Who will pursue holiness?

[houseparent]

2 Timothy 2
19Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

Have you departed from iniquity? Are there things in your life that are un-Godly? Do others know you're a Christian just by associating with you?

2 Timothy 2
22Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Here the word tells us what we are to pursue and whith whom we are to pursue it!

Why is it so difficult to find those who call on the Lord out of a PURE heart?

[houseparent]

2 Timothy 3


Dangerous Times Are Coming
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.

Dangerous times have ARRIVED!

2 Timothy 3

The Man of God and the Word of God
10 But you have carefully followed my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, love, perseverance, 11persecutions, afflictions, which happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra--what persecutions I endured. And out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

How many of us are persecuted for our beliefs in Christ? Instead how many of us live happy go lucky lives just like the world around us?

2 Timothy 3
13But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,

Time to stop being decieved church!

[Jael]

Because I grew up in a church that emphasized the need to pursue holiness, I didn't understand the attitude you are talking about until fairly recently...and I got another taste of it just a few days ago...

I went to a singles meeting on "Living Single in Christ". The topic eventually focused on purity and what is expected of us. We had a round table discussion where everyone could present their thoughts on the topic...

And when it was my turn, I talked about the fact that living a totally abstinent lifestyle requires full-time dedication... Many people fall into sexual sin, and they think the battle was lost right at the point of temptation, when in reality, the battle was lost much earlier...

The seeds of failure can be sown by our entertainment choices, by a lack of faithfulness in spending time with God, by the thoughts we allow to remain in our minds, the books we read, the movies we watch, the company we keep, the clothes we wear, and on, and on...

So in order to resist the devil in the area of sexual temptation, we have to really submit to God on a day to day basis...I was thinking of the following verse:

Jam 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

I also said that total abstinence is difficult/impossible for most of us to do in our own strength, so we must be totally dependent on God from day to day, and moment to moment, if necessary, to walk in the spirit and mortify the deeds of the flesh. I compared living holy as a single person to the way the children of Israel lived on manna during their sojourn in the desert - because the manna did not keep overnight, they had to faithfully collect enough to live on, every single day (except the sabbath). Whether they felt like it or not, in order to eat, they had to go get the manna. And in order to live obediently as an unmarried person, we have to go to God daily for the strength to walk in the spirit for one more day. Whether we feel like it or not, we need to spend time with God because it's only from Him that we get what we need to face that day's challenges.

I didn't think I said anything so radical, but I was basically shouted down because I suggested that we really are obligated to be obedient...I was told that sexual abstinence was unrealistic, too much to expect of anyone, too legalistic, too difficult...and if we fall, hey no problem! That's what grace is for...

I notice that many people have taken the view that obedience is optional in this age of grace...but it's not. No, we don't earn our salvation by our obedience, but it was to believers that Paul wrote:

2Cr 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

[houseparent]

AMEN Jael....AMEN!

Thank you for that wonderful post! It encourages me greatly and is what I am looking for in this thread!

:laugh

[cameron222]

Jael.....and I know it must feel great to have "standards" and abide by them. Not that it makes one smug nor self righteous, but just knowing that you are doing the right thing and pleasing God is greater than any temporary sin.

God bless your walk. :):

[cindyw]

Originally posted by houseparent
AMEN Jael....AMEN!

Thank you for that wonderful post! It encourages me greatly and is what I am looking for in this thread!

:laugh

I'll second that wonderful Post Jael!!!! What a difference we would make if we followed what you shared..............Thanks!:):

[houseparent]

Welcome Cindy and cameron!

I really want to round up those who seek holiness in this thread. Maybe we can inspire one another in this desire?

What do you say?

[Jael]

Originally posted by cameron222
Jael.....and I know it must feel great to have "standards" and abide by them. Not that it makes one smug nor self righteous, but just knowing that you are doing the right thing and pleasing God is greater than any temporary sin.

God bless your walk. :):

Thanks Cameron, I really do want to please Him. :): Like anyone else, I fall from time to time, but when I stumble, I will at least go down fighting! :nod And I will get up and press on, not try to justify my disobedience...

Phl 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

Phl 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

God bless you too. :):

[Amen]

Excellent thread.

Romans 11
3 "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
4 But what is the divine response to him? "I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.


Glory be to our God Most High!
:dancing

[Chris4Christ]

Originally posted by houseparent
Welcome Cindy and cameron!

I really want to round up those who seek holiness in this thread. Maybe we can inspire one another in this desire?

What do you say?

Dude, are you suggesting that there are those of us that don't seek holiness simply because we have different opinions on certain issues than you? Because I'll tell you unequivocally, you're wrong.

As I tried to explain in the other thread (which is where this thread shot off from), yes, we should strive to be holy, but we can't MAKE other people strive for it as well. We can try to assist others in their walk, and we can pray for them, but we can't make them holy.

[houseparent]

I am not making any kind of judgement. I am however looking for like minded people who WANT to share scriptures and personal experiences that will inspire us to live holy lives.

IMO this is what the church is supposed to do but many do not.

You're right. I can't make you holy and you can't make me holy but as brothers in Christ we can help each other DESIRZE holiness and remain on the path of it.

Right?

[Chris4Christ]

Originally posted by houseparent
I am not making any kind of judgement. I am however looking for like minded people who WANT to share scriptures and personal experiences that will inspire us to live holy lives.
I think many of the people on this board fit this description...regardless of our stance on various topics. ;):

You're right. I can't make you holy and you can't make me holy but as brothers in Christ we can help each other DESIRZE holiness and remain on the path of it.

Right?
True. I can't argue with you there...other than the fact that I'm your sister...not your brother.:B: :laugh

[cameron222]

We can also look to what God's word says rather than formulating our own "opinion" of how things should be.

Our opinion (including mime) is often wrong and needs to be tested by scripture.

For example, the divorce issue is a burning issue in today's churches even though the Word is very clear on the issue.
Divorcees can still experience God's mercy and forgiveness, but if one is willing to believe it and follow it, the problem can be derailed if we follow the owner's manual.

[houseparent]

ther than the fact that I'm your sister...not your brother. :pound

Why did I think you were the MAN in that picture?

[Chris4Christ]

Originally posted by houseparent
:pound

Why did I think you were the MAN in that picture?
I don't know...you aren't the first!:laugh Maybe I should change my name to Christine4Christ.:nod :B:

[Chris4Christ]

Originally posted by cameron222
We can also look to what God's word says rather than formulating our own "opinion" of how things should be.
I've never thought otherwise.

[houseparent]

Maybe because you called me dude?:nod

[cameron222]

So did I Chris......you guys are a lovely couple....:):

[cameron222]

Dude and dudette.....:nod

[Chris4Christ]

Originally posted by cameron222
So did I Chris......you guys are a lovely couple....:):

Boy, I REALLY need to change my user name. ;):

Thanks, Cameron.


(And I'm from Philly...that's probably where the "dude" comes from.:laugh)

[houseparent]

PHILLY?

Wow...I am from a small town near Reading Pa. Over half the kids I work with are from Philly.

[Amen]

Romans 14

1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.
2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.
3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

1 Thessalonians 5:14
We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone.

:nod

[houseparent]

Amen...Amen:twitch ;):

[Ponderin]

This reminds me of our call to return to holiness (AGAIN)


. . . Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord," will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my father who is in heaven."


This is a frightening thought to know there are people who will hear those words.

There are people who believe they are following what they believe is Christ who will one day hear those words. A Church that is looking outside God's word is heading for certain dicipline if not certain punishment, if not repentant and returning to holiness. God disciplines His children and punishes the wicked.

Sadly enough casual Christians are an easy target for Satan, as well. As Christians we are to Pray and study God's word daily, be a verbal witness, exercise our gifts and deal with strongholds in our lives as we passionately seek God and obey His sure word.

Dr Gregory Frizzell list seven indicators of real salvation in his book "Returning to Holiness".

1. Genuine Christians testify to a real and personal relationship with Christ. More than believing the facts, it is knowing God in a life changing relationship.

2. Saved people have experienced genuine conviction of sin and trust Christ alone for eternal salvation. We are drawn to Christ by His Holy Spirit and must be personally convicted of sin.

3. Genuine Christians posses a supernatural assurance they are saved and forgiven of sins. Doubts are overshadowed with prevailing peace.

4. Children of God exhibit a hunger for spiritual growth and a strong dsesire to turn from sin. Willful sin makes saved people utterly miserable.

5. Genuine Christians sense God's presence and hear His voice in their life. If the word of God does not make any sense, one never hears from God, nor desire for prayer it is an indicator one does not know the Savior.

6. True Christian have a love for the Church and the people of God

5. Most saved people can describe a "before and after" in terms of their Salvation. Our lives are being transformed by God in us.

[houseparent]

Thanks Ponderin!!

I'll look for that book.

[Ponderin]

You are welcome.

I can assure you, you will not be dissapointed!


:):

[cindyw]

Originally posted by Chris4Christ
yes, we should strive to be holy, but we can't MAKE other people strive for it as well. We can try to assist others in their walk, and we can pray for them, but we can't make them holy.

This is true Chris. None of us can make someone BE holy (in their heart)----only conviction of the Holy Spirit and a surrendered heart and life can accomplish this---as Jael spoke of. What we can do is hold to biblical standards, conduct and church discipline----which should produce Godly behavior. If it does not: then the unrepentant is removed from fellowship until they repent. Then they are fully restored, sin remembered no more. This is what Jesus and is also was Paul taught-------confrontation, if unrepentant, more confrontation, if still unrepentant---public disclosure with disfellowshipping. Restoration with repentance. Paul even taught the reason for disfellowshipping----to shame the person (II Thess. 3). I've NEVER seen any of this practiced------has anyone here?

What I have seen are some attitudes like this: this is MY life and it's none of your business how I handle MY SIN. Those types sure would have had a major problem with Paul. Those who think your out in the open sin is no one's business in the Church------YOU do not understand the Body of Christ then. SIN hurts the whole Body-----no out in the open, in your face sin, is "personal"...........Whether you're a celebrity or on the PTA and everyone knows you're a Christian.

Personally, I feel that sin is running amuck and not being dealt with in Churches by leaders (no biblical discipline/ public repentance/restoration). Don't want to offend anyone...... Don't want to lose those tithes.......That is what has caused many to RUN from Church----the place which used to be a haven FROM sin and a place of healing and restoration, not a haven FOR sin, sickness and death.............That is why so many of us HUNGER for HOLINESS to be taught and practiced in the Church. We want to see JESUS and the POWER of Jesus lifted up. JMHO for what it's worth. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy:):

[tractsforchrist]

Mmm........... I look at that list of the characteristics of saved people.................

:cry :pout :cry

:cry
:cry
Read my list below........This just depresses me further........

I will say my church does discipline by not allowing church membership to practicing homosexuals/living with boyfriend. They are still alowed to go to church......

My question are those people out of fellowship? Are those people not saved?<--I am not one of those who is practicing that kind of sin

[Chris4Christ]

Originally posted by tractsforchrist
I will say my church does discipline by not allowing church membership to practicing homosexuals/living with boyfriend. They are still alowed to go to church......

My question are those people out of fellowship? Are those people not saved?<--I am not one of those who is practicing that kind of sin.
Well, they are out of fellowship if they are removed from fellowshipping within the church. IMO, withholding membership doesn't really seem to me to be removing fellowship if they are still welcome to attend church.

As far as their salvation, they are not necessary "not saved," but it is possible that they are not. It's hard to know, really. But the Lord knows, which is all that matters, and hopefully He will speak to their hearts.

[Amen]

Originally posted by tractsforchrist
Mmm........... I look at that list of the characteristics of saved people.................

:cry :pout :cry

:cry
:cry
Read my list below........This just depresses me further........

I will say my church does discipline by not allowing church membership to practicing homosexuals/living with boyfriend. They are still alowed to go to church......

My question are those people out of fellowship? Are those people not saved?<--I am not one of those who is practicing that kind of sin

Hey, the Lord will take care of you. We who are in Christ are all being "grown up", by Him too.
Philippians 1:6
For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

[blitzkreig]

Unlike many activities Christians can do, or encourage, or make accountable with oneanother,... I do think holy living is a solitary act. Either one is convicted and led by God to it... or not. It would be a difficult thing to do without God's leading.

Now that said the Church leadership should be giving proper instructions and well... leadership.

Jael your post is pretty telling of society, even Christian society today. When you say you were "shouted down" that was a reflection, really a defense mechanism, of their own feelings of guilt. Don't take it personally.

From the "Message" translation:

Mat 7:22 I can see it now--at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, 'Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.'
Mat 7:23 And do you know what I am going to say? 'You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don't impress me one bit. You're out of here.'

[cindyw]

Originally posted by tractsforchrist
I will say my church does discipline by not allowing church membership to practicing homosexuals/living with boyfriend. They are still alowed to go to church......

My question are those people out of fellowship? Are those people not saved?<--I am not one of those who is practicing that kind of sin

Hi Tracts,

Disfellowshipping if for believers----those who CALL themselves Christian. If they are not Christian, then they need to know that they are sinners and need Jesus. If they claim to know Jesus, yet walk unrepentantly in sin, they need to be disfellowshipped until they repent so as not to influence the Body----because sin unchecked WILL influence the Body of Christ with EVIL EFFECTS as I Cor. 5:13.

Also, don't fret. Stay close to Lord and walk in obedience. HE will perfect you as you submit to Him. If you have areas which are hard to submit (we all got them, not matter HOW MATURE), pray diligently for the heart to obey----He will give it to you. Also pray that He sends strong believers into your life to disciple you-----ones who are transparent, ones who WILL rebuke you when you go astray (as a loving parent would to their beloved child), ones who will encourage you to stand watch for all the things the Lord is doing in your life that you may miss if you don't watch. Ones who will love you when you stumble, help you back up and get you back on track..........

As for the rapture.........I'm a postie......you can lean on me or Painkiller actually would be the better choice.......he's got supplies like you wouldn't believe........now, if we can only find his bunker........

j/k Tracts. The LORD will take you through whatever comes down the road. Trust that with all your heart. It is true. Stay under His covering though....... Blessings in Jesus, Cindy:):

[yankeedownsouth]

Originally posted by cindyw
What we can do is hold to biblical standards, conduct and church discipline----which should produce Godly behavior. If it does not: then the unrepentant is removed from fellowship until they repent. Then they are fully restored, sin remembered no more. This is what Jesus and is also was Paul taught-------confrontation, if unrepentant, more confrontation, if still unrepentant---public disclosure with disfellowshipping. Restoration with repentance. Paul even taught the reason for disfellowshipping----to shame the person (II Thess. 3). I've NEVER seen any of this practiced------has anyone here?



Cindy - Actually, I have seen this. Not in our actual church, but in our home team. We had a male member who was living in a terrible sin and would not change his ways. The men in our group went to him twice to confront him. The second time, they told him he couldn't come back to our home team unless he changed his ways. It was the hardest thing they've done (they said), and the sad thing is that he hasn't changed. We still pray for him though and he knows he's always welcome back once he gets back on track.

Originally posted by cindyw
If they claim to know Jesus, yet walk unrepentantly in sin, they need to be disfellowshipped until they repent so as not to influence the Body----because sin unchecked WILL influence the Body of Christ with EVIL EFFECTS as I Cor. 5:13.

You're right about them influencing the body. This man in our home team is struggling with sexual sin, and it really had a negative effect on my husband. Unfortunately, my husband is easily influenced by those around him, and I didn't like the way this man affected him at all. I was so thankful that our home team leader took care of this issue Biblically.

[cindyw]

Good for your home team Dawn:thumb I know discipline is hard, but as you've shown, it's necessary to protect others, if the person is unrepentant. Hopefully, the biblical actions taken by your group will help the man and he will be able to be restored.....Blessings sis, Cindy:):

[antsinmypants]

What we can do is hold to biblical standards, conduct and church discipline----which should produce Godly behavior. If it does not: then the unrepentant is removed from fellowship until they repent. Then they are fully restored, sin remembered no more. This is what Jesus and is also was Paul taught-------confrontation, if unrepentant, more confrontation, if still unrepentant---public disclosure with disfellowshipping. Restoration with repentance. Paul even taught the reason for disfellowshipping----to shame the person (II Thess. 3). I've NEVER seen any of this practiced------has anyone here?


Yes, at two churches we attended, one in Spain, one in Texas- and this is currently an issue at the Synogogue I attend right now.

:thumb

[houseparent]

I was just telling my wife last night after going off line that this discipline is EXACTLY what is missing.

However, do you think LARGE church's are capable of this? I mean church's where there are so many many members never even meet one another!

This is one more example for me as to why "Super Churches" may not be a great idea.

[cindyw]

Originally posted by houseparent
This is one more example for me as to why "Super Churches" may not be a great idea.

I agree.........unless there is a very good home program in which accountability and discipline is practiced..........which will then be taken to the LARGER body......very hard to do though.

[yankeedownsouth]

Originally posted by cindyw
I agree.........unless there is a very good home program in which accountability and discipline is practiced..........which will then be taken to the LARGER body......very hard to do though.

I agree. Although we have accountability in our home group, I know other groups don't. Also, this accountability does not extend to the church as a whole. While there are accountability groups and such, I can't imagine the pastor ever telling someone they're expected to change before coming back to services. The pastor does not get involved in the everyday life of our church members. There are simply too many of us.


This is one more example for me as to why "Super Churches" may not be a great idea.

I agree. And our church isn't even a super church. Simply a large church with typical Sunday attendence of about 1200.

[houseparent]

So, is 1200 too big in your opinion?

[yankeedownsouth]

Originally posted by houseparent
So, is 1200 too big in your opinion?

I don't really know. I think 1200 is really quite big. But our church has home teams, and I really consider my home team my church. My church is a pupose-driven church ( :(: ), so I think that many of its problems stem from this and not necessarily the number of people. I do know that when we joined the church 4 years ago, it was much smaller and more intimate.

In my heart, I feel that this is too big. I don't think churches should be about numbers. I'd prefer to be in a smaller church.

I know that doesn't really answer your question, but it's the best I can do.

Good thread!!!

[Robin]

"Keep (guard) your heart with all diligence, for out of it spring the issues of life. Put away from you a deceitful mouth, and put perverse lips far from you. Let your eyes look straight ahead, and your eyelids look right before you. Ponder the path of your feet, and let all your ways be established. Do not turn to the right or the left; remove your foot from evil." Proverbs 4:23-27


"But they mingled with the Gentiles and learned their works; they served their idols, which became a snare to them." Psalm 106:35-36

"I will set nothing wicked before my eyes; I hate the work of those who fall away; it shall not cling to me. A perverse heart shall depart from me; I will not know wickedness." Psalm 101:3-4

A wonderful Psalm to personalize and pray thru is Psalm 119.

[trillabodilla]

Anybody who is truly a born-again believer, the Holy Spirit dwells within, and that person will always want to live a holy life, because of the divine nature that God has placed there.

But we don't have to try to be holy. There's nothing we can do to achieve holiness.

Even as we can't achieve salvation without faith in what Christ did for us at the cross, we also can't achieve sanctification without faith in Jesus' atoning death on the cross.

Christ had to be holy for us. We couldn't do it.

When we are In Christ, he imputes holiness to us. Our standing with God is "holy" because we are In Christ.

When we keep our faith in the cross of Christ, the Holy Spirit will work in our lives, and holiness will come.

If we try to achieve holiness within our own strength, we forfeit the help of the Holy Spirit, and we are *toast.*

[blitzkreig]

trillabodilla I agree. But I think there may be such a thing as "swimming with the stream instead of cross-current".

I am in the middle of a lengthy philosophical study regarding the "Will".

The will is totally subject the prior "cause" which is the "inclination baked right in the genes of man in their Soul to sin" (the greater immediate desire of pleasure as opposed to somewhat far off reward in Heaven as an example) but the Soul is in turn totally subject to and may be "over-ridden" by a much greater "moral motive". This "moral motive", if it be "good", surely can not come from any other source but God. It is just not in our nature to do otherwise.

There is, however, an aspect which may well be under the power of man to "assist" in all of this... and that is Knowledge. (as I say I am only part way through my study and consideration of this interesting issue so I may yet come eventually to a different conclusion).

That said, if a person does not have "Wisdom" they can not call upon God for Grace to overcome with this greater "moral motive". So a person who is solid in the Word has a much greater likelihood of living Holy...

Hope that makes some sense.

EDIT to say that I'm pretty sure that makes no sense at all :rofl

[houseparent]

trillabodilla:

While this is ultimately true, it canbe very misleading. Too many Christians today sit back and wait for something "magical" to happen in their lives.

They have been lead to believe that all one has to do is accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and everything else will come natural.

We cannot make ourselves holy, this is true! But we can indeed aid the Spirit in ur lives by the way in which we live.

If this were not the case we would have no need for the scriptures. All we would need is the salvation message. Any further instructions from that point would be useless. Just accept Christ and the Holy Spirit will enable you to live as you should.

If this is true, why do so many believers in Christ live just like non-believers?

2 Peter 1


Making One's Calling and Election Sure

3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Here Peter tells us that we have to make an effort. We don't just sit back and "claim" the blessing.

If you are not saying that we simply "claim" it then forgive me. Many people see it this way and is part of my daily frustration with believers.

[houseparent]

if a person does not have "Wisdom" they can not call upon God for Grace to overcome with this greater "moral motive". So a person who is solid in the Word has a much greater likelihood of living Holy...

EXACTLY!

[Jael]

Originally posted by trillabodilla
Anybody who is truly a born-again believer, the Holy Spirit dwells within, and that person will always want to live a holy life, because of the divine nature that God has placed there.

But we don't have to try to be holy. There's nothing we can do to achieve holiness.

Even as we can't achieve salvation without faith in what Christ did for us at the cross, we also can't achieve sanctification without faith in Jesus' atoning death on the cross.

Christ had to be holy for us. We couldn't do it.

When we are In Christ, he imputes holiness to us. Our standing with God is "holy" because we are In Christ.

When we keep our faith in the cross of Christ, the Holy Spirit will work in our lives, and holiness will come.

If we try to achieve holiness within our own strength, we forfeit the help of the Holy Spirit, and we are *toast.*

I agree that we cannot achieve holiness in our own strength...

1Th 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Clearly, we can do nothing apart from Him - it is God who sanctifies us. However I disagree with your assertion that holiness requires no effort on our part. Our spirits are holy now, if we are born again - in our hearts we desire to please God. But our flesh is not saved, it wants to satisfy its lusts and does not mind sinning to do so. There is a constant tug of war, between my spirit, which wants to yield to the Spirit of God and my flesh, which wants to follow its own lusts:

Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Every day, each of us decides whether we will walk in the spirit or walk after the flesh. Over and over again, we are enjoined to reject the works of the flesh and walk uprightly...this does not happen automatically. God has given me His Spirit and He is working in me to will and to do of His good pleasure, but I have still have a will of my own, and I can choose to walk in sin...

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Even though I am God's workmanship, "created in Christ Jesus unto good works", if I let it, sin will have free reign in my mortal body, because my flesh is not yet saved. Note this is not a promise, but a command: "Do not let sin reign". We are promised that sin shall not have dominion over us (no legal authority), but we can choose to let it reign in us (control us), if we walk after the flesh.

Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

We have to yield our members as servants to righteousness...yielding refers to our will. If this happened automatically at salvation, there would be no need for Paul to command us to do it.

Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Notice that we have to follow holiness...it doesn't just overtake us...

2Cr 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

In every temptation, God has already provided everything I need to be victorious. He has made me a new creature in Christ, He has given me His Spirit, He is working in me to will and do of His good pleasure...He provides a way of escape so that I can bear it, He has given me His Son to intercede for me, He has promised I have free access to the throne of grace to find help when I need it, He has given me the weapons of spiritual warfare and the armor of God...

With all of that, I still have the freedom to choose to disobey. James described temptation this way:

Jam 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Jam 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Notice that we are enticed to sin. For the believer, sin is not a rapist, it is a seducer. It cannot force us, we have to yield...And over and over we are told not to yield to sin, but to yield to righteousness. This is something we each have to do, every day.

[blitzkreig]

Here is a simple "test" to apply to the "self" which "might" bare some fruit.

Make God top-of-mind. The very first thing you think about on rising. Think of Him while brushing your teeth and Praise Him when you are humming to yourself in the shower. On your drive to work turn off that radio and recollect favourite songs of worship or Scripture.

While working keep Him in mind... and at your lunch maybe do a bit of reading in the Word.

After supper either read some Christian study material or finish that reading you started early in the day within the Word itself.

Repeat that for three weeks without missing a day... not even once.

They say it takes three weeks to make or break a habit.

All that and a bunch of prayer to support you in living a Holy life might make an impact... can't possibly hurt that's for sure.


(why do I have this irresistible urge to say "rinse and repeat"... :rofl)

[houseparent]

Jeremiah 2
13 "My people have committed two sins:
They have forsaken me,
the spring of living water,
and have dug their own cisterns,
broken cisterns that cannot hold water.

[GloryBound]

Originally posted by Jael
Because I grew up in a church that emphasized the need to pursue holiness, I didn't understand the attitude you are talking about until fairly recently...

I was taught by my parents to pursure holiness. But 20-30 years ago, I had a hard time finding Christian friends who were like-minded. "Holiness" was a bad word to them, and any mention of that word got you shouted down. The politically correct "christian" attitude was that God "knows that we are human" and He "understands our problems". Oh, I do believe that He does understand us, but to them it was an excuse to continue in sin with absolutely no repentance.

Unless you've been there, done that, it's hard to understand feeling so alone in church, not having someone to share with. Keeping my mouth shut about my love of God and my desire to be like Him IN CHURCH because I didn't feel like dealing wtih criticism that day. And I even tried going from church to church for a while, but they were all the same.

But I really think that God is now separating out the "church" of Laodocea from the true church. It's easier to find people like me. I really LOVE this board.

[houseparent]

Unless you've been there, done that, it's hard to understand feeling so alone in church, not having someone to share with. Keeping my mouth shut about my love of God and my desire to be like Him IN CHURCH because I didn't feel like dealing wtih criticism that day. And I even tried going from church to church for a while, but they were all the same.

I understand you COMPLETELY!

[houseparent]

What do you all think of this?

In A.W. Tozer's book, "I Talk Back to the Devil". In the 6th chapter he says, "Paul knew something that many Christians still have not learned - that the human heart is idolatrous and will worship anything it can possess... Whatever we refuse to surrender and count as loss we will ultimately worship."

[blitzkreig]

Originally posted by houseparent
What do you all think of this?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In A.W. Tozer's book, "I Talk Back to the Devil". In the 6th chapter he says, "Paul knew something that many Christians still have not learned - that the human heart is idolatrous and will worship anything it can possess... Whatever we refuse to surrender and count as loss we will ultimately worship."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Isa 64:6-9
(6) For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

(7) There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities.

(8) But now, O LORD, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.

(9) Do not be angry beyond measure, O LORD, Nor remember iniquity forever; Behold, look now, all of us are Your people.

[trillabodilla]

I know that Christ's work on the cross is a finished work, and He has already done everything that needed to be done to save us, heal us, cleanse us, and sanctify us. We cannot add to that.

The only fight we have, is the good fight of faith, to keep our faith and eyes on Him.

Our becoming Holy will be a work of the Spirit. The things that trouble us, will-some right off, some more slowly, fall off. "Sin shall not have diminion over you." Romans 6:14 Not that we'll ever reach sinless perfection, until the trump sounds. But we no longer are ruled over by our sin natures, and all the ugliness it can bring.

We are to rest in that. That's sanctifying peace.

[Jael]

Originally posted by trillabodilla
I know that Christ's work on the cross is a finished work, and He has already done everything that needed to be done to save us, heal us, cleanse us, and sanctify us. We cannot add to that.

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Originally posted by trillabodilla
The only fight we have, is the good fight of faith, to keep our faith and eyes on Him

Well, let's see what the good fight of faith is really all about...

For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

1Ti 6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1Ti 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

The good fight of faith includes fleeing from evil and choosing righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. The good fight of faith includes the pursuit of holiness.

[houseparent]

Once again, GREAT post Jael!

trillabodilla;

May I humbly ask if you ar charasmatic or penticostal?