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View Full Version : Last installment of the Joyce Meyer series in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch


Diane 1611
November 19th, 2003, 10:25 AM
Here is the summary of the fourth and final installment in the Joyce Meyer series. If you click on the link below, you can get to the full story, as well as related articles.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/9BACBE5D5EF7A16586256DE30018E1F3?OpenDocument&Headline=Summary%3A+The+prosperity+gospel

Summary: The prosperity gospel
By Bill Smith and Carolyn Tuft
Post-Dispatch
11/18/2003


The end of the 1980s was a bad time for TV preachers.

One moment, men like the PTL Club's Jim Bakker and television's Jimmy Swaggart seemed bigger than life, supermen blessed with an uncanny ability to attract followers and money. The next instant, they were only men -- fragile, flawed and the butt of barroom jokes and newspaper cartoons.

In many ways, it seemed like the beginning of the end for big-time TV religion. Look, the critics said, the emperors really do have no clothes.

But Americans, at least many of them, seem to have forgotten and forgiven. TV's salvation shows are still here, bigger and flashier than ever, thanks to the proliferation of the internet and the continued spread of satellite and cable TV.

The names may have changed -- Juanita Bynum, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, T. D. Jakes, St. Louis' Joyce Meyer and a dozen others have replaced Bakker, Swaggart and Oral Roberts at the top of the evangelical mountain -- but the message remains virtually identical.

Believe with all your heart and soul, they tell the faithful. And give, give, give until you can't give any more.

God, they say, loves a cheerful giver.

In the late 1980s, when the sex-and-fraud scandals boiled over into America's living rooms, Joyce Meyer's little radio ministry was scarcely a blip on the evangelical radar screen.

Today, Meyer heads a ministry fast approaching $100 million a year and is among a dozen or so evangelical superstars headlining a revived, and very healthy, industry.

The prosperity gospel also has been called the ``name it and claim it'' theology. God wants His people to prosper, evangelists like Meyer maintain. Those who follow God and give generously to his ministries can have anything, and everything, they want.

But critics, from Bible-quoting theologians to groups devoted to preserving the separation of church and state, abound. At best, they say, such a theology is a simplistic and misguided way of living. At worst, they say, it is dangerous.

Michael Scott Horton, who teaches historical theology at the Westminister Theological Seminary in Escondido, Ca., calls the message a twisted interpretation of the Bible -- a ``wild and wacky theology.

``Some of these people are charlatans,'' Horton said. ``Others are honestly dedicated to one of the most abhorrent errors in religious theology.

`` I often think of these folks as the religious equivalent to a combination of a National Enquirer ad and professional wrestling. It's part entertainment and very large part scam.''

Sociologist William Martin of Rice University said that most people who follow TV religious leaders put so much trust in them that they want them to thrive. Martin is a professor of sociology at the university, specializing in theology.

The preachers' wealth is ``confirmation of what they are preaching,'' Martin said.

Ole Anthony's Trinity Foundation, best-known for working with the national media to uncover questionable activities involving TV evangelists, often resorts to digging through preachers' trash to find incriminating evidence. Anthony said that most of the preachers begin with a ``sincere desire to spread the faith. But the pressure of fundraising slowly moves all of them in the direction of a greed-based theology.''

Even J. Lee Grady, editor of Charisma & Christian Life magazine has become alarmed at what he sees as the excesses of some TV preachers.

Grady defends the principle that if you are stingy with your money, you will lack things in life; and if you are generous, you will get things in return. ``But that doesn't mean you can treat God like a slot machine,'' Grady said in an interview.

Bakker, who spent five years in prison for defrauding Heritage USA investors, says he has had a change of heart about the prosperity gospel. The same man who once told his PTL coworkers that ``God wants you to be rich,'' now says he made a tragic mistake.

``For years, I helped propagate an impostor, not a true gospel, but another gospel,'' Bakker has said in his 1996 book, ``I Was Wrong.''

``The prosperity message did not line up with the tenor of the Scripture,'' he said. ``My heart was crushed to think that I led so many people astray.''

While Bakker may have changed his tune, many more TV preachers are steadfast in their conviction that if you give money, you will receive it many times in return.

Meyer spends most of her three-day conferences on lessons in giving, and she is blunt when she addresses what the critics say about her seed-faith interpretation of the Bible. She says that those preachers who believe that to be godly is to be poor are the ones who have it wrong.

``Why would He (God) want all of His people poverty stricken while all of the people that aren't living for God have everything?'' Meyer said. ``I think it's old religious thinking, and I believe the devil uses it to keep people from wanting to serve God.''

pilgrimgal
November 19th, 2003, 11:31 AM
Reminds me of the following:

Would He wear a pinkie ring, would He drive a brand new car?
Would his wife wear furs and diamonds? Would His dressing room
have a star?
If He came back tomorrow, there's something I'd like to know. Would Jesus wear a Rolex on his television show?

Courtesy of Ray Stevens.

Ynott
November 19th, 2003, 11:39 AM
It is harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.....

I feel very sorry for the people that are bilked by this vain and foolish philosophy. But I remain faithful that God understands THEIR hearts in this.

However, Ms. Meyers is a whole other kettle of fish. She enjoys her reward now and will have none later.

KrispyKritter
November 19th, 2003, 12:11 PM
Someone out there gave money to her ministry when they couldnt afford to pay their utility bills... thinking the money would be used to spread the gospel... but instead it helped pay for a $19,000 pair of Dresden vases, six French crystal vases bought for $18,500, an $8,000 Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity, two $5,800 curio cabinets, a $5,700 porcelain of the Crucifixion, a pair of German porcelain vases bought for $5,200.

Thats pathetic.

AnotherOldGuy
November 19th, 2003, 12:39 PM
(John 12:5) "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages."

(John 12:6) He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.




(Luke 18:22) When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."




(Luke 6:20) Then He lifted up His eyes toward His disciples, and said: "Blessed are you poor, For yours is the kingdom of God.

(Luke 6:21) Blessed are you who hunger now, For you shall be filled. Blessed are you who weep now, For you shall laugh.

(Luke 6:24) "But woe to you who are rich, For you have received your consolation.



It's not a sin to be comfortable and have things, but to preach contrary to Christ's words and then flaunt my gains from it is something that I pray I never have the guts to do.

glorymj
November 19th, 2003, 12:43 PM
As far as I'm concerned she's a thief. :mad




2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that [had gathered little had no lack.


The poor are NOT supposed to be giving to the rich.. it's SUPPOSED to work the other way around.

:(:

Singlesis
November 19th, 2003, 04:18 PM
I have hesitated to even post a reply here, not knowing really what to say. In the past I have enjoyed a lot of her tapes and books, and related to her past, enjoyed her humour, etc. I know many who have been touched by her teaching, etc.

But what do you say when you see these pictures? I see nothing wrong with evangelists/ministers making their living from donations ... most pastors do this. I see nothing wrong with her children working for the ministry and drawing a paycheck. But the EXTREME luxurious lifestyle is.... again, what can anyone say?

Sadly, so many of them do this. The money and fame gets to so many of them. They become blinded and dazzled by being in the spotlight and unfortunately that becomes more important than the gospel they were first called to preach/teach, etc. I've worked for a lot of big ministries, and there are very few who do NOT fall victim to this. They somehow come to believe that they "deserve" that lifestyle. :tsk

But as a bumper sticker I saw recently on a Christian brother's t-shirt states (regarding earthly riches):
It's all just going to burn anyway...

AnotherOldGuy
November 19th, 2003, 04:20 PM
Not just earthly riches

SapphireGrl
November 19th, 2003, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by glorymj
As far as I'm concerned she's a thief. :mad




2Co 8:13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:
2Co 8:14 But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:
2Co 8:15 As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that [had gathered little had no lack.


The poor are NOT supposed to be giving to the rich.. it's SUPPOSED to work the other way around.

:(:
I just wanted to give you a hearty AMEN, Glory! You hit the nail on the head! :nod

How dare these people think that the POOR and those in need are supposed to be supplying THEM, who have everything, with money! I'm sure it sickens and angers God. :tsk

Christine
November 19th, 2003, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by Singlesis
The money and fame gets to so many of them. They become blinded and dazzled by being in the spotlight and unfortunately that becomes more important than the gospel they were first called to preach/teach, etc. I am willing to take this a step further. IMO, this is nothing more than taking the Lord's name in vain -- and by that I mean using and abusing it for personal wealth.

Such are Laodicea's leaders.

:sigh

Jacinth
November 19th, 2003, 07:18 PM
I was saved after listening to a Joyce Meyer program. And I guess that's all I'm going to say.

AnotherOldGuy
November 19th, 2003, 10:07 PM
(Luke 9:1) When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,

(Luke 9:2) and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

(Luke 9:3) He told them: "Take nothing for the journey--no staff, no bag, no bread, no money, no extra tunic.

(Luke 9:4) Whatever house you enter, stay there until you leave that town.

(Luke 9:5) If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them."

(Luke 9:6) So they set out and went from village to village, preaching the gospel and healing people everywhere.


You know, Judas was one of those twelve. God can use anybody.

glorymj
November 19th, 2003, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy
You know, Judas was one of those twelve. God can use anybody. :freaked That never occurred to me. Very interesting.

cindyw
November 19th, 2003, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy
(Luke 9:1) When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,

(Luke 9:2) and he sent them out to preach the kingdom of God and to heal the sick.

You know, Judas was one of those twelve. God can use anybody.

Mt. 7:22-23. Thank you AnotherOldGuy. Now those verses make perfect sense to me........Blessings in Jesus, Cindy

cindyw
November 20th, 2003, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Diane 1611

``Why would He (God) want all of His people poverty stricken while all of the people that aren't living for God have everything?'' Meyer said. ``I think it's old religious thinking, and I believe the devil uses it to keep people from wanting to serve God.''

I guess Joyce never read Acts 2:45...........or the other scriptures which show those Christians who HAVE giving to those who do not.........not the other way around:wave

Ynott
November 20th, 2003, 01:32 AM
Jacinth, I hesitated to add this, but I will. Joyce Meyer didn't save you. Jesus did.

I know that is what you meant, but it "grated" on me to hear it any other way.

Jesus saved me while I was sitting in my car....It was a rental and I returned it.

Singlesis
November 20th, 2003, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by AnotherOldGuy

You know, Judas was one of those twelve. God can use anybody.

He also used an a** once too. :tape

aboundingjoy
November 20th, 2003, 07:52 AM
Prov 23:4 KJV

Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom

Carlosabc
November 20th, 2003, 08:07 AM
____Quote________________________________
I was saved after listening to a Joyce Meyer program. And I guess that's all I'm going to say.
________________________________________

Thats great! Now, are you going to continue to follow her teachings? The "Blab it and grab it" teachings. The "Jesus burned in the fire on your behalf" teachings.

The "God wants you rich" teachings.

Will you continue to follow the teachings of Joyce Meyer?