New Age/Reincarnation/Gnostic Heresies: Need Help Finding Apologetics Tapes

[Ynott]

My mother is so confused and I don't think she is reading anything that I send her....I don't think that she'd read a book either, so can anyone suggest some good tapes (audio, video) to dispell her "confusion" on accepting these things as part of mainline Christianity?

It boggles the mind.

Thanks for your help in advance.

[Rom831]

They aren't tapes, but try sermonaudio.com. They have a wealth of downloadable talks like that.

Bless...ArtS

[antsinmypants]

John Ankerberg

www.ankerberg.com

He has books that he's also done that are outlines and verses.. you can get them on amazon, used or new for about $6 a peice or less.

They're awesome, and have alot more information, verses and "what in the world... " type explainations that help than any other apologetics books I've gotten on the subjects.

Edited to add: He has tapes, and he's also on Sky Angel Tv/Sattelite.

His tapes are kinda pricey, so are the DVDs, but if you know anyone that has Sky Angel or is in Virginia, they could tape it...

:wave

[DeeLeeKay]

Ynott,

Here is a site from my signature. It has a couple of tapes.

http://www.watchman.org/profile/nwagmpro.htm

At the bottom there is a list of apologetics.

[Ynott]

Thanks Ants! Thanks Rom!

Hey Ants, do you know anything about this one?

Eckankar

America Looks Inward: To Self-Realization, To Reincarnation, To Inner Guides

No. of Programs: 6
Video: $29.95
Cassette Audio: $12.00
Transcripts: $10.00
Copyright: 1988


* What about the “ascended masters”?

* Who are they?

* What do they teach?


Former living Eck Master, Sri Darwin Gross, thinks he knows. Former mystic and devotee of Sai Baba, Tal Brooke answers those claims from Scripture and personal experience.

****

I don't think she knows about Eckankar per se, but I'm trying to find something to debunk her love of reincarnation specifically and gnosticism in general.

EDITED TO ADD: Thanks Donna! I'll give this a look too.

[Lonewolf7]

Originally posted by Ynott
My mother is so confused and I don't think she is reading anything that I send her....I don't think that she'd read a book either, so can anyone suggest some good tapes (audio, video) to dispell her "confusion" on accepting these things as part of mainline Christianity?

It boggles the mind.

Thanks for your help in advance.

James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

[Lonewolf7]

This may help also....it is a study that I did on a new age book.Conversations

‘Coversations with God’ 1995

Neale Donald Walsch claims to have spoken with the Almighty God Himself….and says that the bible is a fabrication of lies.

We will examine the god he spoke to …..side by side with the GOD of the Holy Bible…Jesus Christ.


P. 7 this god says we should listen, even when we know it is wrong. That which you do must seem right to you.
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.


This god says…what if everything that I thought was wrong…..was right
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter


P. 8 this god says that the bible is not an authoritative source
Hebrews 4
12For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-_edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
2 Timothy 3
16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2 Peter 1:21
…… men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 1:11
I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up.
Proverbs 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

II Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ

There are those that mishandle the word of God unknowingly, as well as knowingly (deceitfully).

II Corinthians 4:1-2 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.





P. 13 this god says he does not create circumstances or conditions in your life
Acts 17
26….; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us
Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when God tested him,


P. 13 this god says he does not care about the way you live or what you do
Psalm 145:20
The LORD watches over all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.
Galatians 5:21
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.



P. 14 this god says that the ultimate outcome is assured…..(everyone goes to heaven)
Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire


P. 14 this god says don’t live in guilt or fear
Proverbs 2:5
then you will understand the fear of the LORD and find the knowledge of God.
Psalm 25
14 The LORD confides in those who fear him;
he makes his covenant known to them.





John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.




P. 15 this god places buddha on the same level as the Lord Jesus Christ
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."
Romans 10:13
for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
Colossians 1:19
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,



P. 16 this god says we are wonderful…..that god cannot find fault in us.
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


P. 17 this god says that….breaking the commandments of god (our man-made religion) would get us sent to hell.
Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.


P. 19 this god says don’t listen to worldly tutors, listen to wisdom that comes from another source
1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.


P. 20 this god says to listen to your inner voice because it tells you what is true or false
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
Proverbs 28:26
He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool..




P. 24 this god says god is all….and all is god.
Isaiah 46:9
… I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.


P. 34 this god says….you must call upon yourself the darkness. Curse not the darkness
Ephesians 5:8
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
1 John 1:6
If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.
1 John 1:5
This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
1 Samuel 2:9
He will guard the feet of his saints, but the wicked will be silenced in darkness. "It is not by strength that one prevails;


P. 40 this god says there is no hell where you burn in some everlasting fire and torment…..and that he does not send you there.
Revelation 14
10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.


P. 38 this god says that he never set down a right or a wrong…a do or a don’t because that would strip you of the opportunity to do as you please and experience the results of that.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[ 6:23 Or through] Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,


P. 42 this god says yes you may do as you wish without fear of retribution
John 5:14
Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."
Revelation 21:8
–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."


P. 31 this god says that ALL is progressing in an never ending circle…..(re-incarnation)
Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,






P. 41 this god says you are your own rule maker, no one will judge you ever.
John 5:22
Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son
James 4:12
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy….
Romans 14:12
So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


P. 24 this god says there was NO fall of adam…..but on P. 41 this god admits that humankind was once in a state of total perfection….but no longer are now.
Genesis 3:23
So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken


P. 45 this god alludes CLEARLY that he did not write the bible BUT then quoted scripture and verse!!!!!!
Matthew 4
5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'[1] "
Footnotes
1. 4:6 Psalm 91:11,12

P. 30 this god says that ‘knowing is a divine state’
Genesis 3
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."
Revelation 12:9
–that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.

P. 27 this god says….. ‘Knowing Yourself As The Creator’
Genesis 3
4 … the serpent said to the woman. 5 "… you will be like God,…"


P. 27 this god says….I devised a plan, I say collaboration because all of you are in it with me.
Matthew 13:38
The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.












lucifer
\Lu"ci*fer\, n. [L., bringing light, n., the morning star, fr. lux, lucis, light + ferre to bring.]

P. 33 this god clearly alludes to HIMSELF …saying there was a soul once who knew itself to be the light…when every soul was grand……THE BRILLIANCE OF MY AWESOME LIGHT.
Job 38
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the storm. He said:
4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [1] shouted for joy?

Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [ O morning star, son of the dawn!(NIV)] how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit



P. 29 this god says I once existed in the realm of the absolute and it was not sufficient for me.
Ezekiel 28
12 ……. 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:
" 'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [1] turquoise and beryl. [2]
Your settings and mountings [3] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.


Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will be like the most High.




It is not hard to discern just who this god is that speaks to Mr. Neale Donald Walsch.
On page 26 it is stated that Mr. Walsch lived ‘all his years’ not accepting theological doctrine.
He hated God and church. In fact….later on in the book…he admits that he has consulted dozens of New Age Teachers……obviously not men of the true and living God Jesus Christ.
On page 1….he starts out his letter BLASPHEMING Jesus Christ…GOD………and then all of a sudden ‘god’ speaks to him.
Romans 8:7
the sinful mind is hostile to God.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
This book “Coversations with God” absolutely contradicts The Holy Bible of Jesus Christ.
Only one book is absolute truth…..one which has withstood two thousand years and millions of attacks……written by God…using men…. 2 Peter 1:21
For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.


Who will you trust?????? Psalm 31:5
Into your hands I commit my spirit; redeem me, O LORD , the God of truth.

John 8:44
….., the devil, …... , for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Romans 10:9-10 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
We know that God's Word is true. In Numbers 23:19 we read, "God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?" God is the author of truth, and is not able to lie (Titus 1:2). Therefore, we can trust His promises. If He has said that those who believe in Christ alone for salvation, repenting of their sins, and confessing Him as Lord shall be saved, then we can be sure that they will be! And not only that, but we have God's clear promise that He will keep all those whom He has saved secure in His hands until they get to glory; He will lose none of them! (Jn.6:38-39; 10:27-29; Rom.8:35-39).

Galatians 1:9
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!




P. 86 this god says it is the same destination in any event, its just that there is a faster shorter route, a quicker path.
Matthew 7:13
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


P. 48 this god rejects the notion that there is only one path to god.
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me


P. 51 this god says that you create your own plan of salvation
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

P. 56 this god says that the act of adam and eve was not original sin, but a blessing, you should thank them.
P. 57 this god says ..I have produced an eviroment in which you may choose to be god.


P. 58 this god says….what do you think brought you to this material. How did it come to pass that you are holding it in your hands. Do you think I know not what I am doing?
1 Peter 5:8
Be self_controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.


P. 58 this god says…this book is far from my only tool, words in a song, info in an article, next movie you watch….all of these avenues are open to me.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.


P. 61 this god says …evil is that which you call evil…Yet even that I love.
Amos 5:15
Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts.


P. 61 this god says “HITLER went to heaven”

P. 62 this god says….”if there was such a thing as SIN”
Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

[Lonewolf7]

Continued.....P. 63 this god says there is nothing wrong with money at all….nothing evil at all.
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.


P. 64 this god says that we do nothing but think that god is bad and tremble at him
Proverbs 18:24
A man of many companions may come to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer than a brother.
Romans 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[ 5:1 Or let us] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


P. 64 this god says that it is a false notion that we must come to god properly or he will not hear us.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 15:8
God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us


P.64 this god says I don’t want your worship, obedience or is it necessary to serve me.
Daniel 7:27
Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.
Romans 14:11
It is written: " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' "
Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,



P. 65 this god says ..I am without needs, I require nothing, but this does not mean I am without desires.
Isaiah 14
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will be like the most High.


P. 65 this god says…I desire that you shall know and experience who you really are through the power I have given you to create and experience yourself in whatever way you choose.
Luke 4
5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7So if you worship me, it will all be yours."












P. 67 this god says that not everything of the bible authors…was included in the final copy of the bible
Matthew 5:18
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Neale Donald Walsch asks this god how many past lives he lived. Will we see indisputable evidence of extraterrestrial life?

P. 76 this god says think, speak and act as the god you are
P77 this god says that this whole process is a massive move to conciousness. (God conciousness/Christ conciousness) ….these terms are highly used in the satanic new age movement.

The term New Age is used highly and often in this book.


P. 84 this god says …Love the wrong so that you may know the right.
1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
John 3:19
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

P. 94 this god says….In order to know god, you have to be out of your mind.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind


P. 97 this god says honor all life forms…plants, trees and animals
Romans 1:25
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen

P. 108 this god says that it is we who have decided that a person who practices robust sexuality is a sinner…NOT him
1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
Galatians 5:21
and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,






P. 109 this god says….wrong is right and right is wrong.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter
Malachi 3:6
"I the LORD do not change.
1 Thessalonians 5:22
Avoid every kind of evil.




P. 113 this god speaks favorably of eastern mystics/mysticism
mys·tic ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mstk)
adj.
2. Of or relating to occult rites and practices.
3. Of or relating to mysticism or mystics.


P. 114 this god says that the payoff for working for him…is physical comfort $$$$$$
Luke 4
5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7So if you worship me, it will all be yours."


P. 114 this god says that gods greatest moment is when you realize you need no god.
Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven
2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.



P.115 this god says that your destiny is unavoidable, you cannot not be saved.
Acts 2:21
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'
Revelation 20:15
If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


P. 119 this god says…you should not feel guilty..you were not born into sin.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
John 9:41
Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.







P.124 this god says that the most loving person is the person who is self-centered.
Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me


P. 126 this god says …blessed are the self-centered, because they will know god.
Matthew 5:5
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.


P.127 this god says …be now and forever centered upon yourself
Philippians 2:3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.


P. 127 this god says….it is not in the action of another ..that your salvation will be found.
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."


P. 192 this god says…..”so who said Jesus was perfect?”
1 Peter 1:19
but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Colossians 1:19
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,



P. 196 this god says that…thus will this very book be called blasphemy- the work of the devil.
John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

P. 204 Neale Donald Walsch asks this god…is there reincarnation, how many past lives have I had?
This god answers him….”You have had 647 past lives, this is your 648th----you have been a king, saviour, etc, etc, warrior and a fool.
Hebrews 9:27
Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,


P. 208 Mr. Walsch asks this god…is there life on other planets, have we been visited, are we being observed? This god answers him….YES
Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.













P. 86 Jesus Christ is referred to as a master of wisdom…..on the same level as buddha and krishna.
John 8
24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be,[1] you will indeed die in your sins."
25"Who are you?" they asked.
26"Just what I have been claiming all along," Jesus replied. "I have much to say in judgment of you.
John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
Colossians 1:19
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,




The masters of wisdom are also referred to as the masters of the universe. This is common in esoteric circles of the occult world….of which I have MANY books.

The New Age Movement equates Jesus Christ not as GOD….but as just a master of wisdom…the same as other spiritual leaders that have come and gone.

If you follow down this road….they will have you reading authors such as Blavatsky, Bailey, Crowley, and finally Benjamin Crème.

These books started in the 1930’s and continue on to today….I know….I own most all of them.

They will eventually tell you that since Jesus Christ was only a master….you should not look to him entirely….because the master of masters is finally here on earth. He is currently known as maitreya…..but the esoteric world calls him ‘THE CHRIST’.

He claims that he is the real christ and that Jesus Christ was not the real Christ.
1 John 2
22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--

Matthew 24
23If anyone says to you then, Behold, here is the Christ (the Messiah)! or, There He is!--do not believe it.

Revelation 13
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,…and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.






2 Thessalonians 2
9The coming of the ANTICHRIST will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,


Here is one of the only known pictures of him. He is definitely A antichrist…..time will tell if he is THE antichrist.





Revelation 13:17
so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."



That is where this book leads you to….eventually.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life."

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Romans 10:9-10 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

Luke 18:13
….'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

Matthew 14
30…….. he…. cried out, "Lord, save me!"
31Immediately Jesus reached out his hand ….


He is the only way my friend…….choose wisely.


2 Corinthians 6
2For he says,
"In the time of my favor I heard you,
and in the day of salvation I helped you."[1] I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation

[Ynott]

I thank you lonewolf, but she won't/can't read anything. I've sent her studies, talked with her, copied volumes of literature...Her response?

"But Christian ministers support this."

I can't get her to tell me "which" Christian ministers support this. I sure don't know any!

She thinks the Gnostics were the early church FATHERS!

I need something "easy" and "obvious" from a "known and reliable" perhaps someone she might respect and identify (sure wish Billy Graham had something!) to tell her that she's "out to lunch" here.

She "might" view a videotape (though I've sent her some fictional stuff that she hasn't watched) or listen to a CD or audio tape.

Sending her more studies won't help.

:cry :cry :cry

[DeeLeeKay]

Ynott,

Who told her the Early Gnostics were the Church Fathers?

Maybe then we can get somewhere. Who does she like as a teacher?

This is scarey, I agree with you.

[Ynott]

I have no idea, Donna. Sure wish I did. I pressed her and that is what she said and then clammed up....followed of course by the usual disclaimer, "Honey, you just haven't studied this enough."

Good grief! I spent more than twenty YEARS in the new age movement!

I think this is something she WANTS to believe....She has had a "close call" with death and now fears it....She's looking for an escape hatch.

Which of course makes absolutely NO SENSE WHATSOEVER for a professing Christian who should KNOW where her future is! And yes, I've told her that she is eternal and as a Christian she will go to be with the Father.

She wants to be part of the "elite" with "secret knowledge"....I know the draw. All of us who came out of the New Age know it. But IT IS FALSE AND A LIE!!!

Nothing I say dissuades her....as her daughter, I am "too close" to be believable. Truly, "a prophet is not accepted in his own land"....I'm no prophet, but understand the analogy.

EDITED TO ADD: She listens to any "teacher" that agrees with her. You won't believe who her latest "fave" is: Elizabeth Clare Prophet! :eek Words fail me. I know folks who fled her doomsday cult! But mom says she is accepted by mainline Christians!!!!:eek :eek :eek

I think Mom knows how her words hit me because she clams up when I call her on it. Yes, I told her EXACTLY who Prophet is and what the CUT IS! She refused to believe me. Said I knew nothing at all.

(Pulling hair out in clumps!):tape

[DeeLeeKay]

Ynott,

Becoming like God is fairly intoxicating stuff.

Ask her flat out why she thinks she can become a god?

[Ynott]

That's just it....she "blends" it all together. She truly believes that she is still a Christian with all these "other" beliefs.

Man, years ago, so did I! This is all so "deja vu".

She doesn't think she can become a god. She thinks she needs the additional incarnations to "learn" (something or other).

I told her she had a millennium in which to be a priest/king and then an eternity with God. Of course there is more, but only God knows "the rest of the story" (post millennium and what we'll all be doing). Eternity means FOREVER!

She has no answers....just a laissez fair attitude about the way she "is" a Christian. She thinks she can add the bells and whistles from "wherever" and still have the same basic religion. (She has the DEEE-LUX model, I guess. :rolleyes )

I'm beginning to believe that she knows "another Jesus" (ECP certainly doesn't know MY Jesus....She channeled a whole other entity and "called him Jesus". ) Man, this is upsetting.

To know the truth, to share the truth, to hear someone you love say that they believe it and then deny it all in the same breath! Man......:frusty

[DeeLeeKay]

Ynott,

That is the danger of Gnostic Christianity. It is a blend of The Bible and Babylonian concepts. It gives the appearance of wisdom and life, but is actually death and distruction.

Think about what daughters Babylon is mother of? This is why I do not believe that Rome or Vatican City is the Whore, but is much more pervasive. As in Hinduism, Buddahism, Taoism, etc...


Reincarnation is also a lie, because they think that they will not really die and face judgement.

I know how frustrating it must be. I will be praying for your mother and you. I will pray for wisdom and strenghth for yourself. I will be praying for your mothers eyes to be open to the truth.

[Ynott]

Thanks Donna. This is all so incredibly frustrating.

I appreciate any and all prayers for my Mom. Thank you.

I did my whole Colossians study with HER in mind....I knew some of this, but it is far worse than I thought (with regard to her belief systems).

She has only skimmed the study. I don't know what to do! I know. I know. I can't do anything. It's all in God's hands. This I too believe with all my heart.

But I'm only human and I love my Mom. So, I remain frustrated. :frusty

[blitzkreig]

Ynott here is a link to the download site for Ravi Zacharias ministries. Dr. Zacharias is an extraordinary apologist and very talented speaker. He deals with very tough issues often in a group discussion format with followers of "other belief systems".

He posts his messages in MP3 format for download. They are listed by topic. He has about 150 posted. Each MP3 can be over a 1/2 hour long message if you can get your mother a MP3/DVD player (less than $100) you can fit dozens on a single CD.

But you can also expand these (if you have the tools which are available for free) into standard CD format and burn them for your mother. If you don't know how to do that PM me and I will write a short set of instructions. But you can only fit a couple on a single standard format CD.


RZIM Download page (http://resources.christianity.com/ministries/rzim/main/searchItems.jhtml)

[Ynott]

Thanks, Blitz, I will certainly look into that. I've been thinking about getting an MP 3 player ever since I bought one for my son in college.

It is certainly worth further exploration.

I appreciate the site as well. :):

[Lacmeh]

Well your reasoning is somewhat lacking, Reincarnation is true, not a lie, because you face judgement.
When you die you get reincarnated, depending on your Karma. If that isn´t judgement, then I don´t know what the term "judgement" should mean.

[Ready2BRaptured]

Hi there! I was a former new ager.. big time. THANK GOD I GOT SAVED! If there was any hope of me getting out of it, there is for your Mother too! After I got saved, I had to deal with my sister who is Wiccan, and was shoveling garbage my Mother's way. I found this site: http://cana.userworld.com/cana_home.html
It is called CANA: Christian Answers for the New Age. I contacted Marcia (who runs the site) and she got back to me hours later!! She really helped me out.. try her and the site! God Bless! Donna P.

[Ynott]

Originally posted by Lacmeh

Well your reasoning is somewhat lacking, Reincarnation is true, not a lie, because you face judgement.
When you die you get reincarnated, depending on your Karma. If that isn´t judgement, then I don´t know what the term "judgement" should mean.

Apparantly, you do NOT know what judgment means.

Reincarnation is NOT a Christian concept, it is an eastern concept which filtered into the early church through the corruption of the Gnostics.

I do not mean to sound harsh here, but are you a Christian?

[Paul]

Originally posted by Lacmeh
Well your reasoning is somewhat lacking, Reincarnation is true, not a lie, because you face judgement.
When you die you get reincarnated, depending on your Karma. If that isn´t judgement, then I don´t know what the term "judgement" should mean.

Hi Lacmeh,

If you want to debate reincarnation you're welcome to start a thread about it in Apologetics. This is not the forum for that.

Thanks!

[Hootmon]

Originally posted by blitzkreig
Ynott here is a link to the download site for Ravi Zacharias ministries. Dr. Zacharias is an extraordinary apologist and very talented speaker. He deals with very tough issues often in a group discussion format with followers of "other belief systems".
Dr. Zacharias was raised Hindu, and has a rather unique perspective on these matters.

[Paul]

Originally posted by Hootmon
Dr. Zacharias was raised Hindu, and has a rather unique perspective on these matters.

:thumb

[antsinmypants]

Ynott, I haven't heard of that movement, but Ankerberg has some great stuff on the overall new age movement, on reincarnation and on goddess & earth worship.

He's got something on everything just about it.. and the format he uses is great. He gets their literature and dissects W/the Bible and disproves that way.
Then he goes point by point debating with the top teachers/leaders of the group to find out more & get it out in the open.

I've got Sky Angel, but my dad is always taping things, so I never have a chance to watch it unless he calls me in there and says "ok let's watch tv" -- since he tapes & watches or has it recording when I get home..

I've several of Ankerberg's books, and two or three of the really old tapes on Masonry- and a few other books - but by far his is as informative as going straight to the source (their books).

:thumb :wave

[Lacmeh]

Ynott, I never stated, that the concept of reincarnation is fitting into Christianity.
I wanted to point out, that there is a judgement concept in those belief systems, that include reincarnation. Thus the argument reincarnation=no judgement=false by definition falls apart very easily and leaves the impression, that the information level is not very high. (informing oneself on the tenets of other belief systems is not sinful or forbidden)

I presume, that, if the person in question doesn´t read the books or papers you send, then she wouldn´t watch the videos or play the audio tapes either.
The ore you push towards "I am right and you are wrong", the more entrenched she will become. One of the worst forms in debates is to open with "I am right" attitudes. It gives the impression,t hat the arguments from the other side will be summarily dismissed without further looking into.

[Ynott]

Actually, after more than twenty years within this erroneous movement, I feel quite competent to discourse upon its veracity at the drop of a hat.

This is a Christian board and any arguments with regard to the orthodoxy of the faith belong in apologetics, as Paul has so graciously stated.

I would be more than happy to post my apologetic on reincarnation for you were you to post such a thread over in the apologetics section.

I understand where you are coming from as I was there once myself.

As to how and when I witness, well, I'm sure it would be more comfortable for others to not hear the truth, but I will not succomb to that philosophy. (edited to add: It certainly hasn't stopped you as your philosophy was not invited here. How then should I view your "witness"?)

I do not push my faith on anyone, but when queried (as my mother has done in initiating these concepts), I will answer, fully, truthfully and to the best of my knowledge.

You presume too much in your assumption that I am in any way "badgering" anyone. Perhaps it is you yourself who feels uncomfortable....and once again, I note that it was you who entered this thread voluntarily and not I or anyone else dragging you here.

So, if you do not like our witness, take it to apologetics for debate.

[Ready2BRaptured]

Just give your Mom the scripture!
Absent from the body, present with the Lord!
or.. it is appointed unto man to die once.. I can find the verses for you if you aren't aware of them! Donna P.

[Ynott]

Got'em. Sent'em. She "rewrites"'em.

But I thank you most kindly for your assistance.

I did take the advice of several here and ordered a couple of books to review by Ankerberg and Zacharias.

I will await the orders and see how they are. I know that the Zacharias book is also available on audio tape. So that is certainly an option.

I like to preview stuff first to see if it "fills the need" specifically. I'm sure that both are excellent writers...I'm just looking for some very specific things to be covered....er....revealed.

Y'all have been great! Thanks so much. :thumb

[Ready2BRaptured]

I'm sorry.. it's kind of funny she is re-writing scripture! My sister who is wiccan always says "goddess bless" when someone sneezes.. gotta fight fire with fire. You gave her the Word and it will not return void! Will pray for her and you! My Mother did end up getting saved.. my sister is still way out there.. it's hard! But worth it!!