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Carlosabc
October 24th, 2003, 01:00 PM
I had a rather surprising chat with our youth Pastor of our church last night on the phone. We talked for about an hour and a half.

I wish I recorded it. In brief, our topics varied, but I can say this. Although he is easy to talk to, and he is a super duper guy, (I told him that as well), trying to make a point with him is impossible.

Example, he asked me "What makes churches split, why do people have differences" something like that. I answered by saying, people have different ways of interpreting the Bible. Different taste etc. (Something like that. Not the exact wording).

One of my examples was based on 1 Cor 14. About the head covering. I told him people interpret these verses in different ways. The Bible forbids women from praying without having the heads covered. He said our church does it all the time. He then said, "When (Name deleted) is praying and all heads in the congregation are bowed, aren't the women praying in silence with their heads uncovered? We went on about that.

We talked about how men pray and how they should not have their heads covered according to 1 Cor. 14. He told me that Jesus had his head covered. I was surprised to hear that. I asked for scripture. He said "Jesus had a crown of thorns". I told him that that was an involuntary thing that occurred. He had no choice. We talked about men with long hair. He said that was a cultural thing that does not apply today.

Have you ever tried to catch a snake by the throat? Just when you think you can place the snake in the bag, he slips out and is found in the other side of the room.
Not calling the youth pastor a snake, but when you are trying to make a point, he will throw a monkey wrench in the argument.
I can give you many examples of this concerning our conversation last night.

He told me that if he had it his way, the music he plays now would be cranked up ten times, to the point where the bricks on the church walls would crack.

We talked about ear rings, (he wears them to show his loyalty to God as the slaves in Lev (OT) showed their love to their slave masters. He said he would show me scripture on this.
He said he would get a tattoo if he did not have health concerns. (No he is not getting a tattoo.).

"Music is objectionable" Music itself has no morality. Its the lyrics that make music good or bad he said.

I asked him if that's the case, can we take the most wild type of music, (dearth Vader like, black Sabbath) kind of heavy metal hard rock, can we take that and remove the lyrics, and add words to that music that praises God. Could we play that kind of music in the church.
He said "I would suppose so". He acknowledged that that kind of music would not fly in our church, but he would have no problem with it.

There was so much that was said by him that I disagree with.

Please let me have your thoughts.


Pardon the mistakes. I rushed through this.

KrispyKritter
October 24th, 2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by Carlosabc
I had a rather surprising chat with our youth Pastor of our church last night on the phone. We talked for about an hour and a half.

I wish I recorded it. In brief, our topics varied, but I can say this. Although he is easy to talk to, and he is a super duper guy, (I told him that as well), trying to make a point with him is impossible.

Example, he asked me "What makes churches split, why do people have differences" something like that. I answered by saying, people have different ways of interpreting the Bible. Different taste etc. (Something like that. Not the exact wording).

So far you're doing good...

Originally posted by Carlosabc
One of my examples was based on 1 Cor 14. About the head covering. I told him people interpret these verses in different ways. The Bible forbids women from praying without having the heads covered. He said our church does it all the time. He then said, "When (Name deleted) is praying and all heads in the congregation are bowed, aren't the women praying in silence with their heads uncovered? We went on about that.

He is showing his immaturity in the Word here. But you're right, this is definately one topic that gets people fired up. By the way, I think if a woman wishes to cover her head, let her. But I personally dont believe it's an issue to break fellowship over. My wife does not cover her head.

Originally posted by Carlosabc
We talked about how men pray and how they should not have their heads covered according to 1 Cor. 14. He told me that Jesus had his head covered. I was surprised to hear that. I asked for scripture. He said "Jesus had a crown of thorns". I told him that that was an involuntary thing that occurred. He had no choice. We talked about men with long hair. He said that was a cultural thing that does not apply today.

Jesus' crown of thorns was his covering? This guy is teaching the youth of your church? I've not heard that one before. Back to seminary with this guy... do not pass go... do not collect the $200 tithe!

Originally posted by Carlosabc
Have you ever tried to catch a snake by the throat? Just when you think you can place the snake in the bag, he slips out and is found in the other side of the room. Not calling the youth pastor a snake, but when you are trying to make a point, he will throw a monkey wrench in the argument. I can give you many examples of this concerning our conversation last night.

Actually I caught a copperhead in my kitchen a month or so ago... but I digress...

Are you telling me you havent felt that way on this website when discussing any given subject??

Originally posted by Carlosabc
He told me that if he had it his way, the music he plays now would be cranked up ten times, to the point where the bricks on the church walls would crack.

Again... more immaturity, and a lot of insensitivity toward those who dont like his kind of music, whether for matters of personal tastes or otherwise. By the way... the bricks wont crack, but the mortar might!

Originally posted by Carlosabc
We talked about ear rings, (he wears them to show his loyalty to God as the slaves in Lev (OT) showed their love to their slave masters. He said he would show me scripture on this.
He said he would get a tattoo if he did not have health concerns. (No he is not getting a tattoo.).

I know a number of Christian men who have earrings and tattoos... some got the tattoos after being saved. I dont really see it as an issue. In the same chapter in the OT that forbids "marking" it also says not to trim the sides of your beard. Funny how we throw out one verse, but keep another. Having said that, however, I do believe that men wear earrings for one reason... to bring attention to themselves. Each person needs to examine in their heart why they do things like that. Actually, we need to examine our hearts about everything we do.

Originally posted by Carlosabc
"Music is objectionable" Music itself has no morality. Its the lyrics that make music good or bad he said.

I agree w/this statement. As a musician and a song writer, I go along with this thinking. When you get down to it, music is nothing but pure mathematics.

Originally posted by Carlosabc
I asked him if that's the case, can we take the most wild type of music, (dearth Vader like, black Sabbath) kind of heavy metal hard rock, can we take that and remove the lyrics, and add words to that music that praises God. Could we play that kind of music in the church.

Actually this kind of Christian music has been around for 30+ years. The older Black Sabbath sounding Christian bands were The Resurrection Band (the lead singer is an ordained minister), Petra, Messiah Prophet, ArcAngel, etc etc. I love all kinds of music... and there are Christian bands and artists out there playing almost every style of music. Let me affirm that I do have some very real concerns about the Christian Music industry... but it's got nothing to do with any particular style of music.

Originally posted by Carlosabc
He said "I would suppose so". He acknowledged that that kind of music would not fly in our church, but he would have no problem with it.

Would this kind of music fly in most churches? No, of course not. But "church" is an environment... and every style of music is not suitable for every environment. When I'm driving around I love to listen to bluesy southern style (Christian) rock... when I'm eating dinner w/my family we like light jazz... when I'm rocking my 4 month old to sleep I put on classical... when we're worshipping the Lord we like worship music... and guess what y'all! I LOVE BLUEGRASS MUSIC! And no, Bluegrass is not smurf dope!

Originally posted by Carlosabc
There was so much that was said by him that I disagree with.

Celebrate diversity!! (just kidding) ... Give me any two Christians and I will promise you they will find something to disagree about. It's extremely important that we have correct theology concerning things that truly matter. So far tho, you've pretty much covered a lot of things that dont. He is very immature in his way of thinking, and seems to be centered on him and his likes or dislikes. If he expects to succeed as a church leader he needs to get over that. It will happen with time and experience. Give him 5 or 10 years and have this same conversation with him. I bet it wont be the same.

In the meantime, I would be very concerned with how he plays fast and loose with the Bible. The crown of thorns was hardly Jesus' covering. It was a symbol of shame and punishment for the sins that you and I have/will committed. I can just see someone creating a whole doctrine on this, and thats dangerous. He also has a bent toward using scripture to legitimize or rationalize the things that he wants to do, and not necessarily what the Lord wants to do. This kind of thinking is very contagious, especially to the young people he is supposed to be leading and teaching. If you're a parent, and you are entrusting you children to this guy, then you better think twice. God will hold you responsible for the influences you allow into your childrens lifes. You are the one God will ask "Why was your child influenced in this way?" ... not this youth minister. He will be held responsible too as a teacher and minister... but ultimately, it will be you answering.

Just something to think about.

tractsforchrist
October 24th, 2003, 02:02 PM
What is wrong with Christian hard rock?

:confused

The only music that i worship to is contemprorary and it is very appropriate.........


Plus I take the head coverings in context