just believe everything you read on the internet. If so there is a site that tell how Jesus came in 70A.D. you should read:pound

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Paulallen]

She helped me renew my commitment to christ when i was lost in the world

she will receive a crown someday

and I for one will not judge her. (period)

[savedandhappy1]

There are several thread running around that I think are getting real close to the type of judging that we are not to do. I wonder if Jesus was here if He would be writing in the dirt, and then asking women where are your accussers when he got done.
I wish there was some way to discuss these things without it becoming personnel. I don't think any of my questions are bad or stupid, but I will not take a vote on this, because it appears I could lose.:pound
We are to search out the truth, but when you try to do it, well never mind.
I will just continue to pray about the TV teacher/preachers I watch, and study the bible. I will leave it to the GOOD LORD to tell me if there is something wrong. I guess maybe that is what the Lord was trying to tell me to do anywhy since I was mostly bashed for asking questions.
I was doing that already, but thought since there was fellow brother and sisters in Christ that maybe knew something I didn't I should check it out. Maybe the Lord is just telling me to rely on Him alone, and He will let me know.


Love in Christ,
Kathy:angel

[SapphireGrl]

Originally posted by Paulallen
She helped me renew my commitment to christ when i was lost in the world

she will receive a crown someday

and I for one will not judge her. (period)
You don't have to judge her. Just judge her teachings. I'm sure Joyce has helped renew many people's commitment to Christ, along with Benny Hinn, Robert Tilton, Reinhard Bonnke, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, etc. That doesn't make them great, it doesn't make them right, and it doesn't mean they will receive a crown if they continue to mix false teachings into the gospel and preach things that simply cannot be found within the scriptures.

[Ynott]

S&H I tire of your rhetoric. You don't want to know.

Why don't you tell us what you would accept as "evidence".

That sort of puts the shoe on the other foot, doesn't it?

I've seen your type before. You aren't really serious and it shows.

Newspapers aren't "real".

Actual quotes aren't "real."

Photos aren't "real".

Tax records aren't "real".

Check out a site with a site? Why should the second site be any more "real". If you don't like what they say, they aren't "real".

:rolleyes

So, what is "real" to you today?

Seriously, you should just up and go for a visit. Nothing else will convince you.

[Teresa]

Well I certainly agree with SapphireGirl and Ynott. I was brought back to the Lord by Benny Hinn. I loved him and thought him to be teaching me the truth, UNTIL I read the overwhelming evidence of his false teachings. I have written this before that I tried to find sites that support Benny Hinn and would discredit the sites that cried out his heresy. There were none.

What I don't get is why is so hard to admit that the wof crowd is wrong and teaching false doctrine and another Jesus. For the sake of argument that say Joyce doesn't teach a false gospel and twist scripture for her purpose. She still associates with those that do. She does Oral Roberts big meetings, she's been on Benny Hinn and TBN. She is friends with these other preachers and she agrees with them. If she didn't then she would denounce them like we are doing.

I was wof for five years. When I was confronted with truth and I had my blinders removed I walked away. And you know what, I have never been more at peace. It is very freeing to know longer listen to a preacher tell me how to recieve from God. I can just go to his word and learn on my own. I don't have to worry anymore if I have enough faith or have sowed enough seed. I just come to Him now truly like a little child and trust that He will see me through whatever it is that I need.

[savedandhappy1]

Ynott, I don't know what I would need to make it so with me. I just think sometimes we hear or read stuff without true proof. I guess I would call it gossiping, and I don't want to do that. Believe it or not I am not the great big fan you think I am, I just am worried about how sometimes we Christians judge people by what others have said and don't check it out ourselves. I think we all can say we have heard things about people before, Christian or not, and then find out it isn't so. I don't want to be one of those people, again.
Another thing I don't want to do is go by something that happened years ago, when as we all know if we ask forgiveness we are. I don't want to be judged by things that have happened in my past.
I just think that in following the bible about testing others that we don't want to get into the type of judging that the bible tells us not to do. The main point I am trying to make is let us remember that God is all knowing and also a forgiving God. We don't really know her heart, like you don't really know mine.
Yes, I have seen the tax statement on her site, and saw nothing wrong with it. I am not real good at that kind of stuff tho, so if I messed something, I would want to know so as not to be deceived. I was told not to believe the tax statement, well I guess it was an audit, because it was on her site. If someone knows where one is on a site that is not hers I would be happy to look at it.
Again, I just think sometimes we are getting into the type of judging that we are not to do. I would be saying this about anything on here or anyother site. One of the reasons I started watching JM was because I had heard, that her teaching were wrong, and so I wanted to hear this so I could help others that are so sold on her. At this time tho, all I can tell them is I haven't heard anything wrong, but to be careful because others say they have. I tell them to be sure and check the bible with everything any teacher/preacher says. Just do not believe it because they have a title or claim to be following God's leading in their lives, but we are to do that with everyone aren't we?
I will leave this up to the Good Lord to tell me I guess. I will continue to pray for wisdom and knowledge, but until the Holy Spirit tells me something is wrong I will continue to watch several of the teacher/preachers on TV. I need to learn as much as I can to become more and more like my Lord and Saviour, and if it helps me to dig deeper into His word by hearing as much of His word as I can then that is what I will do. Don't worry tho I pray, and read my bible daily. I just don't think it hurt to receive as much daily as we can from the word.

May God Bless You ALL!!!!!!!!

I am sorry you don't think I want to know the truth, but like I pointed out I have found sites that claim proof that the Bible lies, and that Jesus isn't Lord. I don't believe them so I will not just believe a site on the internet. If being causious is not wanting to know the truth, then you are right I don't want to know.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Ynott]

You have said it yourself. You don't know what it would take to convince you.

Well, neither do we at this point.

So you are on your own.

But know this, your fear to "judge" someone is no different than "not judging". You HAVE made a decision by not making a decision.

Look at it this way. There are those (like my own husband) who "haven't made a decision" because they "have no perfect proof" (that fits what "feels right") to them. You are no different. There IS proof, but it flies in the face of your own preconceptions and you choose to hide from it and call it being "non-judgmental"....but it is hardly that. You have judged it and found it lacking. If what you believe then is wrong, you are no different than those who followed the false prophets during Jeremiah's day. You should read what happened to the "common folks" who did this. THEY WERE JUDGED BY GOD AND FOUND WANTING.

You cannot hide behind "no decision". Every decision IS a decision to God.

Please then, re-read the book of Jeremiah and see for yourself what GOD has to say about folks who follow false prophets. It isn't only the prophets who are judged....The people who followed them blindly were too.

EDITED TO ADD: S&H it is YOUR responsibility to ferret out the truth, not ours. IT IS YOUR belief system that is on the line and not ours. If you truly value your relationship with God, it is imperative that YOU be berean and check this out. Waiting for others to prove it to you is a cop out. YOU must know the truth. YOU must discover it for yourself...one way or the other. You can't find it if you don't look. You can't find it if you shut your eyes to everything. Hiding your head in the sand and covering your ears and smiling happily will not make it go away. It is there and you must look at it. You will be held responsible.

[Ynott]

26 'For among My people are found wicked men;
They lie in wait as one who sets snares;
They set a trap;
They catch men.
27 As a cage is full of birds,
So their houses are full of deceit.
Therefore they have become great and grown rich.
28 They have grown fat, they are sleek;
Yes, they surpass the deeds of the wicked;
They do not plead the cause,
The cause of the fatherless;
Yet they prosper,
And the right of the needy they do not defend.
29 Shall I not punish them for these things?' says the Lord.
'Shall I not avenge Myself on such a nation as this?'

30 "An astonishing and horrible thing
Has been committed in the land:
31 The prophets prophesy falsely,
And the priests rule by their own power;
And My people love to have it so.
But what will you do in the end?

Jeremiah 5: 26-31

10 To whom shall I speak and give warning,
That they may hear?
Indeed their ear is uncircumcised,
And they cannot give heed.
Behold, the word of the Lord is a reproach to them;
They have no delight in it.
11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the Lord.
I am weary of holding it in.
"I will pour it out on the children outside,
And on the assembly of young men together;
For even the husband shall be taken with the wife,
The aged with him who is full of days.
12 And their houses shall be turned over to others,
Fields and wives together;
For I will stretch out My hand
Against the inhabitants of the land," says the Lord.
13 "Because from the least of them even to the greatest of them,
Everyone is given to covetousness;
And from the prophet even to the priest,
Everyone deals falsely.
14 They have also healed the hurt of My people slightly,
Saying, 'Peace, peace!'
When there is no peace.
15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed;
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
At the time I punish them,
They shall be cast down," says the Lord.

Jeremiah 6:9-15

The Peril of False Teaching

4 "Moreover you shall say to them, 'Thus says the Lord:

"Will they fall and not rise?
Will one turn away and not return?
5 Why has this people slidden back,
Jerusalem, in a perpetual backsliding?
They hold fast to deceit,
They refuse to return.
6 I listened and heard,
But they do not speak aright.
No man repented of his wickedness,
Saying, 'What have I done?'
Everyone turned to his own course,
As the horse rushes into the battle.

7 "Even the stork in the heavens
Knows her appointed times;
And the turtledove, the swift, and the swallow
Observe the time of their coming.
But My people do not know the judgment of the Lord.

8 "How can you say, 'We are wise,
And the law of the Lord is with us'?
Look, the false pen of the scribe certainly works falsehood.
9 The wise men are ashamed,
They are dismayed and taken.
Behold, they have rejected the word of the Lord;
So what wisdom do they have?
10 Therefore I will give their wives to others,
And their fields to those who will inherit them;
Because from the least even to the greatest
Everyone is given to covetousness;
From the prophet even to the priest
Everyone deals falsely.
11 For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly,
Saying, 'Peace, peace!'
When there is no peace.
12 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination?
No! They were not at all ashamed,
Nor did they know how to blush.
Therefore they shall fall among those who fall;
In the time of their punishment
They shall be cast down," says the Lord.

13 "I will surely consume them," says the Lord.
"No grapes shall be on the vine,
Nor figs on the fig tree,
And the leaf shall fade;
And the things I have given them shall pass away from them."'"

14 "Why do we sit still?
Assemble yourselves,
And let us enter the fortified cities,
And let us be silent there.
For the Lord our God has put us to silence
And given us water of gall to drink,
Because we have sinned against the Lord.

15 "We looked for peace, but no good came;
And for a time of health, and there was trouble!
16 The snorting of His horses was heard from Dan.
The whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of His strong ones;
For they have come and devoured the land and all that is in it,
The city and those who dwell in it."

17 "For behold, I will send serpents among you,
Vipers which cannot be charmed,
And they shall bite you," says the Lord.

Jeremiah 8: 4-17

False Prophets and Empty Oracles

9 My heart within me is broken
Because of the prophets;
All my bones shake.
I am like a drunken man,
And like a man whom wine has overcome,
Because of the Lord,
And because of His holy words.
10 For the land is full of adulterers;
For because of a curse the land mourns.
The pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up.
Their course of life is evil,
And their might is not right.

11 "For both prophet and priest are profane;
Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness," says the Lord.
12 "Therefore their way shall be to them
Like slippery ways;
In the darkness they shall be driven on
And fall in them;
For I will bring disaster on them,
The year of their punishment," says the Lord.
13 "And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria:
They prophesied by Baal
And caused My people Israel to err.
14 Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem:
They commit adultery and walk in lies;
They also strengthen the hands of evildoers,
So that no one turns back from his wickedness.
All of them are like Sodom to Me,
And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

15 "Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts concerning the prophets:

'Behold, I will feed them with wormwood,
And make them drink the water of gall;
For from the prophets of Jerusalem
Profaneness has gone out into all the land.'"

16 Thus says the Lord of hosts:

"Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.
They make you worthless;
They speak a vision of their own heart,
Not from the mouth of the Lord.
17 They continually say to those who despise Me,
'The Lord has said, "You shall have peace"';
And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,
'No evil shall come upon you.'"

18 For who has stood in the counsel of the Lord,
And has perceived and heard His word?
Who has marked His word and heard it?
19 Behold, a whirlwind of the Lord has gone forth in fury--
A violent whirlwind!
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the Lord will not turn back
Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart.
In the latter days you will understand it perfectly.

21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran.
I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in My counsel,
And had caused My people to hear My words,
Then they would have turned them from their evil way
And from the evil of their doings.

23 "Am I a God near at hand," says the Lord,
"And not a God afar off?
24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places,
So I shall not see him?" says the Lord;
"Do I not fill heaven and earth?" says the Lord.

25 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, 'I have dreamed, I have dreamed!' 26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, 27 who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.

28 "The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;
And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.
What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the Lord.
29 "Is not My word like a fire?" says the Lord,
"And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

30 "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," says the Lord, "who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31 Behold, I am against the prophets," says the Lord, "who use their tongues and say, 'He says.' 32 Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the Lord, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the Lord.
33 "So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, 'What is the oracle of the Lord?' you shall then say to them, *'What oracle?' I will even forsake you," says the Lord. 34 "And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who say, 'The oracle of the Lord!' I will even punish that man and his house. 35 Thus every one of you shall say to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, 'What has the Lord answered?' and, 'What has the Lord spoken?' 36 And the oracle of the Lord you shall mention no more. For every man's word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our God. 37 Thus you shall say to the prophet, 'What has the Lord answered you?' and, 'What has the Lord spoken?' 38 But since you say, 'The oracle of the Lord!' therefore thus says the Lord: 'Because you say this word, "The oracle of the Lord!" and I have sent to you, saying, "Do not say, 'The oracle of the Lord!'" 39 therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence. 40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.'"

Jeremiah 23: 9-40

[lighthouse]

PROVERBS

14:
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man;
but the end thereof are the ways of death.



16:
25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man;
but the end thereof are the ways of death.


21:
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes:
but the LORD pondereth the hearts



28:22 He that hasteth to be rich hath an evil eye,
and considereth not that poverty shall come upon him

[lighthouse]

PEOPLE TALK ABOUT DAVID BEING RICH?
WELL THAT WAS A STATE OF SIN

DEUTERONOMY 17:
Instructions concerning a King

14 ¶ When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me; 1 Sam. 8.5

15 thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.


16 But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: 1 Kgs. 10.28 · 2 Chr. 1.16 ; 9.28 forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.


17 Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: 1 Kgs. 11.1-8**** neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold. 1 Kgs. 10.27 · 2 Chr. 1.17 ; 9.27
******
SEE THE ABOVE

[savedandhappy1]

:frusty
Ynott, How darn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know not my heart, God does.
I take it you are also telling me that I am not close enough to the Lord or smart enough to hear the Holy Spirit telling me not watch someone or listen to someone. :doh
Believe it or not the Holy Spirit, and the bible speaks to more people then you, and people other then you can hear His voice.
Yes, I ask for you all to make your case. You show me a picture that you don't even know if it is true, you tell of things that are said in the past, not knowing if she has ask forgiveness for that, but just going on the past.
I guess the thing that maybe bothers me the most is I could take her or leave her. As I said I was only watching to see if the things you all were saying were true or not to help others that were possibly blinded by her. Now tho, I all most feel I should be watching her more closely because she must have something the Lord wants me to hear. If the things and the statements made on here has that effect on me I really feel sorry for those new in the Lord, the babies in Christ.
I have been a Christian for 35 yrs. Yes I have backsliden alittle, and returned to my Lord and Saviour. I was raised in a Christian home and a bible based church all of my 47 yrs.
I find it so sad:cry that brothers and sisters in Christ have to treat each of this way. I can not believe that we can't have discussion without someone insulting, and belittling someone. So excuse me while I go get the sand out of my ears.
Oh, I believe we are to judge, but as my post said we are to judge certain ways, and I was afraid we were getting away from that and judging in the way the bible says not to judge.
The saddest part is I tried to stay calm, and just ask nicely about this stuff, but no, I and others have been bashed and belittled to death. Making us now act like some of you all. (NOT CHRISTIAN)
Before someone says something this is not all pointed at Ynott, but all my brothers and sisters in Christ who think that being rude will get people to want to undertand, and listen to what they have to say.

For those that tried to answer my quessions in a caring and concerned way THANK YOU:thumb I just wish it all could have went that way.

James 4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketj evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who are thou that judgest another?

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Ynott]

I do not know your heart. But I know a false prophet when I see one. I also know what happens to those who follow such a one....whether willingly or blindly.

My concern is for you, but you do not hear it.

I am sorry for that. Jeremiah wasn't loved very much either. If you need a new testament description of those who follow a false prophet, you need to look no further than Revelation.

I do not say this to hurt you. I say this because I care, though you do not believe it.

You think to not be judgmental and yet every action we take is a decision/judgmental. To NOT act is also a decision. That is what you have chosen to do.

What is at stake here is not Joyce Meyers and her vain philosophy. I cannot change Ms. Meyers at all (though prayer is efficacious). But YOU are here S&H. YOU I can talk to and reason with. YOU can hear the truth and decide.

This board is filled with information to edify and encourage. Sometimes, edification is a painful process. You have heard testimony here of many who have come out of this movement, but you have chosen to ignore it, claiming it is unsubstantiated. Well, all I'm saying is that the ship is going down and if you choose to wait for a helicopter, that is your choice. We're offering you a lifeboat and you are rejecting it.

You are right in that I do not know your heart. But that has little to do with this discussion. One can still err with the best of intentions. Even with the best of intentions, you can not claim that you did not know....merely that you did not believe. There is a difference.

I am sorry that this sounds so rough. I apologize most sincerely for that. But I feel that I must be forceful in my explanation of the truth or you will not "hear" what I am saying....what the Lord has shown us again and again in the Bible.

There is no escape for false prophets....or for those who follow them.

S&H, I encourage you to KNOW. Look for yourself. PROVE it one way or another to yourself. Don't rely upon the information here since it will not convince you (either way). You simply cannot sit on the fence with regard to false teaching. Good heart or no. Truly, I care. I am very sorry that this is a hurtful process. If I did not say this to you, I would hate myself later for being a coward and taking the pc way out. This too would be counted against me.

Being a Christian is not always putting on a happy face and saying nice things. I wish it were so, for this is very painful to me as well.

[Ynott]

I would also suggest that since you do not enjoy hearing these responses that you stop opening thread after thread in support of Joyce Meyers.

[savedandhappy1]

Ynott,
I have started 2 threads, not real sure how that is thread after thread. Guess it is just how we understand things.
You know you all say that alot of teacher/preachers are wof, but one of the things you say the wof's believe is that they don't believe in the trinity. How can you explain how I have heard some talk on the trinity, and how they say that those that don't believe in it are wrong?
Last comment on this. I just hope we judge only the way we are told to, and I wish and pray that people here would learn that sometimes being rude just chases people in the opposite direction that we want them to go.

I put some scriptures on another thread I was wanting some input on, but haven't had anyone comment yet. They are Rev. 1:18, and Col. 1:18. I was asking where the scripture is that tell how Jesus got the keys to death and hell, but haven't heard anything yet. I hate it when I know something is there, and can't remember where it is. Drives me crazy sometimes looking and looking, and then when I do find it having trouble believing I didn't remember that. Getting old I guess. I liked it better when I had a photographic memory.:laugh

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Ynott]

At this point, my only comment left to you is that what some people perceive as "rude", others perceive as the gentlest way they can say the truth which is NOT what the other person wants to hear.

When you truly seek answers, you will find them.

[aboundingjoy]

2nd Peter 2:14-20 NLT--Speaking of false teachers

They commit adultery with their eyes, and their lust is never satisfied. They make a game of luring unstable people into sin. They train themselves to be greedy; they are doomed and cursed.15They have wandered off the right road and followed the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved to earn money by doing wrong.16But Balaam was stopped from his mad course when his donkey rebuked him with a human voice.17These people are as useless as dried-up springs of water or as clouds blown away by the wind--promising much and delivering nothing. They are doomed to blackest darkness.18They brag about themselves with empty, foolish boasting. With lustful desire as their bait, they lure back into sin those who have just escaped from such wicked living.19They promise freedom, but they themselves are slaves to sin and corruption. For you are a slave to whatever controls you.20And when people escape from the wicked ways of the world by learning about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and then get tangled up with sin and become its slave again, they are worse off than before.

[aboundingjoy]

savedandhappy1 said:

Oh, I believe we are to judge, but as my post said we are to judge certain ways, and I was afraid we were getting away from that and judging in the way the bible says not to judge.
_____________________________________________________

What is the biblical way to judge, and I ask this in sincerity.

Years ago, while involved in WOF, I was told not to question teachers that the Lord gave me, however, I believe the Bible says the exact opposite.

We are to use discernment when assessing the instruction we receive.

Jesus is our example always--Would He approve of this ministry?

Take this issue to the Lord in prayer, and I say this with a soft heart toward you, because this WOF philosophy was a boulder of a stumbling block for me, and it took me way to long to find the truth.

But if our teachers will not stand up under severe scruntiny, we need new ones. If they stray from the Word of God, we need new ones.

[KrispyKritter]

S&H...

You have said that many of the teachings that we have presented to you as false teachings are from things that she said 12 years ago. While it is a documented fact that these teachings have proceeded from Joyce's lips more recently than that... the fact remains that she taught them, recorded them, and wrote them in books. She has never renounced her belief in these false doctrines, and in fact continues to peddle these tapes from 12 years ago. If she in fact did not still subscribe to these false teachings, she would not continue to sell these teaching materials thru her ministry... unless, of course, she is more concerned about making money.

As far as discussing Joyce by name... everytime Paul talked about false teachers in his Epistles... he named them by name. It's not enough to just tell people those false teachings are out there... the teacher has to be named. That would be like teaching a chemistry class and mentioning that some chemicals can be flammable... but not tell people which ones!

[humbleone]

I just read most of this thread and I'm going to paste in what I posted in a separate, Joyce Meyer (no "s") thread. I'm not a follower of Joyce - I think she is Ok - but not a follower. By that I mean if someone passes on to me something that she wrote or said, I will likely read or listen to it, and use the same discernment I would when taking in something from any other person. But I don't go out of my way to read her books or listen to her tapes. Having said that, and having read this thread, I have to feel that I agree with SavedandHappy in that it really comes across that she was being attacked in some of the posts on here. I understand that some of you were deceived by false teachers and so it's only natural you will want to fight vigorously to save anyone else from that same fate. But I couldn't help but palpate a spirit of almost-hostility and even smugness. That is not cool.

Here is what I had posted on the other Joyce Meyer thread, I think it sums it up nicely:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This sounds awfully close to "gossip" to me.....there is no specific
evidence set forth in this person's diatribe to back up any of this
person's statements...

if this person is concerned about closely following what the Bible says
"line by line, precept by precept", they should read the scriptures in James that say that, with the same mouth we use to bless God, we curse our brothers....which James exhort us shouldn't be.....

i am not sure where this came from, but we all need to be careful that we
dwell on the good, the pure and the lovely, and don't get caught up in other's vindicativeness, which just causes division and strife to run rampant in the body.....even by reading through stuff like this, we become partakers of the spirit in which it is written, and need cleansing.....

as far as agreeing or disagreeing, search out the scriptures like the Bereans did and find out what the scriptures really say about
prosperity, health, deliverance and "sozo", which is total "salvation" of our mind, bodies and emotions... this way, when you hear ANY teacher, including Joyce
Meyer, this person, or any other that comes into your life, the WORD of GOD will rise up in your spirit as a standard, and you will know the truth (or untruth) of what is being said.....you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free....

in the meantime, unless you yourself hear some erroneous statement from
Joyce Meyer herself, you are relying on other people's hearsay and "gossip", which is of course strictly forbidden many times in scriptures (see the Proverbs).....


STUDY THE WORD AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT, BECAUSE IT DOES.....:)

~~~~~~

God Bless,


humbleone

[Christ Rocks On]

I'd like to add my .02 cents in regarding Joyce Meyer. This is a long post, so bear with me.

I recently gave my life back to Christ, after years of backsliding. I had hit an all time low in my life earlier this year, and leaned on the Lord. During these trying times, I started to watch TBN ALL the time, which is something I never did (until then, I'd watch it occasionally). One day, I came across Joyce Meyer's show, and the things she said hit the nail on the head. I've never heard such down to earth preaching in my life. Practically everything she talked about, I could relate to.

I became a fan of hers instantly. In a matter of months, I became a partner in her ministry and started purchasing her books and teaching tapes. I couldn't get enough of her teachings. Not once did I ever see her teach anything that contradicted the Scriptures.

One day a couple of months ago, it was brought to my attention that Joyce Meyer wasn't all that she appeared to be. Some links about her teachings were given to me on another message board, but I skipped over most of the things that were being said about her, because I didn't want to know. I decided to turn a blind eye, I suppose.

Also around this time, she dedicated a whole week of her showing asking people for money because she needed to raise $7 million dollars for new camera equipment. I thought it was tacky of her to do that, but that's my opinion. Later that same week, she appeared on "Praise The Lord" and said, in so many words, that if you receive the Gospel from TBN and don't send them any money (because even though the Gospel's free, it costs money to get it on the air), don't expect to have any breakthroughs in life and don't expect Satan to leave you alone. She actually said those things.

She has also said on her shows in the past that if you don't sow a
seed in her ministry, that God will take the money from you anyway, so you might as well sow it into her ministry, where it will go for something good. On another show a couple of weeks back, she said that if you don't sow a seed in her ministry, that Satan will take your money.

All these things really started to bug me, so I prayed to God and asked Him if I should continue supporting her ministry. Next thing I knew, I started doing research on her and found the links that were given to me a couple of months earlier and found out what she taught, that Christ died and suffered in Hell for our sins. Turns out, a teaching tape she some years back mirrors the same teachings of Kenneth Copeland, even down to the title (From The Cross To The Throne, I think it was called.) She also put a booklet out in '91, "The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make" that preached this heresy about Christ going to Hell and suffering. She was called on this and pulled the tape from her catalogue, but not the booklet, though she did edit it, but kept the part about Jesus going to Hell and suffering for us in there (according to CRI.)

She has been challenged to debate her beliefs on air on a Christian radio station back in '95, but she refused.

To be fair, I called her ministry's toll free number last week and spoke with a representative and confimed that the booklet is still available, and that Joyce does believe that Jesus went to Hell and suffered for our sins. Two days later, I terminated my partnership with her ministry. I want no part of a minstry that is teaching such a dangerous heresy. In all my research on her and the Word Faith Movement, I haven't seen one quote or anything where Joyce repented or retracted this teaching.

Also, the fact that she lives in a $2 million dollar house and her husband drives a $107,000.00 Mercedes Sedan doesn't help my perception of her. Yes, I believe in prosperity, and see nothing wrong with having nice things, but I feel that we're not supposed to be excessive.

In addition to terminating my partnership, I also quit watching TBN, as I had no idea that the majority of the people on there are part of the Word Faith Movement.

To the person who won't read the links about Joyce Meyer, please READ THEM. You will thank yourself later on when you discover the truth about what she teaches. Think about it. Your salvation depends on what you believe and if you believe or support someone who preaches heresy, you will be punished also.

In the future, I also have decided to look into a preacher's teachings more closely before I decided to believe them. I was also a fan of John Hagee's and found out that he teaches that Jewish people do not have to believe in Christ to go to Heaven! These televesion preachers can be pretty lethal, so eveyone, be careful out there.

The CRI is a good source of info on a lot of these television preacher, as well as Apologetics Index.

Sorry for the long post.

Your Sister In Christ

[SapphireGrl]

Originally posted by humbleone
This sounds awfully close to "gossip" to me.....there is no specific evidence set forth in this person's diatribe to back up any of this person's statements...
Just about everything that has been pointed out about Joyce has been backed up by newspaper articles, her tapes that she sells, and her books. As a matter of fact, the last few Joyce Meyers threads were based specifically on her own words found in an article in a St. Louis newspaper. That is not gossip. That is not making it up. That is straight from the horses mouth.

in the meantime, unless you yourself hear some erroneous statement from
Joyce Meyer herself, you are relying on other people's hearsay and "gossip", which is of course strictly forbidden many times in scriptures (see the Proverbs)....
Which is exactly why we try to be sure that we reference the material that we find our information in. And I don't have to hear it. If someone passes on information about a false teaching or statement that Joyce has made, and we are able to find accurate proof that she really did say it, then it is not hearsay or gossip. And the far, far, FAR majority of what has been said in all these many Joyce Meyers threads over the past month are documented statements and teachings. We are not making this stuff up.

[savedandhappy1]

SapphrineGrl and Christ Rocks On:

Thank you for your comments. I have looked at the sites that you all have posted. Well I think I have looked at them all. I am not a partner of JM minietries, and have never given her any money, just prayer. Well I take that back I did just buy the cheapest book of hers I could find at Walmarts so I could read in her own words, as to rightly discern things. I have ask questions on many sites to find out more info on what alot of you are saying, and have been judged for it. I have asked questions about certain scriptures, but haven't receive any answer about them because people have judged me with my head in the sand, and not listening.

May I ask did Jesus not go to hell, after His death? This is a question, in Rev. it tells how he has the keys to hell and the grave, and I think there are other scriptures that say this also. I have always thought that He went to Hell and got them. Is this wrong?That is Rev. 1:17-18.
Another question is about Acts 26:22-23. Having, therefore, obtained help from God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come. 23. That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should show light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Any help on better understanding these scriptures would be appreciated.

humbleone:thumb Thank you for your comments, also. I have tried on several post to ask people to please remain Christian while responding, but have seen, well you have read so I dont' have to say anymore.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[aboundingjoy]

savedandhappy1 wrote:
___________________________________________________
May I ask did Jesus not go to hell, after His death? This is a question, in Rev. it tells how he has the keys to hell and the grave, and I think there are other scriptures that say this also. I have always thought that He went to Hell and got them. Is this wrong?That is Rev. 1:17-18.
___________________________________________________




It is Eph 4:9 that has always been hard for me, because Paul does say that He who ascended also descended. I think this is speaking of coming from heaven to earth--and descending to the
death Christ died for us--

This link has some very good commentaries on that verse, and I have heard this verse used to back up the position that Christ went to hell.

Here's the link:
http://www.studylight.org/desk/?query=eph+4%3A9&section=0&translation=asv&sr=1&l=en&enter=Search

As far as Christ possessing the keys to hell goes, I think the Father gave the whole earth to Jesus as His kingdom, and that would mean Jesus has dominion over hell and Satan. That's just my view, and I am not a scholar.

I certainly do not intend to argue with you or hurt your feelings in any way. Having been misled by wrong teachings--first by being raised Catholic, and then by the Prosperity Message of the 80's, I only want to present another possibility to you.

God bless you and keep you.

[Christ Rocks On]

You're welcome, Saved And Happy. Jesus did go to hell. He said in Matthew 12:40 "As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

But He did not suffer and take on the nature or satan or lose His deity and became the first born again man, as these Word of Faith Teachers claim.

He went to hell to preach. Here's what 1 Peter 3:18-19 says:

"For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water."

If I understand correctly, the spirits in prison were the dead before Christ. They were in Hades, which had two parts, one being for the wicked dead to be tormented, and the other for the righteous (Paradise), who were comforted.

So you see, Christ's work was finished at the CROSS! When He said "It is finished", He meant just that. Saying that the precious blood He spilled for us wasn't enough to atone for our sins is wrong, not to mention insulting to our Lord. Hope this helps.

Don't ever stop questioning what people are teaching, no matter what people say to you! Don't put your salvation on the line with false teaching, always consult the Scriptures.

God bless you in your search for His truth.

Your sister in Christ

[savedandhappy1]

aboundingjoy and Christ Rocks On,

Thank you both for your resonses, and links. I thought the bible said he went to hell, and boy was I worried when I thought all these years, over 40, I was wrong. I do not believe Jesus lost his deity or toke on the nature of satan. Whatever that means. Altho, that brings me to another question. Doesn't Acts 26:22-23, say that he was the first born?


Acts 26:22-23
22. Having, therefore, obtained help from God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23. That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should show light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Am I reading to much into this scripture to say that he was and is the first born again, or are we really believing the same thing, but our wording is different. I sometimes think that that is more the problem, just not really understanding what someone is saying.

[humbleone]

SG,

I did not intend to reply that anyone was making anything up and I apologize sincerely if it came across that way. It's just that some of the posts I've seen, not just this thread but a lot of other threads about Joyce Meyer and others (Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Copeland, etc) started to get pretty hostile-sounding and after I read them, I have felt uneasy and noticed my attitude had become pretty un-Christ-like. It's easy to get caught up in "bashing" people and we are not to do that, not even false teachers and false prophets. What do I mean by "bash"? Making sweeping accusations and judgments with a spirit of discord, which we are not - as Christians - to sow. On the other hand, we SHOULD be pointing out false teachers and the false teachers they promote, absolutely! I just don't like when I see people getting overly critical and hostile in things they say and towards others who question things honestly is all. I don't know SavedandHappy but felt that some of the posts to her were rather condescending and hurtful. Please, let us be careful in how we word and phrase things, and do so in a voice of love, not condemnation towards innocent parties.

Christ Rocks on: I enjoyed your post and thank you for sharing it :)

I am mindful of the things Joyce has said and promoted and so I do view her with a cautious eye. I don't give money to any ministries other than to my own church. I do find it suspect that Joyce would insinuate that Satan is going to "steal their money" anyway so give to her ministry, guilting people, etc. THAT is wrong. It really sickens me to know these things actually happen and worse, people get sucked in. I am sure I myself would have gotten completely sucked in had it not been for the fact that I never have any money! I find it safer, personally, to just read and study the Bible on my own, with my church and with other Christian friends. My church is very small, my friends are very dedicated Christians, and I feel a lot safer that way, lest I become deceived by a "big-name" false teacher and/or prophet. I know I could still be deceived anyway, but it seems less likely to me this way. Just my thoughts.


Peace,


humbleone

[Christine]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
Acts 26:22-23
22. Having, therefore, obtained help from God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
23. That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should show light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Am I reading to much into this scripture to say that he was and is the first born again, or are we really believing the same thing, but our wording is different. This says that he was the first to rise, not the first to be born again. Not a big difference, a HUGE difference. To say that Christ was the first born again man is to say that he was a sinner in need of a savior.

One of the mainstays of WoF -- man's being equal to Jesus, not in submission to him.

:):

[BarbT]

I have tried on several post to ask people to please remain Christian while responding, but have seen, well you have read so I dont' have to say anymore. You have chosen to see "unChristlike responses" from those who are struggling to get through to you, S&H. Frankly, I think your relentless defense of false teachers is much worse than any rudeness you preceive in your brethren's posts. They care enough to tell you the unvarnished truth.

Joyce Meyer has been exposed as the money machine she is. Whoever described her as basically a *motivational speaker* was spot on! :):

[savedandhappy1]

Yes BarbT I suppose you would see it that way. Because anytime someone ask a guestion, then they are defending, I don't know why anyone would think it is just what it is a guestion.

You would think someone could ask guestions, to help better understand and learn, on a christian board, without someone thinking they know what is in your head and in your heart. I guess I guessed wrong.

I have explained somethings on another thread, and am so glad that they have been helping with my goaled of more wisdom and knowledge when it comes to the bible and other things.

How do you call trying to get though to someone by saying their head is in the sand, they don't want to know so I'm not answering, they are blind, they are brainwashed. All this for asking guestions. I am not saying you said all this.

Some of you say you know the bible really well, but until some people on another thread started answering me, I couldn't get anyone to answer my scripture guestions. All I got was called names and insulted.

Not really sure how it is my fault, but I bet it is. Anyhow I want to thank some of you for your kindness, and help with some of my guestions. I hope that as I have other scripture guestions to ask that you will give me your opinions about the way you understand them.

Christine My way of looking at this is that He was dead and then alive. Kind of like being born again physically. Thank you for your response. I guess I didn't word the guestion clearly, sorry for that. My fingers don't always type what I am thinking. Sorry.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[linda]

Hi savedandhappy1....:wave

I use to attend the Life Christian Center (home church to Joyce Meyers) in St. Louis, MO. Pastor Rick Shelton was/is the senior pastor and Ms. Meyers was an associate pastor at that time.

Usually Pastor Shelton preached on Sundays but when he was not available Ms. Meyers would fill in for him and she also usually preached on Wednesdays. Life Christian Center was a very large church....around 3000 members at that time.

Both Pastor Shelton and Ms. Meyers preached the WOF name it/claim it prosperity teaching. Each and every service I attended centered on money.

They claimed if you gave to their church you would receive it back 100 fold. They also taught God was obligated to give you what you asked for. They would tell us to pray in small groups for trips, jobs, money, homes, etc. We were taught to claim it; claim a new home, new job, new whatever, and you would get it. If you didn't, then it had to be YOUR fault, you just didn't have enough faith. People went to the altar, NOT to accept Jesus, but to have Pastor Shelton lay hands on them so they could be healed from their unfaithfulness and be able to claim their riches on earth.

Be very careful of Ms. Meyers; while she does have excellent self-help books...that's all they are...self help books. She does not teach the true gospel.

YSIC,

[savedandhappy1]

linda,

Thank you so much for your response. I wish teacher/preacher wouldn't take something the bible says and blow it out of preportion. If someone gives to get I do not believe that is what it says. It does say that we can't out give God, and that He will bless us (not necessarially with money). If has to come from the heart, and God knows are heart.

Yes, if we are in sick or in need, we are to ask, and believe by faith that he will give the answer we need. It may not be the answer we are expecting tho, but it is the right answer. We do have to have the faith, that the answer is on the way.

I heard a preacher (?) say that because the bible says certain things that we have to demand it from God. I refuse to demand anything for my Lord and Saviour. He owes me nothing, and I owe Him everything.

Again thank you for your response.

Love in Christ,
Kathy:angel

[Christ Rocks On]

Christ Rocks on: I enjoyed your post and thank you for sharing it :)

You're welcome, humbleone. :)



I am mindful of the things Joyce has said and promoted and so I do view her with a cautious eye. I don't give money to any ministries other than to my own church. I do find it suspect that Joyce would insinuate that Satan is going to "steal their money" anyway so give to her ministry, guilting people, etc. THAT is wrong. It really sickens me to know these things actually happen and worse, people get sucked in. I am sure I myself would have gotten completely sucked in had it not been for the fact that I never have any money! I find it safer, personally, to just read and study the Bible on my own, with my church and with other Christian friends. My church is very small, my friends are very dedicated Christians, and I feel a lot safer that way, lest I become deceived by a "big-name" false teacher and/or prophet. I know I could still be deceived anyway, but it seems less likely to me this way. Just my thoughts.

Yup, I certainly did get sucked into Joyce's schtick about why I should be donating to her ministry. I also get upset when I think about how she and other television evangellists use guilt tactics to get people to send them money. Another thing I noticed that Joyce did that really bothered me was how often she would bring up the importance of tithing, or read a quote from the Scriptures about why we should give her money.

I think you're being very smart about giving money to your church instead of some televison ministry. I feel fortunate enough that I haven't been a partner in Joyce's minstry but for a few months, and don't ever plan on sending another dime to any televison minstry.

Saved And Happy, don't let anyone intimidate you when you ask a question, that is your right. I'm sorry to hear that you were getting bashed for this.

[savedandhappy1]

Christ Rocks On,
Thank you so much for your comments. I do appreciate it. I am also so sorry that you were used, by JM. As I have said I do not give to her ministries, I did buy the cheapest book of hers I could find to read things in her own words.

I do believe people are still saved in her meeting, and so it does prove that God can turn everything to good.


Thanks again,
Kathy

[linda]

savedandhappy1,

Here is a perfect example of what I was telling you about. The below is from Joyce Meyers' web site.

"From Todd and Deb:

Dear Joyce,

We sowed seed into your ministry in July believing to get out of debt. We were $24,000 in debt. Within a week we received a return on our seed sown, enough to get out of debt with a $1000 left over.

God is more than enough! We are completely debt free! Hallelujah, praise God!! "

Joyce Meyers Testimonies (http://www.joycemeyer.org/cgi-bin/msoft/msoft.cgi?lang=en&setup_file=showpage.conf&CARTID=CA1jg3qWQK2JoCA5xgQJyM346sCAU5Ljwi0NH2M&directory=en&pagename=testimonies)

[Christ Rocks On]

Yup, there was a similar testimony in Joyce's magazine after I made my first donation, where an unemployed nurse claimed that she became a partner in Joyce's ministry and a few days later, got a job offer as a nurse that would pay her about $20,000.00 a year more than she used to make.

Unbelievable!

[savedandhappy1]

linda,
Yes, I have heard stuff like this from some other teacher/preachers, and I believe God can and will supply if it is his will, and if your heart is right in its giving. NOT GIVING TO GET.
I am sorry to hear she is playing that game also.

I hope you saw my last post to you, about something else I heard another teacher/preacher say.

This is the kind of stuff I have been looking for. I just couldn't get people to understand.

Again I have heard none of this, but am real sorry that you were involved in it for awhile.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Christine]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
Christine My way of looking at this is that He was dead and then alive. Kind of like being born again physically. Thank you for your response. I guess I didn't word the guestion clearly, sorry for that. My fingers don't always type what I am thinking. Sorry. It isn't a poorly worded question at all! That is one of the mainstays of WoF -- that Christ had to be "born again" as the "first born again man". They take scripture WAY out of context to say that, as being raised from the dead and being born again are two completely different things.

Jesus explains this in John 3.

:):

[Teresa]

Originally posted by Christine
It isn't a poorly worded question at all! That is one of the mainstays of WoF -- that Christ had to be "born again" as the "first born again man". They take scripture WAY out of context to say that, as being raised from the dead and being born again are two completely different things.

Jesus explains this in John 3.

:):



Christine is right that is what they teach. I heard it many times but back then it didn't register to me that they meant it wrong. Since studying many of their teaching and seeing the words they wrote has shown me that they really do teach that Jesus had to be born again.

They also teach that He had to die spiritually, fight satan in hell, and that we are little gods.

Do you know that when I first told my mom that the wof teach that we are little gods. She agreed with me. Why? Because for over twenty years she has read the Dake's Bible and has been a follower of Kenneth Copeland. She was saved in a Pentecostal church and is a woman that reads her Bible everyday and thought she was very discerning. After many phone calls of me giving her point by point what wof teach and her going back to her Bible she has finally come to see them for what they are. She has stopped watching them. My dad who is not the most Godly man to say the least always made fun of my mom's T.V. preachers. Now they sit together and watch Charles Stanley and Adrian Rogers and they discuss things from the Bibles point of view. I think my dad might make it after all. :thumb And the other day my mom finally agreed to dump the Dake's Bible and get another on that is not filled with garbage.

This is a huge step in the spirtual well being of my whole family. My sister is even starting to get better. We had a nice talk today on the goodness of our Lord. :):

Sorry if that was to long. I am just very happy and wanted to share with folks that I know will understand where I am coming from.

[savedandhappy1]

Christine,
Thank you for your response. But no I didn't word it right. I am not now or ever have been wof. I saw that scripture, and didn't understand it, so thought I would ask. I didn't know it was something the wof used to support their ways.

Teresa,
I am so glad to hear your sister is doing better, keep praying, and know that myself, and I am sure several others are praying for you, and your family. Thanks again for your responses also.

Love in Christ,
Kathy