Help finding verse

[daphne]

Yall help me find the verse that says if your brother offends you, first go to him then bring witnesses then take it tooo, the church? elders? something like that.

And if you have any advice about this situation, it would be appreciated.

I work in the church nursery and while we are not a full time daycare, we are there 7 days a week sometimes 2 shifts a day. There are about 25 of us. There is one worker who is very judgemental and condemming and often puts other workers down. No one was talking about this thinking they were the only one but recently the problem has gotten so out of hand, a couple of workers (and parents of the children we keep) have been brought almost to tears by this woman's attitude and harsh words she speaks to us.

It came out that we all have had a problem and I was asked to take it to the director. I said that is not what the bible says to do but no one agrees with me because it is a nursery wide problem that is affecting parents also. Also, it would not just be one person confronting another but so far there are 8 with a complaint and we have not talked to the others.

I am praying about what to do. But all opinions are welcome.

[PreTribber]

Hi Daphne,

Matthew 18:15-17
- Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
- But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
- And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

I would suggest you do according to the Scriptures. One of you approach her first and discuss your concerns. If this doesn't resolve the problem, then have a couple more approach her to confirm the concerns. Take it to the director as a last resort.

[blitzkreig]

This is not really a sin issue per se but a personality and skill issue. Lots of folks have short comings in this area.

If a big issue is made of it things too soon it could back-fire.

The workers should be discouraged from talking about the person behind their back. You can assist by telling others when they bring it up, that you understand first hand, but that a lengthy discussion about it among yourselves is counter productive.

Then take it upon your self to talk to the party in question in private. Be honest but in a understanding sympathetic way not a condemning way. Even go so far as to mention that others are starting to talk among themselves and you have taken it upon yourself to discourage that. Never name names.

Offer to be a friend. It is probable the person doesn't have that many and this may be their way of dealing with the loneliness.

If that fails yes then take it to the director... do not approach her as a "group" (even two of you) as that would be pretty hard to deal with except by first denial and then bitterness on her part.

[antsinmypants]

it's also in Deuteronomy:


Deu 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; [but] at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.


Deu 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.


the other verses are :

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2Cr 13:1 This [is] the third [time] I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.


1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.

Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

[daphne]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
This is not really a sin issue per se but a personality and skill issue. Lots of folks have short comings in this area.

If a big issue is made of it things too soon it could back-fire.

The workers should be discouraged from talking about the person behind their back. You can assist by telling others when they bring it up, that you understand first hand, but that a lengthy discussion about it among yourselves is counter productive.

Then take it upon your self to talk to the party in question in private. Be honest but in a understanding sympathetic way not a condemning way. Even go so far as to mention that others are starting to talk among themselves and you have taken it upon yourself to discourage that. Never name names.

Offer to be a friend. It is probable the person doesn't have that many and this may be their way of dealing with the loneliness.

If that fails yes then take it to the director... do not approach her as a "group" (even two of you) as that would be pretty hard to deal with except by first denial and then bitterness on her part.

Right, I told the other workers it may just be her personality. And can I just say we did NOT figure out everyone had the same problem by talking about her. One worker came in very upset and asked for prayers for the nursery in general and I said I agreed because I had a problem myself. Someone asked about the problem and I right there said we are NOT going to discuss this but pray about it. The other workers just one at a time said they wanted to know because they were having a problem also.

2 people mentioned circumstances only but they were the exact same problem. Then the rest of us had to agree we all were facing the same problem, without ever mentioning names, we just each thought we were the only ones because NO ONE EVER TALKED BAD ABOUT THIS WOMAN.

Also, a few of us have one on one told her she was being hurtful and she felt she was right in her judgement of us. Plus, the other workers do not feel their problem with her will be solved if I just go to her with my problem with her. Even if she stops speaking to me so ugly, it may not change how she treats others.

Not trying to find a loop hole, just giving details as to why no one thought going to her in private would be helpful. And here is what I am unsure about; since she has already been turned in for going against nursery and church policy and it has moved to her treating parents and children badly, I feel I may need to at least inform the director that I plan to go to her in private. Afterall, the director needs to be aware of any problems in her ministry, right?




ps THANKS. I knew it was in Matthew but for some reason could not find it.

:wave

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by daphne
Not trying to find a loop hole, just giving details as to why no one thought going to her in private would be helpful. And here is what I am unsure about; since she has already been turned in for going against nursery and church policy and it has moved to her treating parents and children badly, I feel I may need to at least inform the director that I plan to go to her in private. Afterall, the director needs to be aware of any problems in her ministry, right? Yes you need to take it to the director. If the children are effected the sooner the better. You really don't have a choice then.

[daphne]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
Yes you need to take it to the director. If the children are effected the sooner the better. You really don't have a choice then.

That is not my problem with her though. Another worker has said she was mean to the children but that worker will not go forward. I have a problem with how she talks to me. So me going to either the woman or the director with that problem is sticky because it is just what someone else told me.

She was already turned in for making a parent cry. That did not involve me either.

[blitzkreig]

hearsay is not admissible in formal proceedings... but when it comes to children... one can not be too careful.

I would still leave it on the director's broad sholders... that's why they are paid the big money :D:

[John Tyson]

Grace and peace to you all.

Daphne,
I do pray that you can work things out. I commend you for your work with the nursery. What a wonderful ministry. When the adults are acting like immature babies, maybe it would help if they were immature babies--then you could just change them.

I'm sure you've heard this before :): but for a smile I'll share it again. The nursery children's Bible verse for their caretakers:
1 Cor. 15:51 (NASB)
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed.
:B:

I'd recommend talking to your director. The director already knows about this problem person and is probably about to deal with it soon.

God bless,
John