Why is magic forbidden?

[Magus55]

This topic has always been interesting to me. I used to be into magic and witchcraft, and while I can see a bad side to it if you practice "black" magic, I could see how it could be beneficial too.

The Bible condones sorcery, which is usually associated with evil magic. But what about good magic? Not sure if anyone has seen the show "Charmed", but the witches on the show use supernatural abilities to protect people and battle "demons". There are also "whitelighters" on the show which are part angel, part human and they have the ability to heal. As Christians, we obviously believe in angels, demons and the supernatural. Why are we forbidden to possess any supernatural powers on Earth? Even the Bible says we will possess supernatural abilities in the afterlife, so why not now? I could see a lot more good being done to further God's kingdom with some supernatural assistance. The tools of the natural world on their own, just can't make the kind of difference we'd like it to.

I've been considering being a PA or Doctor, so I think it would be pretty great and helpful to possess a supernatural ability to heal in times when medicine just won't cut it. Why doesn't God want us to be able to help battle demons and evil, while protecting people? Why don't we have a more pronounced part in God's plan to defeat evil and bring humanity to salvation? I try to witness on a daily basis, but I just can't do as much as i'd like to.

Sorry if this is a touchy subject, but i've always been fascinated by the idea of the supernatural. I of course can see why sorcery is forbidden in the Bible. "Black" magic finds its source from evil. But whats wrong with magic through the power of God?

[Mindenite]

Ah ha, I knew Lord of the Rings would come in handy for real life :): The One Ring is usually seen as power, magic is a form of power, human or demonic. It is taking power away from God and using it on your own terms (in the sense of not trusting in God but trusting instead in oneself). Look at Gandalf, he refused the Ring because he knew that even with good intentions, the power would end up corrupting him. The magic in Christianity is the "magic" of prayer. The "magic" of prayer is God, not us. We are the ones praying but God is the one doing. Now, I am not saying that we cannot act and that we should sit back and let God do everything. We need to act but not in such a way that we trust in ourselves rather than or over God. We all have "magic" within us but it is not of us but is the Holy Spirit and where the Holy Spirit guides us.

[BHiles]

There are so many reasons to address here:

The use of magic which by every manner is of satan only serves to give glory to one other than God.

God has given supernatural abilities to the believers called the gifts of the Spirit in which you are used only as a vessel for God to perform his work. There is no magic in angels. There is only God's miracuolous powers to bring glory unto Himself and His goodness that draws sinners to Him. The true miracles that God does are those in which no one can claim to be the worker of the miracle and credit can only be applied to God. God has given specific guidlines for how these things are to be done so He recieves the glory.

Magic focus the strength and power to boast one's self to a greater and greater strength. It is a power grab. It is a power lust that drives one to have "magic powers". It is a satanic deceit that takes the magician/witch in, feeds their pridful lusts and spits them out on the otherside all in an effort to hurt God.

I must strongly admonish anyone who would wish for power to examine their life for the iniquity that would entertain this lust that it is blasphemous and wickedness in every manner and carries with it a curse on your very life if you were to even survive its carnage.

[antsinmypants]

Magnus55,

No matter what anyone tells you, there is no good magick.


The only "magic" that is-- is called sleight of hand.
There are plenty of verses that condemn witches, sorcerers etc..
You just have to go looking.. or ask me to post the "Stay away from evil" verses again. ;):

[blitzkreig]

Where would a person thinks that any "majic" power might come from because it does not from God. I can think of only one place. :tsk

[Jade]

Just my 2 cents

Magic places reliance on man's abilities to control the universe, and not on man's reliance on God.

The power is not from God.




Medicine is a good career choice Magus. You can still heal through Science, with God at your side and the power of prayer. Magic is unreliable.

[Magus55]

Originally posted by Jade
Just my 2 cents

Magic places reliance on man's abilities to control the universe, and not on man's reliance on God.

The power is not from God.I can see how it could be abused. I just always wondered why the supernatural isn't more prevelent in the modern day world, since we accept that it exists. Maybe magic is a poor term. I was thinking for example, if someone healed a sick person through the power of God, and then the patient thanked the person for healing them, say don't thank me, thank God.

I think its just because I feel like I can't help enough in this day and age and i'm trying to think on a bigger scale. I guess it just seems kind of odd being surrounded by the supernatural and spiritual battles between good and evil, but we don't really make much of a difference ( at least it seems like I don't). I know God wants us to rely completely on Him, but He does so much for us, and its hard for us to do anything for Him.

I think i'm trying to understand it more a long the lines of Moses. Moses was the vessel for God's wonders and miracles to be shown to Egypt. Do humans not become a vessel like that anymore because there is no need for those kind of miracles?

These questions are probably bordering on sin or blasphemy though so I think i should go hide in my corner now... :peep




Medicine is a good career choice Magus. You can still heal through Science, with God at your side and the power of prayer. Magic is unreliable. Well, not sure I'll end up doing it. Everyone tells me not to become a doctor, its not worth it these days. And of course, i've been laughed at quite a bit for even considering being a doctor, while not believing that humans are primate descendents.

[Jade]

And of course, i've been laughed at quite a bit for even considering being a doctor, while not believing that humans are primate descendents.
This has nothing to do with medicine, escept for one course you would have to take.

I was thinking for example, if someone healed a sick person through the power of God, and then the patient thanked the person for healing them, say don't thank me, thank God.


WHo said it doesn't go on? God also uses modern medicine to His advantage. It is a well known fact that some doctors have better cure rates than others. Who knows what happens there.

but we don't really make much of a difference ( at least it seems like I don't). I know God wants us to rely completely on Him, but He does so much for us, and its hard for us to do anything for Him.

All in His timing MAgus. You may be in "sleeper" stage at the moment waiting to be used when He is ready for you.

I think i'm trying to understand it more a long the lines of Moses. Moses was the vessel for God's wonders and miracles to be shown to Egypt. Do humans not become a vessel like that anymore because there is no need for those kind of miracles?


There is still a need for miracles, but perhaps no one recognizes them as such.Perhaps as society has changed, God has changed His methods of doing things. This does not say that He changes, only that He has changed His approach with us. Look how Israel has thrived today. Can you tell me miracles have not taken place there?

I don't think questioning God is a blasphemy. Rejecting Him is a blasphemy. Being rebellious is sinful. But questioning Him? I think that is acceptable, otehrwise how would we know Him.

Really tired, I hope this makes sense.

[falen]

I have wondered the same thing.

Especially when there is evidence that the Keys of Solomon and the Enochian rites were revealed by God. The Kabala (sp) is also said to have been revealed by God.

Sometimes I think that maybe we people interpret the Bible incorrectly. That the sorcerers and witches that the Bible refers to are actually those that practice demonic magic. Maybe in the old day there were different words to describe people like the Eqyptians (doing supernatural things in the name of gods) and Moses and Solomon (doing supernatural things in the name of God).

You can't go wrong by erring on the side of caution.

[annie10]

I know this isn't a book of the Bible, put since Jude1: 14 quotes from it, I will mention it here.

Enoch 9:6 Thou seest what Azazel hath done, who hath taught all unrighteousness on earth and revealed the eternal secrets which were (preserved) in heaven, which 7 men were striving to learn:

http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/ot/pseudo/enoch.htm

These secrets in Heaven, are thought by many to be sorcery and witch craft.

[Kyrie Eleison]

Trust in God's power, no other. :nod

Anything else is the doorway to pride, distance from God, and the path to the devil. How do you think satan went from an angel of light to the enemy of God? He wanted control, power, and he tried to grab some, any way he could.

It is a prideful rebellion against God to want to use magic.

If you want to do good, then trust in God and find His will for your life. Nothing could be more perfect or more helpful to others. :thumb

[falen]

Hi,

Thanks

If these secrets were from heaven, then God must have been the source of them since He is the source of all things.

How can they be evil? The evil must come from people's temptation for using them for the not so good. This leads me to think that there must have been different terms for those such as Enoch, Moses, Solomon, who were I guess authorized by God to use these secrets (and to whom the secrets were revealed by God) and those maybe that did not get authorization from God. Sorry about the business-speak, but I cannot think of the right words in a religious sense. Could that be it?

Then going back to Mag's question, if one asks for the power or authorization to heal in God's name, and if one uses the secrets in God's name (the Rites and Keys are published) why would it be wrong? I think Mag has a valid point.

Since I am new here, and there are so many people on this board that know translation glitches, does anyone know if there was any research on the ancient languages and their references to sorcerers. As in conotations in different terms. It may help me clear up my confusion in this and maybe Mag's too.

Thanks

[annie10]

Originally posted by falen
Hi,

Thanks

If these secrets were from heaven, then God must have been the source of them since He is the source of all things.

How can they be evil? The evil must come from people's temptation for using them for the not so good. This leads me to think that there must have been different terms for those such as Enoch, Moses, Solomon, who were I guess authorized by God to use these secrets (and to whom the secrets were revealed by God) and those maybe that did not get authorization from God. Sorry about the business-speak, but I cannot think of the right words in a religious sense. Could that be it?


To answer your question, These secrets where in Heaven, and not meant for man kind, but when the fallen angels, came to earth, they brought with them these secrets, and instructed people about them.

Read the book of Enoch, I have read it several times, and still reading it again. I haven't found anything unbiblical about it. I find that it gets into great detail, about things already revealed in the Bible. Great read also!!

Also in Chapter 48-49 , Enoch also reveals the Son of Man. Jesus :D:

[Medic911]

Satan's sin was "wanting to be like God". The same could be said for Adam and Eve.
Satan rarely appears as blatant evil. Evil is too easy to avoid. Instead, he appears as an 'angel of light'. He doesn't come to us with 'horns and pitchfork'---who would receive him? No, he comes in forms which appear innocent: a beautiful co-worker inviting us to dinner. A 'harmless' movie. "White Magic". Et cetera.
IMHO Magic is condemned by God because it represents mankind trying in vain to emulate His power.

When the disciples healed, they did so in Jesus's name..... not in the name of "magic" (which would've glorified themselves or nature)

[blitzkreig]

One should always be concerned about giving even an inch to such things...


1Ch 10:13-14
(13) Saul died in disobedience, disobedient to GOD. He didn't obey GOD's words. Instead of praying, he went to a witch to seek guidance.
(14) Because he didn't go to GOD for help, GOD took his life and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.


That even goes for Ouija boards too.

[GraceX3]

Okay, my opinion, but I completely disagree that these fallen angels have been able to share any secrets from heaven. God is just too powerful to let that happen. Secrets?!

Someone brought up miracles. I've added this to my prayers, "God please open my eyes and heart to see your wonderful miracles". They happen every day, every moment, everywhere. I'm pretty assured that for me anyway, I'm too busy with my own agenda to slow down and see God's mercy here on earth. It's here alright in more ways than I can begin to count.

Why didn't that semi truck hit my car today, I would of been killed if it did, Thank YOU God for protecting me,

Why hasn't 9-11 happened again? Thank YOU God for protecting us. I'm fully aware that people are plotting ways to make it happen again. It hasn't. Thank You God.

I felt what seemed like a hand lift a razor knife away from my wrist when I was dumb enough to open a box the wrong way. It must of been God's hand. Thank you God!

God is still performing miracles in many, many ways and a lot of them are through people. Instead of wanting to be Moses, etc, how about asking God to let you see some of the wonderful ways he's already using you. I'll bet there are a lot. :):

Oh, I asked a "white witch" what happens when she gets angry at someone..... it turns black.

Great subject Magus. By posting this thread you may of answered a question that someone was asking.

IMHO magic is attempting to take a power that God alone has to use in a way that only the person using it understands. It's attempting to be one up on God by doing what we see is right, instead of trusting that God already knows what and why he's doing or allowing something.


YSIC,

Melanie

[DeeLeeKay]

What we are talking about here is "duality". White witchcraft as opposed to black withcraft. There is no "white" magic. The source is the same for both.

Moses did not bring the Hebrews out of Egypt, God did. God used Moses as a prophet. There is a difference between speaking God's words and them coming to pass and doing rituals that make you think it is YOUR POWER that is doing the miracles.


Miracles are God's power.
Magic is demonic power.

Miracles give God the Glory
Magic gives man the glory.


Can we see a difference here?

Moses was God's servant to show forth GOD'S POWER.
Egyptian Sorcerers were Pharoah's servants to show forth PHAROAH"S POWER.

[annie10]

We read in Acts about Simon, who was using sorcery and magic, and then when he saw the the apostles where healing he wanted that power for himself.


Act 8:9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one

Act 8:10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.

Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Act 8:17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and [in] the bond of iniquity.

Act 8:24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

[2bossy]

This is the whole problem with things like Harry Potter and Sabrina the Teenage Witch. People are trying to make people think that witchcraft is fun and harmless but there are only two kinds of magic. Fake and witchcraft.

[Weng]

During the second episode,Piper spoke with a priest about Magic outside the church and the priest said that in Old testament times,you would be executed. And when Piper tried to enter the church lightning struck signalling a witch like her couldn't enter. But then the next time,she opened the door without difficulty and she was relieved.

They gave absolutely no explanation as to why she was given exemption from the Bible rule.

In my opinion,the show shows that good magic can be used because the White magic comes from a noble source. However,that is not the case. The White magic also comes from Satan. Regarding the good magic vs evil......remember what Jesus said; "What would happen if a country had a civil war? Satan is not stupid to cast out his own demons." I interpret that to also mean that Satan wouldn't allow humans to use magic against demons because he wants unity with humans and demons to further his rule.

Nevertheless,even with "Charmed" and its wrong message about magic,whenever scenes involving Christianity and churches,the producers always try to show positive portrayals of Christianity
:thumb unlike comedies which have NO magic elements at all but always make Christianity look bad. :mad

[2bossy]

Nevertheless,even with "Charmed" and its wrong message about magic,whenever scenes involving Christianity and churches,the producers always try to show positive portrayals of Christianity

Its hard to make christians stumble if they are offended by the show and aren't watching it.