Joyce Meyers

[savedandhappy1]

I have seen in the passed, messages about Joyce Meyers, and have not said anything. While watching her today the Lord put on my heart how wrong I was.
I watch Joyce everyday, and am saddened by the messages I have read on here that she is new age. She is not!!!!!!!! I have read how people don't like her because she always has on new, nice cloths.
We should be ashamed. This women is anointed by GOD, and we are jealous because He has blessed her.
If you will listen to her messages, she tell about Jesus being in you, and talking to you. She tells how there is only one way to God, and that is through His son Jesus.
I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point, or at least I hope I have.
Please people there will be alot of false teachers out there in these last days, but let us be careful about who we gossip about. The bible says we will know them by their fruits, and I believe Joyce's ministeries have proven themselves by theirs.
Please christians let us join together in these last days, and worry more about saving souls, then gossiping about someone because they wear nice things. Listen to the messages these people give yourself, before deciding about them, don't take someone elses word for it. Listen and Pray and GOD will guide you in your knowledge as to a person.
The devil likes nothing more then to get us fighting among ourselves or gossiping about other children of His. So lets not let the devil work through us, but let Jesus work his love and salvation through us to win more souls for the final harvest.
I really like this site, but sometimes I worry when we are attacking people that are preaching the word of GOD.
Thank you all for listening, and may GOD bless each and everyone of you.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[MercifullySaved]

Sorry, Kathy, but you need to check out the threads over in Christian Chat about her ministry. I think you'll see how badly mistaken you are.
Her ministry is not of God. She is definitely NOT annointed. As she herself said, she is living in her reward NOW...

[AnotherOldGuy]

The bible says we will know them by their fruits, and I believe Joyce's ministeries have proven themselves by theirs.

You got that right. Did you see the pictures of her house?



The devil likes nothing more then to get us fighting among ourselves or gossiping about other children of His.

Is that what Jesus is doing in Rev. 2-3?



What happened to "For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."?

[Russ]

Joyce Meyers was preaching the health and wealth false gospel on tbn during their praise-a-thon.
I'm so sick and tired of hearing that these people are "annointed" by God. They teach a false gospel and threaten people that come against them because they have this "annointing" by God.:mad

[savedandhappy1]

I listen to her teach everyday, as I said before.
I don't care what her house looks like. I guess if the Lord blessed me with a nice house I wouldn't be saved either?
She preaches the bible. She has said nothing that is not scripture, that I have heard. Have you listen to her yourself? Have you read the scriptures she uses during her teaching. I will not fight about this. I just ask everyone to watch her and listen to her teaching yourself, and let GOD lead you. I don't agree with everything every preacher, teacher says, but that doesn't make them new age or a false teacher. It is just the way they understand the word.


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[carmen]

I won't fight either, but I will ask that you read through this thread and the associated articles (linked in the first post) with an open mind: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118546

[savedandhappy1]

How did she threaten you? The bible has several scriptures that talk about GOD prospering us. To the point that our barns will not be big enough to hold all the blessings. So how is preaching that if we obey GOD, and do HIS will that he will bless us, that blessing could be by wealth, health or whatever I need. How is that wrong?


Love in Christ,
Kathy

[MercifullySaved]

Sorry, Savedandhappy, but I have to come right out and say that there is a difference between the Gospel of Joyce Meyers and the Gospel of the New Testament. Please examine the following...

The cross wasn't enough, Jesus redeemed us in hell

“And you’ve got to really glean some things out of the Word of God to really get hold of what He [Jesus] did for you during those three days. Jesus said, ‘It is finished.’ And He meant the Old Covenant. The job He had to do was just getting started. He really did the job the three days and nights that He was in hell. That’s where the job was done.”

Joyce Meyer (“What Happened from the Cross to The Throne?” audio)
“He was pronounced guilty on the cross but He paid the price in hell.”

Joyce Meyer (“What Happened from the Cross to The Throne?” audio)

“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell”

Joyce Meyer ("The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make", 1991 pg. 3)

Jesus didn't go to hell. Or did he tell the thief next to Him that the thief would be in hell with Jesus that day?
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Jesus was the first born again man

“God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus ... He was resurrected from the dead — the first born-again man”

Joyce Meyer ("The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make", 1991 pg. 36)

uhhhh...I missed where in Scripture she pulled this one out of.


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Above Reproach - testing their spirits

“The Bible can’t even find any way to explain this. Not really. That’s why you’ve got to get it by revelation. There are no words to explain what I’m telling you. I’ve got to just trust God that He’s putting it into your spirit like He put it into mine.”

Joyce Meyer (“What Happened from the Cross to The Throne?” audio)

Meyer says “that the changed lives are proof enough,” that she’s “anointed by God to do what I’m doing.”

Joyce Meyer (Charisma, pg. 55)

But, but, but...what about what Paul says about testing everything? Should we just ignore that and trust you anyway?
Sorry, but every ministry needs to be held accountable to Scriptural standards. Even you, Joyce.


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I'm sinfree!

“I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time ... All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I’m a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?”

Joyce Meyer (“What Happened from the Cross to The Throne?” audio)

“I might as well go and smack Him right in the face if I’m going to go around and feel guilty and condemned. Every time you feel guilty and condemned it’s just like slapping Him in the face and saying, ‘You didn’t do a good job. You didn’t do a complete job. I’m an old rotten this and I’m an old rotten that.”

Joyce Meyer (“What Happened from the Cross to The Throne?” audio)

You're not a sinner? Did you really just say that? :confused


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Angels tell me what to say

"Now spirits don't have bodies, so we can't see them. Okay? There probably is, I believe there is, and I certainly hope there is several angels up here this morning that are preaching with me. I believe that right before I speak some anointed statement to you, that one of them bends over and says in my ear what I'm supposed to say to you."

Joyce Meyer (Witchcraft & Related Spirits (Part 1) - 2 A-27 Audiotape)


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Research Links

http://www.discernment.org/Charismania/joyce.htm
http://www.pfo.org/preacher.htm

[carmen]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
...that blessing COULD be by wealth, health or whatever I need. How is that wrong? (Emphasis mine)

That isn't what they teach, Kathy. What they teach is that it WILL be by wealth, health, and everything you WANT. All you need is enough faith. That is simply not scriptural and is not the gospel preached by Christ.

[Ynott]

Kathy, I hear you. Truly I do. But you have elevated a mere mortal to a higher status than you should.

If you have not read the threads in Christian Chat, I urge you to do so before posting another accolade for this woman.

There is a tendancy to defend people often beyond reason because we have believed them in the past. I am guilty of this myself. In this you are not alone.

What you call gossip, is revelation of the truth....spoken in her own words....demonstrated by pictures posted showing her "compound"....

I'm sorry if this offends you, but you are not alone in that. Her behavior is offensive.

Remember, it isn't Joyce who saves. It is Jesus Christ. He can work through anyone to reach His sheep.

Jesus loves you more than you can know. Be berean and check everyone out.

Both Paul and Barnabas came highly recommended and yet they were checked out by the local synagogue.

Paul wrote many many letters about heretical beliefs infiltrating the early churches. Nothing has changed and slick oil salespeople still abound.

It is incumbent upon you to check everything against scripture.

We are to most carefully observe the brethren who lead us.

Please read over in Christian Chat and think on these things.

God bless.

[Teresa]

http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac17.htm

This is a good article that explains some of what is wrong with the teachings of Joyce Meyers.

I too watched Joyce Meyers, every morning at 9:00am for five years. I did learn a lot of pratical advice from her. Much like I learn when watching Dr. Phil.

The problem with Joyce is her messing up core doctrine and twisting the scriptures to justify her lavish lifestyle. I have no problem with living well. But come on, anyone who saw her houses and how much money that ministry takes in can see that she could be doing much more good than she does. If I were Joyce I would be embarressed by such a display of wealth while asking partners to give more and more.

I showed this to my sister and she too was shocked by how Joyce lived. She does not give that impression at all during her meetings. We thought she lived in a decent home with her daughter next door and a nice married couple that live with them to watch the place while she is gone. We knew that Dave liked to play golf not that he had his owned golf course.

And as to "not touching God's annointed," They all love to spew that one don't they? They should just say " Don't think for yourselves, just do what I say."

[MercifullySaved]

Originally posted by Ynott


There is a tendancy to defend people often beyond reason because we have believed them in the past. I am guilty of this myself. In this you are not alone.



*raises hand*
I'm guilty of it, too. 11 years ago, watching Phil Aguilar's Set Free Ministries on TBN led me to Christ. I defended that guy furiously and blindly, with my eyes shut tight. I came to the realization a couple years ago that he led a cult ministry, and I couldn't believe it. But it was true.
I would no longer defend his ministry, but it did serve the purpose of bringing me to Christ.
If the ministry is that clean, then they wouldn't try to dissuade you from holding them to Scriptural standards of ministry.

[savedandhappy1]

I will check more into what you have all said, but have a doctors appointment right now so it will have to wait.
I also know that a bible theoligian wrote the other day that anyone who takes Revelation as it is written is wrong, and how he can't believe people would think all that stuff will come true like that. So what I am saying is we can't believe everything that someone else says about someone either, but must really on the Holy Spirit to guide us.
I have heard some of her teaching where she says she is not a sinner, and I never heard her say she wasn't a sinner, but that when we are saved we become a new person in Christ. So maybe it is how we understand her that is part of the problem.
As I said I will look more into this, and will pray for the Lord to help me.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[Candi]

I like Joyce Meyers too. :D:

[AnotherOldGuy]

I don't care what her house looks like. I guess if the Lord blessed me with a nice house I wouldn't be saved either?

Please show me scripture where Jesus tells His disciples to fleece the flock and buy a big house.

If Bill Gates told her that he liked her and gave her the house - fine. But that didn't happen.

http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118152

Her "ministries" paid 3.86 MILLION dollars, not including taxes and maintenance, for houses for her family.

We had a missionary speak last night. I can't recall the numbers, but there were many, many more applicants to be missionaries than there was money to send them.

Jesus didn't even have a home, but Joyce can live like a Vanderbilt?

[carmen]

Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy
We had a missionary speak last night. I can't recall the numbers, but there were many, many more applicants to be missionaries than there was money to send them.

Jesus didn't even have a home, but Joyce can live like a Vanderbilt? Well said, AOG :clap

Those sentences tear at my heart.

[KrispyKritter]

What I find really annoying about Joyce Meyer (besides the bilking of money from people who don't know any better) is that she is always preaching against the "spirit of fear". "Dont let the devil come in and cause you to fear" ... "fear not" ... yadda yadda... And then I read the articles from the St. Louis newspaper about the amount of security and armed guards that she has... and that her family lives in a "compound" for their own safety... and the head of security for her HQ lives right there. What duplicity! Hey Joyce... who is living in fear?? I'm not... are you?

I don't have a problem with people being rich if they've earned it. I do quite well at times financially... but I don't do it on the backs of others. I make my earnings from working and business. She could sell one of her cars and support a missionary family for 2 years.

[MarkD]

Ezekiel 34:1-10 comes to mind (NAS).

Then the word of the LORD came to me saying,
"Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Woe, shepherds of Israel who have been feeding themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the flock?
"You eat the fat and clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fat sheep without feeding the flock.
"Those who are sickly you have not strengthened, the diseased you have not healed, the broken you have not bound up, the scattered you have not brought back, nor have you sought for the lost; but with force and with severity you have dominated them.
"They were scattered for lack of a shepherd, and they became food for every beast of the field and were scattered.
"My flock wandered through all the mountains and on every high hill; My flock was scattered over all the surface of the earth, and there was no one to search or seek for them.""'
Therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD:
"As I live," declares the Lord GOD, "surely because My flock has become a prey, My flock has even become food for all the beasts of the field for lack of a shepherd, and My shepherds did not search for My flock, but rather the shepherds fed themselves and did not feed My flock;
therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of the LORD:
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will demand My sheep from them and make them cease from feeding sheep. So the shepherds will not feed themselves anymore, but I will deliver My flock from their mouth, so that they will not be food for them.""'

[RJs here]

Kathy ~ dear one, I was truly where you're at some 3+ years ago.

I defended Joyce to the HILT!!


I could not BELIEVE IT when I came on this board & would actually "get into it" with ppl ~ all over Joyce Meyer!! :argue Those were some mean fights.... {and it was when the board was first created and there weren't even any administrators just yet! :freaked


Anyway, no matter what ppl told me -- I just thought Joyce was like, THE greatest thing since sliced bread. And I defended her vehemently, in every way.

Truth is, I liked her (still like *some* of the things she says) ~ but I certainly don't go OUT OF MY WAY to listen to her anymore.
But, I do know some TRUE Christians who like her.


*BUT* <---- BIG BUT!!! :lol


I cannot elevate her any longer.

One of the reasons I liked her so well was b/c she was a woman *telling it like it is* ~ rather than some man, who didn't know up from down!!


But Girlfriend -- you've GOT to know that some of the things that Joyce spews is NOT in agreement with Scripture!!!!


I'll start w/the BASICS ~ she is a WOMAN. She should NOT be preaching!! {yeah, yeah -- I found ways to defend THAT, too, back then!!} But check out Scripture.

Now, I personally wouldn't have any problem w/her *teaching* seminars & stuff -- to women ONLY. This is just IMO.

Know what? I've heard HER defend being a *woman preacher* by saying, "Well, don't you think GOD KNEW that when He called me?" {audience laughs}

My question is ....... Would God REALLY "call someone" to GO AGAINST HIS WORD???? :confused {I HOPE we all know the answer to that one!!}


Okay -- another thing -- you like to bring up about her *nice things* and her nice clothes. Compare Joyce's (or any other WOF preacher's) COSTLY SUITS to THIS Scripture: 1 Timothy 2:9
in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing,



Girl ~ I could go on & on all day.

A preacher ~ Having their needs met & living comfortably is ONE THING ~ but owning your OWN $10. MILLION corporate jet, your own golf course, etc. etc ~ is quite another!! While BILKING it out of the poor, working class!!! Totally contrary to Scripture!! :nono


Some times I think ~ wow, what a devilish scheme that satan thought up -- ppl get RICH by bilking the POOR out of THEIR money!! :evil :wof


BTW, when I was so *gung ho Joyce*, ~ I wrote a super long letter to her, explaining how she made such a HUGE DIFFERENCE in my life.... and explained some about my background as well... yada, yada... thought, "man!! This letter is going to knock her socks off -- and next thing you know, she'll be calling me personally to thank me!"

~ heh! such pride on my part, eh?


Instead ~ WHAT did I get back from JM ministries? An *offering envelope*!! :sigh :nod ~ where I was invited to write out my prayer request and they'd pray over them (and OH YEAH!! PLEASE SEND MONEY, TOO!!)

I was on her mailing list for at least a couple years -- till I finally wrote & told them to *STOP* ~ GET ME OFF!!!!! They were just OVERWHELMING me -- a magazine every month, and an offering envelope every month, and other sorted "offers" to buy tapes, etc. ~ I mean, almost every single week, something came in the mail from JM Ministries.


Anyway -- just wanted to let ya' know -- that I see your points, and I know where you're coming from. I was wearing your same shoes just a few short years ago. But I will no longer *defend* her anymore.


Now days ~ I MUCH PREFER ministries that give ALL The glory to God rather than having the pastor's name PLASTERED All over the building & tapes, etc. etc!!

The "oh! LOOK what God gave me" attitude!!

~ compare to Jesus, who was buried in a BORROWED tomb!! {when ppl say Jesus was rich -- I'd sure like for them to SHOW ME Scripture that proves it!!} In his physical, earthly life ~ He was poor. He was a carpenter.

Coming back to ADD this edit: I am not proposing we should all be dirt poor *EITHER*!! ~ But!! I do believe we can have our basic needs met (Phil 4:19) ~ if we are not selfish with our $ (back up a few verses BEFORE Phil 4:19 to read....)

What I AM saying is ~ there has got to be a BALANCE there some where -- bet. being dirt poor & filthy rich!! :nod


About Joyce ~ no, it's not considered *judging her* ~ as we are to test all who preach/teach the Word of God, and to examine fruits.

Again, having needs met is one thing.... but, I'll be glad to point out Scriptures that say we are *NOT* to store up riches in this life!! And by doing so -- you can see that Joyce is going against Scripture in: 1. being a *woman preacher* 2. in her expensive custom-made suits and 3. in storing up riches on earth {doing EXACTLY all the *OPPOSITE* that Scripture demands!!}


Anyway -- that's 'bout all I've got to say!! Be glad for the ones who are bold enough to stand up & tell you the truth.

[glorymj]

Well said, RJ. :nod

[Bondservant]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by savedandhappy1
[B]How did she threaten you? The bible has several scriptures that talk about GOD prospering us. To the point that our barns will not be big enough to hold all the blessings. So how is preaching that if we obey GOD, and do HIS will that he will bless us, that blessing could be by wealth, health or whatever I need. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There are multitudes of third world believers who live in mud shacks and are suffering for thier faith, by your "doctrine mentality" are you telling us that these dear saints are "unspiritual, don't have enough faith and are not blessed of God? "....believe me , they ARE blessed of God in that they are not stumbled and laid waste by thier lust for the material wealth that is a cesspool in the WOF movement. Jesus said some will say, " Lord, Lord, did we not do ALL these things in Your name?...and He will say to them, "Depart from me, you knew me not.". And for some who would argue.."Joyce has done such good ...i.e her supporting homeless groups etc. , so what....there a many secular charities that do good works, there are many Mormon groups etc. that do "good" works...that does not make them of God. The WOF movement counts on folks who are not diligent in studying God's Word therefore cannot see through the deception, they all so rely on the "flesh" of thier listeners who are lusting after getting a "blessing" back by donating thier cash. "Give,give, give..and God will give you back 3 fold..." God is not a magic genie....

[JDM2]

One of the sites I like to visit in by Henry Blackaby @ www.henryblackaby.com, his devotionals today deal with blessings, this is what I agree with regarding blessings. Take a look!

PS: I typed the link so it will not automatically take you there.

[Christine]

Can anyone show me in scripture where we are told to get richer and richer off of the monies of the poor? Better yet, can anyone show me in scripture where that activity is God's purpose for "ministers"?

I do not advocate the poverty gospel, I am a "stewardship" person, and in that, I am having a really hard time seeing scriptural justification for that.

Can anyone help?

[JDM2]

I agree, no one is going to find a verse supporting activity to this extend. God wants us to prosper, and certainly blesses our lives in many ways. I think most people just have a hard time separating themselves from the desires of the world, and think that success means material possessions. God knows our needs before we do and will provide for them if we are faithful and obedient to His will!

[almondeyes73]

i like joyce to.

[MercifullySaved]

For those of you who do like Joyce Meyers, how do you react to a statement like this...

Joyce Meyers was quoted as saying:

"If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,'' Meyer told an audience in Detroit in September. "I'm living now in my reward.''

and then what does that say about people in impoverished nations who remain faithful to the Lord, despite never prospering materially? What about missionaries who spend their lives faithfully spreading the Gospel, yet die in utter poverty?
Serious question here.

[RJs here]

originally posted by MercifullySavedand then what does that say about people in impoverished nations who remain faithful to the Lord, despite never propering materially? What about missionaries who spend their lives faithfully spreading the Gospel, yet die in utter poverty?
Serious question here.


I agree, Mercifully ~


Does a person have the GUTS to say ~ along w/this prophet:



Habakkuk 3 ~
A Hymn of Faith
17 Though the fig tree may not blossom,
Nor fruit be on the vines;
Though the labor of the olive may fail,
And the fields yield no food;
Though the flock may be cut off from the fold,
And there be no herd in the stalls--
18 Yet I will rejoice in the LORD,
I will joy in the God of my salvation.


even when he is ding-dong DEAD BROKE!!?


Most ppl tend to blame God for their problems, IMO. {even Christians!!}

It's easy to say, "Lord, I will be faithful as long as you are blessing me...."


Luke 8
13 The seeds that fell on rocky ground are the people who gladly hear the message and accept it. But they don't have deep roots, and they believe only for a little while. As soon as life gets hard, they give up.


But IMHO, indeed the most faithful, who was perhaps also the most impoverished on earth ~ will reap the FAR GREATER REWARD in heaven!! :nod

[zion]

Originally posted by MercifullySaved
Sorry, Kathy, but you need to check out the threads over in Christian Chat about her ministry. I think you'll see how badly mistaken you are.
Her ministry is not of God. She is definitely NOT annointed. As she herself said, she is living in her reward NOW...
:nod :thumb

[aboundingjoy]

RJ,

Hab 3:3 is my favorite scripture right now. I feel the Lord led me to it a few nights ago because I needed comfort. I am going through some health problems.

I love that scripture. It is beautiful poetry.

[BarbT]

....... we can't believe everything that someone else says about someone either No, but we CAN discern false prophets/teachers by virtue of their own words. Joyce Meyer's teachings {quotes directly from her lips} are documented on this thread w/links for further examination. That ain't gossip! ;):

We would all do well to put aside our *feelings* about someone we like when looking into the truth of their ministries. :):

[Teresa]

Well said Barb, I know that I defended and didn't want to hear negative things about the preachers that I believed in. It was when I really looked at what they said out of their own mouths that convinced me that they were teaching a false doctrine. Look at the evidence, it is convincing.

[MercifullySaved]

Originally posted by MercifullySaved
For those of you who do like Joyce Meyers, how do you react to a statement like this...
Joyce Meyers was quoted as saying:

"If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,'' Meyer told an audience in Detroit in September. "I'm living now in my reward.''
and then what does that say about people in impoverished nations who remain faithful to the Lord, despite never prospering materially? What about missionaries who spend their lives faithfully spreading the Gospel, yet die in utter poverty?
Serious question here.

I'm not trying to be rude, demeaning, or to kick sand in anyone's face here, but I'm bumping this question in hopes that one of the people who voiced their support of Joyce Meyers in this thread would give it an honest answer.
:bump

[lookinupval]

I know of two missionaries who were murdered in their own homes in the last 2 months (in Mexico) -- they will receive crowns for their sacrifices!

* A crown of rejoicing for being a soul winner (1 Thess. 2:19-20).
* A crown of life for enduring persecution and trials (James 1:12; Rev. 2:10).

What crowns will Joyce Meyers receive? Or those who follow her? Works that are done in the Lord's name will be rewarded, but works done in order to receive some kind of earthly payment in the form of monetary rewards will not.

[by the way, GREAT POSTS Bereans! You have all done a great job of gently but firmly presenting the truth of the gospel to those who support J.M.]

[KrispyKritter]

Here in Western NC there is a church of about 200 that has a huge worldwide relief ministry, and send out missionaries, and prints Bibles that go out world wide... and they do it on next to nothing. When their missionaries come home on furlow the church has to ask around for people to lend them cars so the missionaries can get around from church to church to raise money so they can go back to the field. I would much rather give my financial resources to that than to help Joyce, Hinn, Tilton or any of the others get rich.

I used to watch Joyce. As a man, I found her no-nonsense in your face approach refreshing. But then as I grew in Biblical and doctrinal knowledge I began to see major cracks in her theology. She is a false teacher first. A false prophet second. A marketer/profiteer of the gospel third. She is of the very same people that Jesus kicked out of the temple. She has helped turn the house of God into a den of thieves.

Her false teachings and beliefs have been extremely well documented. And as I said in another post... she is guilty of the same thing that she demands her followers not do... live in fear. There were many things in those articles about her in the St. Louis newspaper that stuck out to me... but the biggest thing was all the security, armed guards, and the family compound in which she & Dave and her grown children live in. She is living in a defensive posture. I was a Marine, I recognize a defensive posture when I see one. And there is only one reason to assume a defensive posture: You expect someone to try to do you harm. She is living in fear... and the next time I flip thru the channels and I hear her say "Stop living in fear!" I think I'm going to barf!

Joyce said it correctly when she said "I am living my reward."

I would rather live in the mud in Africa and reach lost souls for Christ (which is a goal I have set for my family and I) while making no money at all... and get my reward when I get to heaven. When Joyce checks out of this life... she will be leaving her reward behind. I'll be receiving mine... Praise God.

And it is interesting that not one "Joyce defender" has answered one single question about her.

[Vickimac]

When I first became a Christian, I too felt blessed by the teachings of this woman. And I won't deny that she led me to many truths. I am still grateful for the "biblical teachings" I did hear from her. But every false doctrine is sprinkled with truth, or it would cease to exist. As I started to grow, I started to question some of her statements and teachings. That is a wise thing to do with any human teacher.

All that glitters is not gold and I see too many things in her that are not fruitful. When people give to a ministry like hers, they send what they can to help others. I have no problem with her not living like a pauper, we should care for our ministers, but I do have a problem with her living like a queen.:tsk It is basic Christian doctrine that our rewards lie in heaven, not on earth! Like was already said~ JESUS DID NOT EVEN HAVE A HOME. But Joyce feels God wants her to have her mansion HERE? At the expense of others who live like paupers, who send thier hard earned dollars to help those LESS fortunate? And she uses THAT money for a lavish lifestyle, all the while telling us that it is Gods will? It's all part of the TBN name it and claim it, blab it & grab it, and beg & bilk it doctrine.

I wold hope that you don't get so wrapped up in defending her that you fail to examine her fruits. I don't get into the Joyce-bashing because there is part of me that remains glad for the good things she helped me with in my early walk, but I can no longer defend her because there are too many things that also wreak of apostacy. I can't watch her anymore because of those things. I can't consider her a teacher anymore because of those things. :(: Gods own word has thrown up a red flag.

It's sad. But we are told to test. Look at some of her quotes. Is she humble? She failed.

[Ynott]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
Here in Western NC there is a church of about 200 that has a huge worldwide relief ministry, and send out missionaries, and prints Bibles that go out world wide... and they do it on next to nothing. When their missionaries come home on furlow the church has to ask around for people to lend them cars so the missionaries can get around from church to church to raise money so they can go back to the field. I would much rather give my financial resources to that than to help Joyce, Hinn, Tilton or any of the others get rich.

I used to watch Joyce. As a man, I found her no-nonsense in your face approach refreshing. But then as I grew in Biblical and doctrinal knowledge I began to see major cracks in her theology. She is a false teacher first. A false prophet second. A marketer/profiteer of the gospel third. She is of the very same people that Jesus kicked out of the temple. She has helped turn the house of God into a den of thieves.

Her false teachings and beliefs have been extremely well documented. And as I said in another post... she is guilty of the same thing that she demands her followers not do... live in fear. There were many things in those articles about her in the St. Louis newspaper that stuck out to me... but the biggest thing was all the security, armed guards, and the family compound in which she & Dave and her grown children live in. She is living in a defensive posture. I was a Marine, I recognize a defensive posture when I see one. And there is only one reason to assume a defensive posture: You expect someone to try to do you harm. She is living in fear... and the next time I flip thru the channels and I hear her say "Stop living in fear!" I think I'm going to barf!

Joyce said it correctly when she said "I am living my reward."

I would rather live in the mud in Africa and reach lost souls for Christ (which is a goal I have set for my family and I) while making no money at all... and get my reward when I get to heaven. When Joyce checks out of this life... she will be leaving her reward behind. I'll be receiving mine... Praise God.

And it is interesting that not one "Joyce defender" has answered one single question about her.

Outstanding post, krispy. And it took some guts too. I can appreciate that. You admit to listening in the beginning to her....well, I will admit it as well. I also supported another televangelist with a donation (very large to me at that time). I was new in the faith and so desperate to "connect" with God. They seemed so very sure of themselves and of God. I wanted that for myself.

Everything sounded "so right". It took a couple of years, but then I truly started to study the word. I will admit right here and now that I am no bible scholar! But evidently NEITHER ARE THEY! I began to find errors in their teaching and this bothered me so much.

When I "turned them off", I felt isolated and alone again...and I was for a while. I used that time to truly become acquainted with the God of the Bible. I located excellent commentaries by such theologians as Wiersbe and Walvoord (among others). My eyes were opened.

When next I "turned them on", THEY TURNED ME OFF!

Amazing what a little time spent with the Lord can do.

I urge everyone to open their Bible and truly devour the Word. It is the only way one can know for sure.

You aren't saved by these people, though God can even use a donkey to speak to people who won't listen any other way!

Jesus saves! Place your faith in HIM and not in any man (or woman).

Be berean. And the only way you can do that is to arm yourself with the knowledge the Lord left you.

Please open your Bibles and grow in Christ. He wants that for all of us.

God bless.

[Vickimac]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
And it is interesting that not one "Joyce defender" has answered one single question about her.

Hoping that is because some valid questions are being raised.:): Test the spirits in all things.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Ynott
You aren't saved by these people, though God can even use a donkey to speak to people who won't listen any other way!

Some Bibles call it "The jaw bone of an ass" ... hmmm

[AnotherOldGuy]

True, but I think she literally meant what she said:

(Num 22:28) Then the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?"

(Num 22:29) And Balaam said to the donkey, "Because you have abused me. I wish there were a sword in my hand, for now I would kill you!"

(Num 22:30) So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden, ever since I became yours, to this day? Was I ever disposed to do this to you?" And he said, "No."

(Num 22:31) Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the Angel of the LORD standing in the way with His drawn sword in His hand; and he bowed his head and fell flat on his face.

(Num 22:32) And the Angel of the LORD said to him, "Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out to stand against you, because your way is perverse before Me.

(Num 22:33) "The donkey saw Me and turned aside from Me these three times. If she had not turned aside from Me, surely I would also have killed you by now, and let her live."

(Num 22:34) And Balaam said to the Angel of the LORD, "I have sinned, for I did not know You stood in the way against me. Now therefore, if it displeases You, I will turn back."

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy
True, but I think she literally meant what she said:

(Num 22:28) Then the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?"

(Num 22:29) And Balaam said to the donkey, "Because you have abused me. I wish there were a sword in my hand, for now I would kill you!"

(Num 22:30) So the donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your donkey on which you have ridden, ever since I became yours, to this day? Was I ever disposed to do this to you?" And he said, "No."

(Num 22:31) Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the Angel of the LORD standing in the way with His drawn sword in His hand; and he bowed his head and fell flat on his face.

(Num 22:32) And the Angel of the LORD said to him, "Why have you struck your donkey these three times? Behold, I have come out to stand against you, because your way is perverse before Me.

(Num 22:33) "The donkey saw Me and turned aside from Me these three times. If she had not turned aside from Me, surely I would also have killed you by now, and let her live."

(Num 22:34) And Balaam said to the Angel of the LORD, "I have sinned, for I did not know You stood in the way against me. Now therefore, if it displeases You, I will turn back."

Uh... yea... I knew what she meant. I was trying to find humor in irony. ;):

[almondeyes73]

Originally posted by MercifullySaved

and then what does that say about people in impoverished nations who remain faithful to the Lord, despite never prospering materially? What about missionaries who spend their lives faithfully spreading the Gospel, yet die in utter poverty?
Serious question here. [/B]

I'm not trying to be rude, demeaning, or to kick sand in anyone's face here, but I'm bumping this question in hopes that one of the people who voiced their support of Joyce Meyers in this thread would give it an honest answer.
:bump [/B][/QUOTE]

being the newest member of the Freenati i must tell you that i have to study up on joyce before i give an answer some words out of her own mouth would be nice, on audio not in text. i refuse to believe everything i hear, yes i have listened to joyce for over a year now, so if you have audio of her saying things it would be appreciated.

i don't cut people down based on the fact that they have a nice house and maybe i don't.

thanks for the help!

[Christine]

Originally posted by Vickimac
But every false doctrine is sprinkled with truth, or it would cease to exist. There is an old saying that goes something like this, Satan mixes in just enough truth with his lies to make them palatable.
If you mix a cup of water with a vat of sewage, you still have sewage.
If you mix a cup of sewage with a vat of water -- would YOU drink it? :):

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by almondeyes73
being the newest member of the Freenati i must tell you that i have to study up on joyce before i give an answer some words out of her own mouth would be nice, on audio not in text. i refuse to believe everything i hear, yes i have listened to joyce for over a year now, so if you have audio of her saying things it would be appreciated.

i don't cut people down based on the fact that they have a nice house and maybe i don't.

thanks for the help!

First off... I kinda resent your last statement, implying that people's objections to her are based on jealousy. Can you not see that most folks who send her money cant afford to... yet she profits immensely from it? Thats called "bilking". Instead of using the money she recieves to do good for others, she spends extravagantly ... on herself. It's no secret, and she showed it all off to the St. Louis newspaper and bragged about it.

I havent read anything here that would indicate a single person on this thread is motivated by jealousy. Thats what all the TBN "name it and claim it" crowd say when people challenge them. Will you next tell us not to touch the Lord's "annointed"?

I do pretty well for myself... but the difference between she and I is that I don't "bilk". I earn.

Secondly... you want audio, then try Google or Yahoo. There are sites out there that have what you're looking for. As for the written quotes... all the ones I have seen are well documented, and if you wanted to make the effort, it is possible to confirm them. You could also try reading her books.

With all the evidence out there, I don't understand how someone can bury their head in the sand and go "na na na cant hear you!".

[almondeyes73]

you know what i was not directing that at anyone, sorry if you took offence . just another example of misspeaking words and adds to the tension on the board.

[almondeyes73]

Originally posted by KrispyKritter
First off... I kinda resent your last statement, implying that people's objections to her are based on jealousy. Can you not see that most folks who send her money cant afford to... yet she profits immensely from it? Thats called "bilking". Instead of using the money she recieves to do good for others, she spends extravagantly ... on herself. It's no secret, and she showed it all off to the St. Louis newspaper and bragged about it.

I havent read anything here that would indicate a single person on this thread is motivated by jealousy. Thats what all the TBN "name it and claim it" crowd say when people challenge them. Will you next tell us not to touch the Lord's "annointed"?

I do pretty well for myself... but the difference between she and I is that I don't "bilk". I earn.

Secondly... you want audio, then try Google or Yahoo. There are sites out there that have what you're looking for. As for the written quotes... all the ones I have seen are well documented, and if you wanted to make the effort, it is possible to confirm them. You could also try reading her books.

With all the evidence out there, I don't understand how someone can bury their head in the sand and go "na na na cant hear you!".



i really don't know what you are trying to say here my head is not in the sand i am trying to find the truth and obviously it will be with out any help from you:wave

[almondeyes73]

Meyer also declared on the tape that she no longer is a sinner:

“I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time ... All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I’m a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?”

In it she stated that at age 36, she received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and sometime later felt a flipping and a turning in her stomach. This, she said, led to an understanding of her justification and a deeper revelation of Jesus’ spirit death in hell, where He became sin and was tormented by demons. She also states that when “God yelled down through the universe, ‘That’s enough. Let Him loose,’” Jesus was able to rise. She admits this understanding does not come from the Bible, saying it came from our spirit man. Most likely it came from the likes of Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin.

Meyer further adopted the grammatical subterfuge of used by annihilationists in her exegesis of Luke 23:43:

“And in Luke 23:43, Jesus said unto him, ‘I say unto you today you shall be in paradise with me.’ There’s no punctuation in the original translations of the Bible. We have punctuated it and in this particular Scripture it was punctuated wrong. They put in there: ‘I say unto you comma today you shall be in paradise with me’ making it appear that the minute Jesus died on the cross He went straight to paradise. No, no no. He did not. The way it should read is: ‘I say unto you today comma. I’m telling you today. Today I’m telling you that you are going to be in paradise with me.’ But He didn’t say, ‘You’re going to be there today.’ He said, ‘I’m telling you this today’” (ibid.).


:confused hmm interesting

[MercifullySaved]

Originally posted by almondeyes73
i really don't know what you are trying to say here my head is not in the sand i am trying to find the truth and obviously it will be with out any help from you:wave

almondeyes ~
With all of the evidence that has been laid out on this board over the last week alone, it is mind-blowing - to those of us who have exposed her false teachings/satanic doctrine (and yes, anything that is as diabolically opposed to Scripture as her teachings are is from the enemy) - that a true believer would continue to follow her. I think that's what Krispy was trying to say.
I pray that your eyes and heart will open and see the truth about Joyce Meyers.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by almondeyes73
i really don't know what you are trying to say here my head is not in the sand i am trying to find the truth and obviously it will be with out any help from you:wave

You put a blanket accusation out there that we are all motivated by jealousy... I simply responded. We've given you documented proof of her false teaching... and you say thats not enough. I simply responded. How am I not helping?

To quote Al Gore: "You dont need to get snippy."

[Ynott]

Yes, I was thinking of Balaam's a**...err....donkey. :):

;):

[Teresa]

I pray that almondeyes come to see the truth of Joyce like I did. But thats please remember to do this with love. Remember when I first came here and attacked you Toby. :nod

I had to go and see the evidence for myself and I am sure that almondeyes will do just that.

(((((almondeyes)))))) I do understand and I am here for you. Its just that some like me feel so strongly because we were used by these people and I for one am still trying to get over being duped. Remember I watched Joyce everyday for five years. I took this very hard but I had to accept the truth.

feel free to PM me anytime sweetie if you want a partner in figuring this all out. :):

[Christine]

I believe I am reading that everyone wants to get to the truth on this issue, and taking the rabbit hole in fighting each other is only going to derail that goal.

:):

[almondeyes73]

i did not accuse you or anyone else of judging her because of what she has you need to chill out i simply stated that i do not judge people but what they have, i could see how you would take that wrong and i already apologized and if any one cares to notice i did do a search and posted it already ok.

teresa thank you for your kind offer.:wave

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by almondeyes73
i don't cut people down based on the fact that they have a nice house and maybe i don't.

This is what you said. The implication is clear. I dont need to chill out... becuz I'm not upset about anything. In fact, if you would please go back and read my post you would see that I directed you toward where you can find the information and audio that you are looking for! My post was helpful. But you didnt want to see that. You would prefer to attack. I'm not sure why, but you can ask the others on this thread... I'm not attacking you. Perhaps 'tis you who need to slow down and actually read what people are posting.

[MercifullySaved]

Almondeyes ~
Here are some more resources for you. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.
http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac17.htm (read this one first)

http://www.letusreason.org/WFDir.htm

[savedandhappy1]

To all. Sorry I have not been able to be back on the computer since my post yesterday.
1. I am not a follower of Joyce Myers. I am a follower of Jesus Christ.
2. I have not heard her say these thing you have mentioned, but will be watching and looking and praying.
3. When we are saved we become a new creature in Christ the Bible says, and I believe that is what Joyce was meaning. She has said more then once that we all are born sinners, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be saved, and have eternial life.
4. When I speak of fruits, I am talking about the people that have been saved watching her programs. I believe that if these people ask Jesus to forgive them, and meant it with all their hearts that they are saved, no matter what teacher or preacher they are watching.
5. Her reward is not just in her house. Are you trying to tell me that because she has a big house, and at least in some of our eyes not necessarilly GOD's eyes, which is who we all have to answer too, that she will not be rewarded for the souls that were saved watching her programs.
6. Some people say she is new age, but from what I understand if you are new age you are to look inside yourself for your peace and salvation. From yourself. I have never heard her say this, but have heard her say many times that salvation, love, peace, mercy, etc. all come from Jesus.
7. I can't believe how this has cause such a mess. I do pray daily for Jesus to guide me in everything I do, think, say and about the preachers I listen to. I read my bible, and talk to people about things that preachers have said that I guestioned or did not understand.
I could say more, but I think this is getting out of hand. I thank everyone for their advice. I will check into the sites that were listed.
I just think we all need to be about our fathers business, and spend more time witnessing to lost souls, and less time trying to find fault with everyone and everything.

Love in Christ,
Kathy

[carmen]

Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy
We had a missionary speak last night. I can't recall the numbers, but there were many, many more applicants to be missionaries than there was money to send them.

Jesus didn't even have a home, but Joyce can live like a Vanderbilt? Just wondering if you saw this, Saved? It seems like a great point to consider, IMHO :):

[Ynott]

One need look no further than Jesus and the apostles to see how money is to be "spent".

None lived in a big compound and none provided such for their children. Only Jesus said , "believe in me"... The rest said, "Believe in Jesus"....

The scriptures tell us to store up our treasure in heaven....not here on earth.

I don't have a problem with great wealth when it is earned by your own hand.

I do have a problem with great wealth that is earned through coercion of others who believed their "love offerings" were going to help the poor and needy obtain food and shelter, not the evangelist get a new corporate jet.

It is easy to "select a verse" to support this heretical lifestyle. The careful Christian doesn't listen to their excuses, but instead reads the bible in context in all areas to see exactly what the Lord meant.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by savedandhappy1
When we are saved we become a new creature in Christ the Bible says, and I believe that is what Joyce was meaning. She has said more then once that we all are born sinners, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be saved, and have eternial life.


But that is not what she said. And her doctrine of sinlessness is repeated by her in her sermons and writings... and it is classic WOF doctrine repeated by Copeland, Hinn and the rest.

This is what Joyce said... (and she knows exactly what she is saying and she means this):

“I’m going to tell you something folks, I didn’t stop sinning until I finally got it through my thick head I wasn’t a sinner anymore. And the religious world thinks that’s heresy and they want to hang you for it. But the Bible says that I’m righteous and I can’t be righteous and be a sinner at the same time ... All I was ever taught to say was, ‘I’m a poor, miserable sinner.’ I am not poor, I am not miserable and I am not a sinner. That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is what I was and if I still am then Jesus died in vain. Amen?”

She says it right there. It's as clear as a bell what she means. And if the religious world deems that to be heresy, then color me religious... because it is heresy.

Why do I know that? Because Paul said this:

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

If Paul was Joyce Meyer, he would have said "of whom I was chief." But he didnt. He said "of whom I am chief."

Some may say this is a minor thing... but it isnt. We are not sinless. She is saying that she is living a sinless life. No one has except Christ! She is a sinner saved by grace. I am a sinner saved by grace. If I still sin, then I am a sinner. I'm still saved... but I am also still a sinner.

1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[AnotherOldGuy]

i simply stated that i do not judge people but what they have,

Neither do I. But, what about how they get it?

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy
Neither do I. But, what about how they get it?

Amen... thank you. Thats exactly what I was trying to say.

[Christine]

Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy
Neither do I. But, what about how they get it? :nod

[RJs here]

all I've got to say on the *jealousy* issue ~ is you (meaning *anybody*) can FORGET that right now!!!


I would NOT want to have all that stuff -- turning my head, coercing me to get my eyes off Jesus, and then, to have to give an ACCOUNT to Him later on!! :eek



1 John 2
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.



1 John 3:17
But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

[glorymj]

Personally, I would not want so much stuff that you need armed guards to protect it all. :twitch

What's the point? It's just stuff, after all. Means nothing in the big scheme of things. Often means nothing ten minutes after you buy it. :B:

[lookinupval]

lovely scripture references, RJ...very to the point.

I've been in the process of getting rid of my "stuff" for 2 years now...almost down to the basics.

all I have to do is go on a missions trip to know that this junk I have means absolutely nothing.

Make me neither rich nor poor, just give me my daily bread, and I'm perfectly happy.

[gzusrulzme]

can someone post a link to the pictures of her home and stuff? I would like to see that.


thanx

[Christine]

Originally posted by gzusrulzme
can someone post a link to the pictures of her home and stuff? I would like to see that.


thanx Here you go...

http://graphics.stltoday.com/infographics/joycemeyer/joycemeyer4.html

[gzusrulzme]

:eek :eek :eek

[Ynott]

...just your run of the mill everyday "humble" abode.....

:freaked :eek :freaked

[Creeper]

This is the response from my DD about JM's humble home...


Wow that is cool! It is so good to see God's promises become a reality.
Joyce has reached soooooo many people for the Lord. She has been through so
much in her life. How wonderful to see her finally able to live in
prosperity after so many years of going without. Her messages are always so
humble and practical. If she had not been so faithful in working on what
God asked of her, she would never have had anything but bitter sorrow.
Awesome! It is sad how so many people are jealous and critical of her. If
they are not willing to do what she did to get what she has, they should not
be envious of what she has. Don't you think? I hope if the Lord tarries I
am so blessed some day! He takes the wealth of the wicked and gives it to
His faithful.
Thanks for that mom. It gives me hope that maybe "good" deserving people
are blessed in this life.

[RJs here]

hmm.... anxious to hear others' responses to what creeper posted -- written by her DD.


Specifically, where do the WOF bunch come up with THIS:

He takes the wealth of the wicked and gives it to
His faithful.


:confused

[lookinupval]

I'm sorry for that, Creeper. Egads.

If God takes the wealth from the wicked, and I become poor, does that mean I'm wicked?

[MercifullySaved]

He takes the wealth of the wicked and gives it to
His faithful.

And what about wicked people who die in their riches? What about faithful people who lose their money?

This is the Gospel of the WOF movement, not the Gospel of true salvation. :tsk

Edit2add:

It is sad how so many people are jealous and critical of her.

Even more saddening is the fact that her followers are being led away from the true glory of Jesus and the Father. :(:

[Sozo]

Joyce has a nice car.
Joyce has a nice house.
Joyce wears nice clothes.
Poor babies!

I've been broke since I got saved. I've had money since I've been saved. And saved WITH money is better than saved WITHOUT money!

Notice I did NOT say saved OR have money...I said saved WITH money! What is wrong with someone having nice things? It's SO sad that people would RATHER stay broke and sick and miserable, than to take God at his word and receive health, prosperity and happiness!

Someone said Jesus didnt even have a house...that's traditional teaching! By your traditions, you have made the word of God of no effect! Go back and read the scriptures! The bible says Jesus took ALL his disciples and MANY others into HIS house and sat down to eat! There was enough room for MANY to sit and eat!
Jesus had a treasurer...that alone should speak for itself! Broke people don't hire treasurers!
When He fed the 5000, the disciples asked if they should go and buy bread (to the equivelant of 200 days pay)...It would be rather STUPID to ask if they didnt have the money to begin with!

I thank GOD I'm saved.
I thank GOD I have so much money I can afford to GIVE to those in need.
I thank GOD for my new car and my wife's new car and our new house.
I thank GOD that we just gave 325 families a thanksgiving dinner.
I thank GOD that HIS word remains true and there is neither male NOR female in the body of Christ.
I thank GOD for a woman like Joyce who will stand up for the word of God and preach the uncompromised truths in it!

What should we say to those that are saved and blessed in every area of their life because of her ministry? should we tell them they can't go to heaven because they were saved under the ministry of a woman? Whether or not you believe in woman preachers, in the prosperity gospel, in healing...none of that matters if you are not saved to begin with...so answer just the one question....what will God do with those saved under her ministry? condemn them all to hell?

[Christine]

Originally posted by Sozo
to take God at his word and receive health, prosperity and happiness!Where in "God's Word" can I find this?

Someone said Jesus didnt even have a house...that's traditional teaching! By your traditions, you have made the word of God of no effect! :twitch

That scripture speaks to people adding things TO the Word of God. Like what you are doing here. :nod

Go back and read the scriptures! The bible says Jesus took ALL his disciples and MANY others into HIS house and sat down to eat!That was Peter's mother's house. :):

Jesus had a treasurer...that alone should speak for itself! Broke people don't hire treasurers!Fred Price? Is that you, Fred? Where do you get that Jesus "hired" anyone? I need scripture on this, please -- chapter and verse.

For my part, I will say that Jesus asked his followers to GIVE UP their jobs and follow him -- that he would teach them to fish for men. Note that says "men", not "cash".

:):

When He fed the 5000, the disciples asked if they should go and buy bread (to the equivelant of 200 days pay)...It would be rather STUPID to ask if they didnt have the money to begin with!What?! :twitch

[zion]

Originally posted by Christine
Fred Price? Is that you, Fred?
:pound :pound :pound

good post Christine :thumb

[Teresa]

Sozo I am sorry but every word you wrote is directly from the wof teaching. If you have not thourghly researched wof then I sugest you do so at once.

I once thought just like you did because I had been brain washed into believing all the heresy they teach.

[MercifullySaved]

Originally posted by Sozo

I thank GOD that HIS word remains true and there is neither male NOR female in the body of Christ.


Then how do you explain the qualifications of being ordained as a deacon/bishop in the Church in 1st Timothy 3:12?? Let deacons be husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. (emphasis mine)
Your post was full of demonic, non-scriptural doctrine. I suggest you seriously take a closer look at your opinions in comparison with Scripture.

[MikeJ]

Sozo,

The Lord was homeless during His public ministry; Mat 8:20 And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head."

I have no doubt that there are truly saved people in Joyce Meyer's ministry but they are saved because they understand enough about the Grace of God to be saved in spite of her false teachings.

Mike

[FluffyMuffy]

Doesn't the Bible say in Hebrews 13.8, that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever? Well, is the way Joyce Myers and many, many others, the way Jesus taught his disciples to be? What Jesus taught His disciples applies to all who have chosen Jesus Christ down through the ages up to and including today.

Can you truly imagine when Jesus was on Earth, Him or any of his disciples pleading for money, dangling the proverbial carrot in front of their noses by trying to entice them by telling them if you give x amount you will get multiple times that much back? If you're giving with the anticipation of what you're going to get in return, then you might as well just use the money for your own pleasures and forget it.

Since this thread is about Joyce Myers in particular, I will make a comment about her, though it applies to countless many others like her. Let's face it, she is worth multiple millions. She will never be able to spend it all in one lifetime, plus her children and grandchildren are extremely well off to get them through their lives.

What I'm getting at is why doesn't she set the example herself and do what she's telling others to do? She could give up say, just one of her millions, and that money could be used by God in so many ways! I'm not talking about contributing it to some charity for the purposes of a tax write off, I'm talking about giving it up period.

This whole WOF stuff upsets me cause so many are being deceived. But unfortunately, the truth is, is that greed is causing the majority of these people to be deceived. For some, it's not so much greed I don't think. I imagine those who are struggling financially, and hear her stuff, and that of others, and are led to believe if you give all you have, or close to it, then sit back and watch your financial reward roll in, then of course some will grab at any straw to help themselves out and give all they have.

A big problem I see with this is that these reasons for giving are the wrong reasons. God wants us to give to Him, but not for what we'll get out of it. Then, the giving isn't out of love and to be used for God's glory, but given for selfish (though some perhaps understandable) reasons. I'm under the understanding that we're to give from our hearts, expecting nothing in return, except that God will use your offering for His glory.

OK, hopping down from my soapbox now.

[Sozo]

okay...my final post on this topic.
I mentioned prosperity and christine asked 'where can I find that in the bible'? I'll post a few scriptures, even though I know they will be rebuttled anyways....here goes:

II Corinthians 8:9 - For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

John 10:10 - The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.

Psalm 37:4 - Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Luke 6:38 - Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

II Corinthians 9:6-8 - But this [I say], He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God [is] able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all [things], may abound to every good work:

Philippians 4:19 - But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

Psalm 35:27 - Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.

III John 1:2 - Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Acts 10:4 - And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Joshua 1:7,8 - Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it [to] the right hand or [to] the left, that thou mayest prosper whithersoever thou goest. This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Psalm 112:1,3 - Praise ye the LORD. Blessed [is] the man [that] feareth the LORD, [that] delighteth greatly in his commandments. Wealth and riches [shall be] in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

Romans 8:32 - He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Proverbs 13:22 - A good [man] leaveth an inheritance to his children's children: and the wealth of the sinner [is] laid up for the just.

Deuteronomy 8:18 - But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for [it is] he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as [it is] this day.

Malachi 3:10 - Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that [there shall] not enough [to receive it].

Proverbs 3:9,10 - Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Proverbs 10:22 - The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.

I Timothy 6:17 - Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;

John 15:7,8 - If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

Deuteronomy 29:9 - Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.

I Kings 2:3 - And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:

I Chronicles 22:13 - Then shalt thou prosper, if thou takest heed to fulfil the statutes and judgments which the LORD charged Moses with concerning Israel: be strong, and of good courage; dread not, nor be dismayed.

II Chronicles 26:5 - And he sought God in the days of Zechariah, who had understanding in the visions of God: and as long as he sought the LORD, God made him to prosper.

Ephesians 6:8 - Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether [he be] bond or free.

Proverbs 19:17 - He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.

Christine ALSO said Jesus was at Peter's MOTHERS house?
Mark 2:15 - And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in [B]HIS house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

I never knew Peter's mother was a man!
I WILL accept correction if wrong on this, but to me, it seems as if the SUBJECT of the sentence is JESUS, and they sat at meat in HIS house....assuming the house which is being referenced would belong to the subject in question.

I WILL read any future follow ups, but there are admittadly more AGAINST the subject than for, so I will back off on this thread. I DO however appreciate everyone's input and STILL love ya in Christ's love! Constantly praying for discernment, wisdom, knowledge, and understanding on behalf of us all. (yes I include myslef in ALL)

God Bless!
SOZO

[MercifullySaved]

I don't have the time to break down every verse you've quoted, Sozo, but I will tell you this...you have taken every single one of those verses out of context. I'll go through each of them when time allows, assuming nobody beats me to it.

Oh, I have to cover just one of them....
Mark 2:14 As He passed by, He saw Levi the {son} of Alphaeus sitting in the tax booth, and He *said to him, "Follow Me!" And he got up and followed Him.
Mark 2:15 And it *happened that He was reclining {at the table} in his house, and many tax collectors and sinners were dining with Jesus and His disciples; for there were many of them, and they were following Him.

No, no...they were eating at Levi's house. Note that "he" is upper-case, but "His" is capitalized. Gee...ya wonder why that is??? :rolleyes

[Christine]

Originally posted by Sozo
Christine ALSO said Jesus was at Peter's MOTHERS house?
Mark 2:15 - And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in HIS house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.

I never knew Peter's mother was a man!You posted no scripture -- I thought you were referring to the WoF mainstay that Jesus had a huge house -- large enough to hold many people overnight that they reference in John 1:39. THAT was Peter's mother's house in Capernum.

I see the verses you posted, and I counter them with: Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in [his] wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger [from his right], and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Matthew 6:19-21 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

John 9:1-3 And as [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man which was blind from [his] birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. You see, it is a concept called STEWARDSHIP. Not robbing the poor to give to the rich.

Now -- where are those scriptures about Him hiring a treasurer?

[Christine]

I think I will repost Malachi 3:5 again as it does seem to get overlooked in the rush to jump to verse 10... And I will come near you for judgment; I will be a swift witness Against sorcerers, Against adulterers, Against perjurers, Against those who exploit wage earners and widows and orphans, And against those who turn away an alien-- Because they do not fear Me," Says the Lord of hosts.

:):

[Bondservant]

Originally posted by Christine

Now -- where are those scriptures about Him hiring a treasurer?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
:laugh
And we see where the "treasurer" He did have (Judas) ended up. We are told he was so consumed with greed and $ that he was stealing from the money bag. The lust for money and power (wanting Jesus to be the fleshly King and throw down the Romans) blinded him to the Truth and real purposes of Jesus, as it does the WOF folk. Judas ended upa traitor & bankrupt (spiritually) and was so despairing (but not repentant) that he hung himself. So much for the treasurer.

[AnotherOldGuy]

Luke's account:

(Luke 5:27 KJV) And after these things he went forth, and saw a publican, named Levi, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he said unto him, Follow me.

(Luke 5:28 KJV) And he left all, rose up, and followed him.

(Luke 5:29 KJV) And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.

[Christine]

Excellent point, Bondservant! :clap

Now, if Sozo can only produce the scriptures that talk about Judas being a hired employee of Jesus Ministries, Inc.

[Sozo]

Sorry Christine...I said final post (even though this IS a post) LOL!

The bible says to refrain from vain babblings...there's not profit to it. I say we agree to disagree on the subject.

As for the HOUSE issue, If you will note my post, I said I was definately open to correction on THAT issue. Thank you to all who posted responses! I had not read another version that mentioned SPECIFICALLY that it was Levi's house.

now, moving on to ANOTHER topic....
Christine, you mentioned the verse that says LAY UP TREASURE IN HEAVEN....that sounds wonderful....can you tell us HOW you lay up treasure in heaven? Would leading someone to the lord lay up that treasure? how about praying? would that do it?
There are only TWO verses that say HOW to do it...but since they refer to the <gasp> prosperity teaching....I'll refrain from posting them.

Okay Okay....I can't help myself!
You also mentioned:
Mark 10:23 - And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! And the disciples were astonished at his words.

The Disciples were ASTONISHED! But Jesus CLARIFIES his statement in the VERY NEXT VERSE:

Mark 10:24 - But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Here he states that it's not the MONEY that makes it hard for them, it's hard for those that TRUST in that money, and not in Him

And finally....as for Judas dying in his sin:
I never said he was a good man....I simply pointed out the fact that Jesus HAD a treasurer. Broke people simply don't have treasurers, whether hired or not, there is no need for a treasurer to take care of an empty bag!

[zion]

Lets look at the clear biblical evidence. Jesus was born in a stable (his parents knew the approximate time of his birth so they could have reserved a place, so could God have made sure he had a room) But it was to be in a stable. Lk.2:22-24 Mary sacrifices two turtle doves which is a poor households sacrifice (Lev.12:2-8) Archeological excavations of Nazareth from the 1950’s show the village of Jesus day were occupied by poor agricultural people. As Jesus grew up he worked in the trade of a carpenter, not trade known for its wealth. How did Jesus become rich with a step-dad who was a carpenter? There is absolutely no indication anywhere that he was wealthy.

Matt. 11:7-8; Lk. 7:25 "As they departed, Jesus began to say to the multitudes concerning John: "What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken by the wind?" But what did you go out to see? A man clothed in soft garments? Indeed those who are gorgeously appareled and live in luxury are in kings' courts." Neither John or Jesus dressed as those who show Gods blessings today, with thousand dollar suits and shoes.

Matt. 8:19-20: "Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, "Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go." And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head." Jesus himself he had no place to lay his head, no permanent home, he constantly traveled. He dressed like everyone else, he even said to forsake this world to inherit his kingdom. His kingdom is not of this world and he made it perfectly clear in His teachings. Some seem to think that Moses may have gotten it all wrong to have forsaken the riches and pleasures of Egypt and suffer affliction with his brethren looking by faith to him who is invisible." (Heb.11:24-27). He didn't have to, he could have had the best of both worlds.

[MercifullySaved]

Originally posted by Sozo


II Corinthians 8:9 - For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

His riches were in Heaven, over which He - obviously - reigns. He left His divine throne and became like a peasant, and died...so that we don't have to. Through His poverty (the sacrifice), we are able to join Him in Heaven. This verse has nothing to do with financial prosperity.


John 10:10 - The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
Again, this has nothing to do with financial prosperity, but rather is meant to say that we're no longer slaves to the law.

Psalm 37:4 - Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
How about this one? Pro 19:22 The desire of a man [is] His kindness: and to be a poor man [is] better than a liar.

Philippians 4:19 - But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
Again, this has nothing to do with financial prosperity, but rather the glory and grace of Christ.


I'll do more when I have time, but I hope you're at least starting to get the point...you're way, way out of context. :sigh

[Sozo]

Originally posted by zion
Lets look at the clear biblical evidence. Jesus was born in a stable (his parents knew the approximate time of his birth so they could have reserved a place,

Yes, lets look at biblical evidence!
The bible says plainly THERE WAS NO ROOM.
It doesnt say they couldnt afford it, it doesnt say they were poor meagerly beggers, poorly shod and foot sore, woe, dispair and agony on me!

My God people! THERE WAS NO ROOM! I have never seen people fight so adamantly to stay poor, sick, and live in the middle of horrible circumstances.

John 19:23,24 - Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also [his] coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

They were GAMBLING for his CLOTHES....you don't gamble for rags...it don't happen. He wore NICE clothes, His coat was woven without seam!

Mark 6:37 - He answered and said unto them, Give ye them to eat. And they say unto him, Shall we go and buy two hundred pennyworth of bread, and give them to eat?

A penny was a days wages. If we compare that to todays economy, I don't think ten dollars an hour is a ridiculous amount of money, so we could say eighty dollars a day times 200 days, that would be about $16,000. The disciples actually asked Jesus if they should go out and buy $16,000 worth of food. Why would they even bother asking if they didn't have it to begin with?

John 12:3-6 - Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment.
Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's [son], which should betray him,
Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor?
This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.

Once again, we see a pence (or penny) this time $24,000 worth of perfume was poured onto the feet of Jesus. Judas had been stealing from the treasury the whole time and was upset that the ointment wasn't sold. The fact that Jesus even had a treasurer should speak for itself.

[KrispyKritter]

Originally posted by Sozo
The bible says to refrain from vain babblings...there's not profit to it. I say we agree to disagree on the subject.

Everyone is doing a great job debating this... and I dont have time to throw in my 20 cents worth... but I did want to comment on this one statement. So many times WOF folks would rather not debate the issues, so they either say the statement above, or they say "Doesnt the Bible say 'Touch not the Lord's annointed?'"

This is hardly considered "vain babblings". When it comes to doctrine, we are to contend for it. Paul did... and not only did he contend for sound doctrine, he also named the names of those who were spreading false doctrine.

When it comes to doctrine, it is very profitable (I thought your use of the word profit was rather interesting in the context of this discussion!), and it is very important.

Sozo, I'm glad you've been blessed in the manner you have, but I do have a question for you... how do you take your American-Westernized gospel of prosperity to the lost and impovershed nations? What do you tell the African preacher who's congregation is a tribe in the jungle, or the Body of Christ living in the sewer infested areas of India? If your doctrine only flies in America, but not in ALL areas of the world... rich and poor... then it is a false doctrine.

Salvation applies to all... prosperity doctrine does not.

Salvation - true.

Prosperity doctrine - false.

[FluffyMuffy]

Sozo,

This isn't a personal attack on you. I'm just curious why so much anger, sarcasm and hostility in your post? "My God people" and using God's name like this?

I don't see anyone "fighting" (except you), and no one is adamantly insisting we should be "poor, sick and live in the middle of horrible circumstances." If that's what you're reading into our posts, then you're reading them wrong.

I'm not going to take the time to try to explain everything because so many have tried to explain it and in better ways than I ever could.

Please calm down, reread the posts, and think about it. :):

[Ynott]

People gamble over the weather. They gamble over when someone will die.

They gamble for the love of gambling.

Go to a gambler's anonymous meeting if you don't believe me.

The soldiers at the cross had one of the most boring and depressing jobs in the kingdom! They did ANYTHING to relieve their boredom.

OF COURSE THEY GAMBLED. It was and still is a normal pass-time of soldiers all over the world...and they don't need something "valuable" over which to gamble.

I can't believe you used that as an argument.

:doh

[The Bearen]

I am glad you guys have posted this thread about Joyce meyer .

I really think its sad when prosperity preachers milk there followers and live in luxury and boast how blessed they are.

Also saying that God is blessing there families like there spouces owning golf courses.

As someone stated earlier there are missionaries who are really struggling in parts of the world.

This is outright hypocrosy and it makes me so angry and we need to keep speaking out people.

[Becky]

Sozo, our treasure is in heaven not on earth. We are not arguing that Ms. Joyce has a big house, nice car, etc. We are arguing how she got them.

You seem to be ignoring scripture we are giving you as well.

One more thing. Remember when Ms Joyce said she was "sinless"?

1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.


Again, this argument has nothing to do with being rich, but how you get there. Hard work will have it's rewards weather by material blessings or heavenly blessings.

Remember:
Our riches are not here on earth but are in heaven.

[Ynott]

I cannot believe some of what I am reading to justify the mindless pursuit of wealth....or thinking of wealth as a "badge of Christship" or something.

Based upon this kind of thinking, Bill Gates must be about the BEST CHRISTIAN in the world!

God does not "reward" his servants with money. It just doesn't happen that way. If He does give one of his servant's wealth, He expects that servant to use it to further the kingdom....nevertheless, Jesus Himself says how difficult it is for a rich man. Quite frankly, I'm glad I'm not saddled with such riches...Anything that distracts me from Christ is WRONG. Great wealth is a great temptation. Few can withstand it.

That's the biggest problem I see with following this "vain philosophy". Money is a useless commodity. It saves no souls. It is hard and lifeless. Christ says to look at it and see whose face is upon it and render it under that individual (Ceasar or the "world"). We are not "of the world".

You cannot serve two masters and if you are pursuing wealth as a measure of God's love, you may surely get it. Those who receive their earthly reward will NOT be storing up their treasure in heaven. You cannot be storing up wealth in both bank accounts.

If you have enough to meet your needs, it is time to look elsewhere as to where to place that money to serve Him. Surely, God will meet our needs if we ask Him. But what we consider "our needs" and what He considers "our needs" may be two entirely different things.

Look at the lavish lifestyles of these infamous "leaders"! How does their lifestyle serve God? It does not. They have succombed to the temptation. Jesus turned down Satan offering Him the world. He didn't cash a check when he fed the 5000 either. Money was a useless thing to Him. He didn't need it or desire it. That's probably why he let the greediest disciple carry it. He was sifting Judas, even then.

Money is a great sifter. It reveals more about your character than anything else...and more quickly. Perhaps God has allowed these preachers to acquire great wealth so that we can SEE them for what they truly are (by their stewardship). Do not be deceived!

If you cannot see this, it is because you do not want to. You know in your heart how wrong this is, but your desire for vindication of your belief system, or your own greed is overwhelming the small still voice within you.

No, God desires that we place Him first in everything. His acceptance of us is called GRACE, not the almighty dollar! It is enough that He has covered me and redeemed me. I seek to serve Him, not PROFIT BY HIM OR THROUGH HIM.

No! No! No! Such error.... Unbelievable.

It's not about the money. Repeat that with me now:

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY.

[KrispyKritter]

If it's true that the wicked's money will end up in my hand ... (I sound like Bob Tilton when I say that!) ... then when is some of Bill Gates money coming my way?? As far as I know, he is not saved and therefore God considers him wicked... I need to pray a little harder I guess. Not enough faith... oh well.

(tongue embedded firmly in cheek!)

[Becky]

Good replys. :thumb

How about this:

Matthew 19:24
And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Our lives are so short compared to eternity in heaven. Money used in ministries need to go to saving souls, not mansions.

[Becky]

Mark 4
18Now these are the ones sown among thorns; they are the ones who hear the word, 19and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things entering in choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. 20But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred."

[Becky]

Romans 12:16
Be of the same mind toward one another. Do not set your mind on high things, but associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own opinion.

[Ynott]

Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

But not your wealth?



Mar 12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

If this were true, then surely they should be sharing equally of their wealth with their flock....Or don't they love "them" like they love themselves?

[Becky]

Ynott, Joyce does not allow anyone in her "compound" unless they want to buy a book, but I doubt they let anyone in for that. :sigh

Greed is all it is really. It all boils down to the love of money. They can't seem to understand this. Our treasure is in heaven, not earth.

70 years on earth. Eternity in heaven. Who cares if I have a mansion here? But if I use the money for a missionary, that lays up treasures for me in heaven.

No common sense anymore. :tsk

[Ynott]

Amen, Becky!:thumb

[Christine]

Originally posted by Sozo
The bible says to refrain from vain babblings...there's not profit to it. I say we agree to disagree on the subject. If you consider the discussion of scripture 'vain babblings' then you may need to reconsider if this is the site for you. You see, we hold the BIBLE as ultimate authority and question interpretations of it, not the other way around.

:):

[Christine]

Originally posted by Sozo
My God people! THERE WAS NO ROOM! Please don't use the name of the Lord in vain on this site.

[larryp]

hi everyone. i think this is the second time i have typed up a post.
before i get to what i want to say a little help first. i am a bad speller and i don't know how to spell check my post. so can i get alittle help?

some of you have talk about the camal and the eye of a neddle but you also should have use the next part as well. i could be wrong here and if i am let me know. with man this may not be possible, but with god all things are possible.

i could be wrong about this as well but didn't abraham get alot of his riches because he lied about his sister being his wife a few times. and jacob got alot of sheeps and goats because his father-in law was cheating him. i guess what i am tring to say is that god does sometimes take from the bad and give it to the righteous.

i my self have never heard joyce say the things that have been posted here. having nice things don't bother me. what i would like to know is this. does she give 10% to her church, does she give money to missions.help feed the poor, the homeless,the sick? if she does this things or more than i don't know what the problem is. i don't really know what wof is about, can someone list a few things that are bad with it so i can try to understand where they are wrong.

i hope to post more ofen and try to spell words right. may the lord bless you all.

larryp

[Sozo]

Originally posted by Christine
Please don't use the name of the Lord in vain on this site.

Ignorance. Plain and simple. MY GOD is MY GOD and he will ALWAYS be MY GOD.

of course it's vain to you. You don't know him. anytime anyone says God, it will be vain in your ears.

You've done nothing but attack me since this thread started. I never FORCED anyone to believe the same things I do. I gave SCRIPTURE and the reasons behind my beliefs. I now have a better understanding of those that have ears but won't hear.

MY GOD MY GOD MY GOD.
I say that in CHURCH <gasp> Outloud <gasp gasp>
He is all powerful and I can NOT contain the power that resides in me...it's GOT to come out...It's like fire shut up in my bones.

Of course there will be those like you that have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof until He returns. He said we WILL know them by their fruits and the only fruit I've seen is attacks and condemnation. No responses in Christ's love, no loving correction, not even a hint of "let me help you understand this better", just one attack right after another.

But let someone try to voice an opinion contrary to yours! No WAY! we can't have that on these boards! attack the argument, not the person! Hypocracy...apostacia...

[cindyw]

Originally posted by Sozo
Ignorance. Plain and simple. MY GOD is MY GOD and he will ALWAYS be MY GOD.

of course it's vain to you. You don't know him. anytime anyone says God, it will be vain in your ears.



:eek

[SAHM]

Just wondering......

How many of you posting on this thread tithe FAITHFULLY 10% to your church and financially support the mission field or a charity of some kind?

Sahm

[AnotherOldGuy]

Ooooooh - there's a good defense: "But they're doing the same thing".

Really think that'll fly?


(James 3:1) My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.

(Mat 23:14) "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

[Ynott]

Originally posted by Sozo
Ignorance. Plain and simple. MY GOD is MY GOD and he will ALWAYS be MY GOD.

of course it's vain to you. You don't know him. anytime anyone says God, it will be vain in your ears.

You've done nothing but attack me since this thread started. I never FORCED anyone to believe the same things I do. I gave SCRIPTURE and the reasons behind my beliefs. I now have a better understanding of those that have ears but won't hear.

MY GOD MY GOD MY GOD.
I say that in CHURCH <gasp> Outloud <gasp gasp>
He is all powerful and I can NOT contain the power that resides in me...it's GOT to come out...It's like fire shut up in my bones.

Of course there will be those like you that have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof until He returns. He said we WILL know them by their fruits and the only fruit I've seen is attacks and condemnation. No responses in Christ's love, no loving correction, not even a hint of "let me help you understand this better", just one attack right after another.

But let someone try to voice an opinion contrary to yours! No WAY! we can't have that on these boards! attack the argument, not the person! Hypocracy...apostacia...

Sozo, I'm sorry that you are so upset. But as I read the posts, I saw only the use of scripture and logic used to refute you. Not once did anyone question your Christianity and yet here you go doing it to another here. Not once, but twice in one post.

I understand that you are upset. When a belief system is strenuously challenged, that often happens. Yes, we have been firm in our beliefs. We believe what we are saying...and yet we have not said these things to you in anger, but out of conviction.

I apologize if your feelings were hurt. It was not my intention to injure you, but to open your eyes to what I and others here see.

[MercifullySaved]

Originally posted by Sozo
Ignorance. Plain and simple. MY GOD is MY GOD and he will ALWAYS be MY GOD.

of course it's vain to you. You don't know him. anytime anyone says God, it will be vain in your ears.

You've done nothing but attack me since this thread started. I never FORCED anyone to believe the same things I do. I gave SCRIPTURE and the reasons behind my beliefs. I now have a better understanding of those that have ears but won't hear.

MY GOD MY GOD MY GOD.
I say that in CHURCH <gasp> Outloud <gasp gasp>
He is all powerful and I can NOT contain the power that resides in me...it's GOT to come out...It's like fire shut up in my bones.

Of course there will be those like you that have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof until He returns. He said we WILL know them by their fruits and the only fruit I've seen is attacks and condemnation. No responses in Christ's love, no loving correction, not even a hint of "let me help you understand this better", just one attack right after another.

But let someone try to voice an opinion contrary to yours! No WAY! we can't have that on these boards! attack the argument, not the person! Hypocracy...apostacia...

What made your usage of the term "My God" vain is the fact that you could replace "My God" with any expletive of your chosing in the context within which you used it. You were not addressing God. Nor were you talking about God. No, you used the term "My God" as a replacement for an expletive, and that, my brother, is taking His Holy Name in vain. :tsk

[lighthouse]

SOZO IS HARD TO REACH, BECAUSE HE IS IN A CULT AND THEY ARE THE HARDEST TO REACH!.THEY ARE BRAINWASHED AND DO NOT HEAR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. DECIEVED.


SOZO WHAT YOU SAID WAS PROFANITY!. IT WAS NOT THAT YOU SAID GOD BUT HOW YOU SAID IT. AND YOU HAD NO RIGHT TO SAY CHRISTINE WAS NOT SAVED BECAUSE OF IT. TRULY I WANDER ABOUT YOUR SALVATION, AND THAT IS SOLEY DUE TO YOUR VERY UNCHRISTLIKE ATTITUDE.


AS FOR THE HOUSE WITH NO ROOM,


WELL JESUS WAS BORN IN A STABLE AND THERE WERE OTHER OCCUPANTS. SUCH AS SHEEP AND GOATS.


AND THE THE INN WAS FULL UP CUZ OF THE CENSUS AT THAT TIME. SINCE MARY AND JOSPEH WERE SO POOR THAT DID NOT HAVE MUCH OF A CHOICE.

HOMES IN THOSE DAYS WERE OFTEN 1 ROOM . SO YES THERE WOULD NEVER BE A LOT OF ROOM.





WOF=CULT


I KNOW I WAS THERE AND THANK GOD ALMIGHTY I AM OUT!

[Christine]

Sozo,

No one here attacked you, they attacked the doctrine that you promoted. They attacked it with scripture, not personal insults.

For this, you attack salvation? Because someone took the teachings you were posting and compared them to the Bible?

:(:

[Teresa]

Sozo I have to agree with Lighthouse in the above post. She has been where you are and so have I. Because we were part of wof we know how you think in regard to the scriptures you gave in an earlier post. I have all those "prosperity" scriptures highlighted in my best Bible. Which I now find very annoying when reading this Bible.

I have been going through those scriptures that wof love to give and finding out the true meaning of them. Almost all of them have nothing to do with money.

Sozo I am in no way attacking you or your salvation. I believe that most people are saved while being in the wof movement. I was brought back to the Lord throug