Do You Think Non-believers Who Arrogantly Choose Hell.......

[Stevangelist]

Will regret their decision come judgment day if they have refused Jesus or will they still through the fire arrogantly brag about Hell as they enter in?

Will people who end up in the lake of fire be jealous of us Christians existing in eternal paradise or will they be proud they chose to refuse God for all eternity?

What do you think?

[Jiggy37]

Originally posted by Stevangelist
Will regret their decision come judgment day if they have refused Jesus or will they still through the fire arrogantly brag about Hell as they enter in?

As they enter in, maybe, but I ain't seeing it happening after a day or so in there of realizing there's no escape.

Will people who end up in the lake of fire be jealous of us Christians existing in eternal paradise or will they be proud they chose to refuse God for all eternity?

What do you think?

If they could be proud of it for all eternity, that might be a little too close to the "arrogant God-hater's heaven" as opposed to the hell it's supposed to be.
On the other hand, I'm not so sure; I mean, I suppose a non-believer could find some vague sort of happiness in knowing which of his/her believer friends/family went to heaven, so it's arguable.

[Bondservant]

Ithink part of the desperate,unending torment of hell will be that those there will be constanly tortured by the thought and reality that they rejected G-d, and they will see that G-d did everything in His power to save them, and they rejected it They will have seen the Majesty of Jesus when they bow down and declare He IS Lord, remember ALL flesh will declare He IS Lord, some will declare it to Him as thier L-rd and other as thier Judge. Every tongue will confess that Jesus is L-rd. I do not think arrogance will be there...there will be too much agony annd gnashing of teeth in utter darkness and despair and regret. Its an very sobering thought if you dwell on it, and even more reason to reach out to those G-d loves and yet are headed there. And by the way, G-d will get no satisfaction turning these people away, it will breakHis heart and He will have tears in His eyes I believe. Sobering, sobering thoughts!

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Stevangelist
Will regret their decision come judgment day if they have refused Jesus or will they still through the fire arrogantly brag about Hell as they enter in? Absolutely with out a doubt. And they will for all eternity. There will be lots of blaming too but regret,... yes.

[Bondservant]

I don't think there will be blaming either. ALL will see that God is a Righteous Judge and that His judgement is Perfect. I believe they will KNOW they are to blame for where they are, that will be part of the torment. Can you imagine that torment, to know that it was YOUR own fault that you are where you are, that you chose to be seperated from G-d for all eternity, and after having seen His glory and love...that will be utter torment. When He shows them the nail scars in His Hands and says "...see what I did for you, how much I loved you and wanted you..." Oh, I don't think there will be any blaming or arrogance, just utter desperate despair.

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Bondservant
I don't think there will be blaming either. ALL will see that God is a Righteous Judge and that His judgement is Perfect. I believe they will KNOW they are to blame for where they are, that will be part of the torment. Can you imagine that torment, to know that it was YOUR own fault that you are where you are, that you chose to be seperated from G-d for all eternity, and after having seen His glory and love...that will be utter torment. When He shows them the nail scars in His Hands and says "...see what I did for you, how much I loved you and wanted you..." Oh, I don't think there will be any blaming or arrogance, just utter desperate despair. You are assuming they get a shot of rationality they just don't have today. Perhaps... but I don't know.

I think most who reject absolute TRUTH are,... well below stupid,... deluded... dare I say it?... reprobate. They have rejected facts in the face of truth. What I think is pretty obvious.

Now I come from a background of truth, surrounded by love, so I do find it difficult to empathize with what appears to me to be obvious but ... I just don't know...

[Bondservant]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
I think most who reject absolute TRUTH are,... well below stupid,... deluded... dare I say it?... reprobate. They have rejected facts in the face of truth. What I think is pretty obvious.
Now I come from a background of truth, surrounded by love, so I do find it difficult to empathize with what appears to me to be obvious but ... I just don't know... "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm so glad your not G-d.

[Vickimac]

Originally posted by Stevangelist
Will regret their decision come judgment day if they have refused Jesus or will they still through the fire arrogantly brag about Hell as they enter in?

Will people who end up in the lake of fire be jealous of us Christians existing in eternal paradise or will they be proud they chose to refuse God for all eternity?

What do you think?

Whatever the human argument is now, it won't mean squat on that day. Arrogantly brag? Not a chance.

[Timothy]

Here's a few verses:

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

II Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Isaiah 14:12-20 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

Note that they KNOW God's judgement, have PLEASURE in unrighteousness. They will greet Satan.

EDIT NOTE - See Romans 1

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Bondservant
I'm so glad your not G-d. Me too :nod

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Vickimac
Whatever the human argument is now, it won't mean squat on that day.

Which brings up an interesting question.

Will we be happy about God's justice or not? Will those in heaven be somehow saddened by the vengeance taken by God?

Some now think of God that His foretold Judgment is... well... un-just. Or questionable... or that His providence is not merciful.

Does anyone think we will continue to think that in Heaven? Will we suddenly see the Justice of it all in Heaven?

[Timothy]

Originally posted by blitzkreig Some now think of God that His foretold Judgment is... well... un-just.

Just amplifying you Blitz :D:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

The wrath of God is ALREADY revealed, and it's on the way, but it is not yet pour out. The day is appointed.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness…

[blitzkreig]

I hear you Timothy. But sometimes I get the feeling a lot of folks think God’s justice against the sinner is … well not like a loving God should be. They would have His revealed judgement differnt...Him different. I mean If they could create the "vision" themselves. From Scratch.

I have a challenge with that of course as I don’t come from there… but I do hear it time and again that God is some how... perhaps... unjust... or perhaps just questionable. Sometimes even from from Christians.

The fact that God chose to save a remnant from their sin and didn’t save every living person on earth is complicating matters for some,... but I just feel…. well very ...very thankful.

I have never felt the need to question God's judgment in such a way.

[Chronus]

I have never felt the need to question God's judgment in such a way.
Then you are truly blessed indeed.

I have struggled with the issue of predestination for five years now. If, indeed, God destined man to fall so that He can save some . . . well . . . then . . . all I know is that He is right . . . somehow. In the meantime, I just can't see it and will have to hang on to the fact that God is right, just and good.

Pertaining to those who end up in hell. I suspect they will behave like those described in Revelations:

"They were seared by the intese heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him." - Rev 16:9

"Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done." 16:10

"And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible." 16:21

I know the above verses apply to the punishements mentioned, but I think the attitude the non-believers take here is the same kind they'll have in the final judement.

I suspect that prior to this attitude, the unrepentent will first beg to be let in (parable of the virgins) combined with "what did I do wrong?" (parable of sheeps/goats). When all is said and done, when all their excuses are burned up and they know they are hell-bound, I think then that's when they'll go all out and curse God (perhaps even blaming him).

Their progression, I suspect, gets worse and worse:

". . . while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being decieved." - 2 Timothy 3:13

[Jade]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
Which brings up an interesting question.

Will we be happy about God's justice or not? Will those in heaven be somehow saddened by the vengeance taken by God?

Some now think of God that His foretold Judgment is... well... un-just. Or questionable... or that His providence is not merciful.

Does anyone think we will continue to think that in Heaven? Will we suddenly see the Justice of it all in Heaven?

My gut feeling is that in heaven we will have complete understanding of God. We will understand how it could not be any other way. Although we may have some sadness over our lost relatives and friends (despite the "no tears in heaven" beliefs), I believe we will see the righteousness of God in His actions against those who are lost forever.

[Vickimac]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
Which brings up an interesting question.

Will we be happy about God's justice or not? Will those in heaven be somehow saddened by the vengeance taken by God?

Some now think of God that His foretold Judgment is... well... un-just. Or questionable... or that His providence is not merciful.



Will we be "happy"? We will finally fully understand, so I don't think we will question it at all or be unhappy about it.

(Love how you dance all these threads into your stance on pre-destination). I may disagee with your views on the subject, but that does not mean I question Gods mercy or his justice. WhatEVER the complete truth is, it is right, just and good (period) and I too, am eternally grateful for the call. Like Chronus, I will just put my trust in God.

Just because I do not see it the way you see it should not imply that I think God is unjust. You have NEVER heard me say that anyway. You assume anyone who does not see the calvinistic view, automatically thinks God is unjust? :rolleyes

Let me spell it for you. To say that He has pre-destined any to hell might "seem" very unjust to me, my human little mind. IF that IS the truth, (which I cannot grasp now) then I am sure I will fully understand it when I am with him, and never question it in my heart. But for now, it does not jibe with other scripture or with the God that I know. Why would God pre-destine some to hell and then say that he wishes none to perish? Does he go against his own wishes? No, don't answer that!!! Rhetorical question only!!! I will not debate you on this.

God is just, he is holder of all divine truth and I trust him implicitly, whether you or I am right or wrong on this subject, has no matter, because HE is always right. Not you, not calvin, just God alone holds all the answers. So you should not make assumptions that people who not see pre-destination the way you do, think God is unjust or unmerciful. :):

[rs41]

Originally posted by Chronus
Then you are truly blessed indeed.

I have struggled with the issue of predestination for five years now. If, indeed, God destined man to fall so that He can save some . . . well . . . then . . . all I know is that He is right . . . somehow. In the meantime, I just can't see it and will have to hang on to the fact that God is right, just and good.

Pertaining to those who end up in hell. I suspect they will behave like those described in Revelations:

"They were seared by the intese heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him." - Rev 16:9

"Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done." 16:10

"And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible." 16:21

I know the above verses apply to the punishements mentioned, but I think the attitude the non-believers take here is the same kind they'll have in the final judement.

I suspect that prior to this attitude, the unrepentent will first beg to be let in (parable of the virgins) combined with "what did I do wrong?" (parable of sheeps/goats). When all is said and done, when all their excuses are burned up and they know they are hell-bound, I think then that's when they'll go all out and curse God (perhaps even blaming him).

Their progression, I suspect, gets worse and worse:

". . . while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being decieved." - 2 Timothy 3:13 I don't struggle with predestination because I don't agree with it. But I believe in hell people will regret their decision, and remember every time they rejected Christ. I also believe they will not only realize they condemned themselves to hell, because of their leadership they led some or all of their children there also.

[Singlesis]

The Rich Man and Lazarus

Luke 16:
19 "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell[4] from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24"Then he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25But Abraham said, "Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'
27"Then he said, "I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' 29Abraham said to him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30And he said, "No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 31But he said to him, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead."'

Not necessarily "jealous" - more like great agony, remorse, humiliation... weeping and gnashing of teeth... great burden for loved ones NOT to experience the same fate.

[Ponderin]

However, they will feel it certainly will not be good. Perhaps, the tears that are wiped away from our eyes will be our complete understanding of why these lost ones have chosen to reject Christ. Perhaps, the tears which are in heaven before being wiped away will be for our regrets and loss of rewards . . . We all shall surely see one way or the other . . . A riveting thought, IManyO, no doubt.


Mr and Ms self-righteous may say, "Look, I was a good person! I gave to the needy. I was not a heinous sinner. I believe I should be in those books"

No.


Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.


Mr. and Ms. Tolerant may say. "All religions lead to You. Everyone is entitled to choose his or her own path we just need to be and tell others to be sincere, right"

No.

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

He Who is "not willing that any should perish" (2 Peter 3:9) will with geat sadness say "I never knew you; depart from me . . . " (Matthew 7:23)

Hell will be a place where there is no turning back, no matter how the condemned may feel or react. The point will be moot after the fact. They will be condemned and sentenced to eternity in darkness, the darkness of night that never ends. Willfull, defiant to the end, derelicts of humanity. Their boastful arrogant choice to reject God's sure offer to "come unto Him" will bring them no consolation at the White Throne Judgment no matter how they might protest.

That is a fearfully and tradgic thought. The fear should lead us to tell the truth and show compassion to the lost now. As it is written "Now is the day of salvation"

2 Corinthians 6

1As God's fellow workers we urge you not to receive God's grace in vain. 2 For he says,
___"In the time of my favor I heard you, _and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.


John 10:27
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." 17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.



"John tells us that men are judged out of the Book of Life and out of the book of works. Although we are not told specifically, I believe there are at least five books that will be opened on that fateful day.

First the Book of Conscience. Undoubtedly there will be some standing there who will say, "I never heard of God's law or the way of salvation . . . how can I be found guilty." The apostle Paul wrote to the early church: . . . since they show that the requirement of the law are written on their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them" (Romans 2:15)

In other words, man will be condemned because he violated his conscience during his life upon the earth.

Second, the Book of Works that Jesus explained, "For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned"

(Matthew 12:37)

Those words might be, "I'm not interested in spiritual things." Or, sure, I believe in God, but everybody has his own god he worships."

Third, the Book of Secret Works. "This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ" (Romans 2:16)

D. L. Moody, the famous evangelist, used to say if a man ever invented a camera that could take a photograph of the human heart, he would starve to death for people would refuse to have this revealing picture exposed.

Fourth there's the Book of Public Works. " . . . He will reward each person according to what he has done" (Matthew 16:27)

It is dreadful to think of what the sentences will be for some people. Finally, the last one is the Book of Life. "If anyone's name is not written in the book of life, he is thrown in the lake of fire." (Revelation 20:15)."

Dr. David Jeremiah, Escape the Coming Night p. 367, 368, 369



Psalm 55:18 He ransoms me unharmed
from the battle waged against me,
even though many oppose me.
19 God, who is enthroned forever,
will hear them and afflict them-
Selah
men who never change their ways
and have no fear of God.



On a happier note, God is still on the Throne and is in control. Perhaps, He will change the hearts and minds of men before it really is to late!

[Ponderin]

I dreamed that the great judgment morning
Had dawned, and the trumpet had blown;
I dreamed that the nations had gathered to
Judgment before the white throne;

From the throne came a bright, shining angel
And stood by the land and the sea,
And swore with his hand raised to heaven,
That time was no longer to be.

The rich man was there but his money
had melted and vanished away;
A pauper he stood in the judgment,
His debts were too heavy to pay;

The great man was there, but his greatness
When death came, was left far behind!
The angel that opened the records,
Not a trace of his greatness could find.

The gambler was there and the drunkard,
and the man that had sold them the drink,
With the people who sold them the license
Together in hell they did sink.

The moral man came to judgment,
but his self-righteous rags would not do;
The men who had crucified Jesus
had passed off as moral men, too.

The soul that had put off salvation --
"Not tonight; I'll get saved by and by;
No time now to think of religion!"
At last, he had found time to die.

And oh, what a weeping and wailing,
As the lost were told of their fate;
They cried for the rocks and the mountains,
They prayed, but their prayer was too late

~Rodeheaver's Gospel Solos and Duets

[GloryBound]

I think they will regret their decision.

It's hard to imagine that right now, though, especially if you know some of these people. They have been told about salvation, totally reject it in favor of what satan offers them on this earth. And knowing hell is ahead.

I guess I have an unusual perspective on this because I was offered incredible things if only I would serve satan, but I refused it all in favor of my lord Jesus Christ. I guess I have to say that I was offered more than some of these people choose hell in order to have.

Some of them know right now what it is that I refused. Does it encourage them to accept Jesus? NOOOOO!!! They despise me for it. I don't hate them. Jesus died for them and it's not too late for them to change their minds and turn to Jesus. But if they don't, they will never be able to say in the judgement that the temptation was just too great because I will be right there saying it wasn't. All I know is that if Jesus could rescue me from the destiny satan planned for me, He can deliver them from ANYTHING. And some day they will KNOW that beyond a shadow of a doubt. And they WILL regret it.

[tenderheart2]

I don't know if people will be regretting their decision to not have chosen Christ or not, but it sure is a possibility.

But no one will be bragging about it, or there won't be any kind of jealousy toward those that are in paradise with the Lord.

Everyone that dies without Christ and enters hell will know that they deserve to be there. Just like the illustration in the bible about the certain rich man and Lazarus, when the rich man died and was in hell, he wasn't begging Abraham to let him out or questioning the reason why he was there and he wasn't boasting either.

Instead, he was begging Abraham to send Lazarus back to his brothers so he could tell them to come to that place.

In the book of Revelation it says, 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."

Kim

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by Vickimac
God is just, he is holder of all divine truth and I trust him implicitly, whether you or I am right or wrong on this subject, has no matter, because HE is always right. Not you, not calvin, just God alone holds all the answers. So you should not make assumptions that people who not see pre-destination the way you do, think God is unjust or unmerciful. :):

:confused Who mentioned Calvin? By the way Calvin didn't invent anything... Paul and then Augustine perhaps but Calvin just wrote a book or two.

I go by Scripture... but that is off topic...

The facts are from a purely dispassionate human observer's view it would on the surface of it all appear that those who uphold the freewill point of view would think that God was MORE just... as opposed to a totally Sovereign God point of view where God had it all predisposed... that what the natural attraction to "freewill" is. So yes I am interested in finding out your opinion. So I "imply" nothing but ask... because I have to as that point of view is foreign to me. So totally opposite to your "assumption" of my "assumption".
Originally posted by Vickimac
Love how you dance all these threads into your stance on pre-destination If you live in that paradigm it is not easy to avoid... or it would be dishonest. I don't discourage anyone from stating their view... as that too would be dishonest... (edit to add: if they didn't state their point of view)