Seeing Dead Relatives

[Ynott]

In a recent telephone conversation with my parents, my Dad told me that he had seen my brother (who died last year). He was sleeping and he "felt" Lee's presence in the room. He woke up and for the briefest moment he saw Lee (his smiling face only), encircled in heavenly light.

Dad said that Lee didn't look like Lee, but he knew it was him.

I reminded him that when Jesus appeared, that they didn't recognize Him either.

I asked what was different and at first he couldn't decide. I asked if Lee's head was smaller (Lee had hydrocephaly and his head was about 2 1/2 times the size of a normal head). He shouted, "Yes! That's it. Lee's head was NORMAL!)

I smiled and said, "See! Lee is God's perfect Lee now...And He's happy and at peace."

My father and mother miss him so much.

My Grandmother saw my Grandfather too after he passed. He came back and stood at the foot of her bed with a big scowl on his face (Grandpa was a HUGE Christian. Grandmother was...shall we say..."less" than charitable during her lifetime). It upset her greatly.

So, what do you all think? A gift from heaven? A dream? A comforting fanciful projection?

[frisian1970]

My belief is that it is a dream. Is there any scipture insisting that one could see the dead ?

[Ynott]

The only one I know of is when they used the Witch of Endor (I think) to call back the prophet, so someone could counsel with him.

My Dad didn't "call" my brother back, so no comparison....

I don't know except that it comforted my Dad and made my Mom sad (because she would so love to see Lee again).

[annie10]

Ynott, if you remember the witch of Endor, really had no ability, remember she screamed and was shocked about the appirition. God had sent him.

Maybe God sent your brother back, to comfort your father, so that he would know he is ok.

But it could have also been a dream. But you never know!!!

If this apparition, has glorified God, and your father is glorifying God for this. I don't see anything wrong with it.

To God be all the Glory! :):

[cameron222]

Be careful here!!

(Detestable Practices)
Deuteronomy chpt 18
9 When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. 10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [1] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, 11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD , and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. 13 You must be blameless before the LORD your God

[annie10]

Cameron you are right, we should never consult the dead. But I don't think that's what Ynott's father was doing.

I remember a week after my father died, I sware I heard him yelling for me. But I paid it no attention. Because of the verses you quoted.
:D:

[cameron222]

It is a little strange Annie.

I heard my dad mention a few times about a brother that died when he was a kid and one night he turned over in bed and there he was. He said he reached out to touch him and he disappeared.

I am also reminded that on the mount of transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus and the disciples, Peter, James and John recognized them....though they had never seen them before, and as far as we know, there were no photographs or movies of these men around at that time.......:confused

[cameron222]

Maybe you scholars could help me out here, but I once heard Jerry Falwell say that David had a child that died and somewhere it states that he said.....I can go to him but he can't come to me.

Anyone have that verse?

[StarVoyager]

II Samuel 12:16-23


16. David therefore pleaded with God for the child, and David fasted and went in and lay all night on the ground.
17. So the elders of his house arose and went to him, to raise him up from the ground. But he would not, nor did he eat food with them.
18. Then on the seventh day it came to pass that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead. For they said, "Indeed, while the child was alive, we spoke to him, and he would not heed our voice. How can we tell him that the child is dead? He may do some harm!"
19. When David saw that his servants were whispering, David perceived that the child was dead. Therefore David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?"
And they said, "He is dead."
20. So David arose from the ground, washed and anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. Then he went to his own house; and when he requested, they set food before him, and he ate.
21. Then his servants said to him, "What is this that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive, but when the child died, you arose and ate food."
22. And he said, "While the child was alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, "Who can tell whether the LORD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
23. But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

Hope this helps.

Patrick ><>

[cameron222]

Thanks Pat!! :):

[Ynott]

Well, no divination here. Don't know what it was, but if you knew the circumstances of my brother's death, you would believe (perhaps) that this was a vision (which we are told IS biblical) to bring my parents peace.

No words. A brief moment of happiness. Just Peace.

If it was a vision from God, (and many of us have had end times dreams and visions) then it did its job....my parents were comforted.

I guess we won't know until we get there.

[Woodworker]

Interesting thread. When my great grandmother died, my mother saw her spirit, which stopped and looked upon her one last time before heading on to be with the Lord. (G-Gma was a very Christian woman).

"But now he is dead; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me."

I think what David is saying here, when viewed in context, is that upon death he will go to where his child is, but while he's still living his son will not come back to him. I don't see this as him saying he can see how his son is doing in the after life.

I am not saying that God could not have let your father see and be comforted, there is not limit to what our Lord can do. I am saying be very careful.

With Love,
William

[cayte]

I think it is possible, if God feels that it is necessary, that a person could see a loved one who has died in a vision, dream or just there. Probably as a way to bring peace or strength. The reason why I think this, after reading your posts, is I thought of how Jesus saw Moses and Elijah in the Garden. He was going through much trauma at the time, major stress levels there, and perhaps, as encouragement or a sense of peace, Moses and Elijah were sent to Him. So anything is possible with God, that is also in the Bible. So I agree with some of the other posters, if what your parents saw brought them peace, then maybe that is what God felt they needed, for whatever reason. Only He knows why they would see what they saw, so perhaps they or you will, if you are concerned, ask Him when you see Him up there.

[chrislb]

People always throw out the word "visions." Didn't "visions" in the Bible always relate to prophecy and the individual always knew it was from God?

So when people post, "i had a vision last night about the end of the world," wouldn't it be more appropriate to say, " i had a dream last night" since no one can really say, I know for 100% sure that God sent me a vision of the world ending?

[Ynott]

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

I don't know any where in the Bible that explains exactly what a "vision" is. (I've always thought of a vision as a "waking dream" from God.)

But we are promised that we shall have visions, dreams and prophecy in the last days.

[chrislb]

The prophecy quoted from joel is a prophecy spoken about the nation of israel and was fulfilled through the jews in the book of acts. though we can take historical and inspiritational truths from joel, it is nevertheless a book written for the nation of israel.

Look at the verses. What was poured upon all flesh? His spirit, praise God, we have His spirit.

But who was the visions for? This was directed at the nation of Israel.

I'm not saying the church wasn't promised visions, but you find proof of it out of those verses. Perhaps there may be something in I Cor. 12 and 14..since those are the gifts of the body of Christ.

[Ynott]

Acts is a New Testament work and specifically points to the Last Days. I do not understand your difficulty here.

Do you think that this has been fulfilled?

When did the Last Days happen....Why didn't anyone tell me?

[chrislb]

The church age is considered "the last days." It started at pentacost and runs through til the second coming (unless you're pre-trib as myself-then it runs through til the rapture).

Do you not see how joel is a prophecy regarding the nation of israel and not the church?

[Ynott]

mmmmm....no, I don't.

I'm not saying that it can't be for both though. It seems to me that if it were "solely" for Israel that it wouldn't be appearing in Acts as well....The New Testament was written for the CHURCH.

[chrislb]

The reason, I would say (and hopefully at some point our other brothers and sisters can give input to), that Acts includes this is that there is a progression in the book of Acts. Key verse of Acts is found in 1:8. It lists the progression of the spread of the gospel.

First preached in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and uttermost parts of the earth. Notice the progession. From Jews, to half jew-half gentile, and then to gentile. Remember, Christ came first to the jew, then to the gentile.
Also remember that the Bible says that the Jew required a sign. This is what we have in the first several chapters of Acts. The gospel presented to the Jews and the apostles receiving visions.

So ultimately since the gospel first had to be preached in jerusalem and judea first, you shouldn't be surprised that it appears in Acts with Peter preaching...to the jews.

[Ynott]

I'll be honest and say here that you are the first person who has ever told me that this verse has been totally fulfilled and is not for our time (as well).

But I will be interested in hearing others' opinions on this. I like to learn.

[chrislb]

The verse is not totally fulfilled b/c Christ has not came, so i'm not saying that. I am saying, and back to the original subject, that churches and individuals misuse the term "vision" way too much, and in a way that it didn't occur in the Bible. That thought is what got us on our little tangent.

I'll be the first to admit that I have no verses claiming that the church cannot have visions, but today, it is definately not in the norm as some denominations would have us believe. Pleasure chatting with you, Ynott. Hopefully others will hop into this as well.

[chrislb]

first person who has ever told me that this verse has been totally fulfilled and is not for our time (as well).

Sorry, just to elaborate. What I actually said was that this verse was speaking to the nation of Israel. Therefore, not directly to the church.

Has nothing to do with "not for our time."

edited to add: This verse will ultimately be fulfilled in the Tribulation period.

[Ynott]

Thanks for the clarification Chris. I agree with you.

I also am concerned with the rampant use of "visions, dreams, prophecy" that exists in the churches today.

I haven't met a "prophet for today" yet...and don't believe I will.

I would never attribute any vision or dream to the Lord...But I might say that "I had a rapture dream"....It could just as easily be my DESIRE that gave it to me.

If it doesn't line up with scripture, I give it a wide "pass".

It's always interesting chatting with you too, Chris.

[Timothy]

Allow me to provide an alternate perspective on Acts 2.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel

See Joel 2:28 - 3:17. By "This is that" he is referring to something that was actually occuring right then and there in the preceding verses. Clearly, Joel's prophecy was starting to take place.

Acts 2:17-18 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy

According to Joel's prophecy, in the last days all of those things would start to occur. Is there scripture mentioning that all of the things listed in verses 17-18 were occuring during Acts 2? Yes. So that part of Joel's prophecy was starting to take place, and therefore, at that time, the last days were starting. The prophecy of Joel continues:

Acts 2:19-20 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come

Did these things things in verses 19-20 occur in Acts? No. Why? After the final rejection of the kingdom by the stoning of Stephen, God paused the prophetic program (and the last days). There was a three fold rejection of the kingdom by Israel: John, Christ, Stephen. The prophetic kingdom was temporarily set aside, paused. God saved Paul on the road to Damascus and revealed to him the mystery (secret, which was not prophesised), and ushered in the dispensation of grace, the gospel of grace, etc. After the rapture (revealed to Paul), the "last days" of Joel's prophecy will begin once again. But this digresses from the original topic.

As far as the original topic, there's no scriptural justificaiton that communication between the dead and the living takes place. Someone already brought up the same passage that I thought of in II Samuel regarding the witch of Endor. As we all know that spiritism and attempting to conjure the dead is forbidden in scripture.

Ynott, one of your replys was that "no conjuring" was involved in the story you mention, and the implication was that II Samuel really does not relate. Keep in mind something related to II Samuel, though. Technically speaking, the witch had absolutely nothing to do with the communication between Saul and Samuel. God made it happen. The witch normally communicated with a "familiar spirit" (demon), and she shrieked when Samuel "appeared." If it is scripturally wrong from the living to consult the dead, then it would follow that the opposite is also true. Note Samuel's stinging rebuke of Saul.

As we all know, when loved one's are lost, the emotions and imaginations of the living can run strong if unchecked by scripture.

[Edit: fixed bad wording - changed it to "God made it happen."]

[CaptainRoboT2]

Witch of Endor

http://www.barbaraling.com/starwars/yoda.jpg

[prairiedog]

1. When I was a teen, my mother confided that she had an argument with her dad & never spoke to him for a month. Then he died suddenly & she was broken-hearted because she lost her chance to reconcile with him. I don't know if he was saved. He died before my birth, & he was an alcoholic & non-religious.

Several months after she told me this, I had a dream about grandpa. There was a mist on the ground separating us & he asked me to tell my mom that he loved her & forgave her. And I did.

2. The morning after my dad died, (before I found out) I felt a presence standing behind me as I was getting ready for the day. I felt that it was him & he was telling me goodbye. Then I rec'd confirmation of the bad news.

3. My former college roommate whom I had not seen in 11 yrs was killed in a car crash. She has a star in her crown of gold because she was instrumental in leading me to Christ. One afternoon, I suddenly became drowsy & could not stay awake so I took a nap. She was standing next to my bed & looked like she did when we were young women. She wore a red jacket & blue jeans. She told me she was in heaven & came to say goodbye. Then she hugged me & I FELT it! Her clothing changed to white robes & she disappeared into a mist that sucddenly showed up.
I called her sister & asked her what my friend was wearing at the time of the accident. Her answer was: a red jacket & blue jeans!

4. One morning a few months ago, before I woke up I heard my late mother calling my name. It was so real that I ran down the hall looking for her.

All but #2 were/could've been dreams. Someone told me that perhaps holy angels were posing as loved ones to give me comfort. I do not know the Mind of God, but I do trust Him. I never have & never will consult the dead. And I have never been visited by the same loved ones/their representations again.

[Timothy]

Originally posted by CaptainRoboT2
http://www.barbaraling.com/starwars/yoda.jpg

:pound

[wisewalk]

My nephew died a few years ago and his mother had a wonderful dream a week after he died that was a great comfort to her.
He had downs syndrome and died at age 13.
In her dream she saw him as a 'normal' thirteen year old and he looked very similar to my son, as we always thought they looked so much alike except for the down's features.
He was standing beside Jesus and gave her a smile and a thumbs up. :thumb
I feel God gave her this dream to give her the peace she needed to get through that difficult time.

[Bushwa77]

yeah when my sister died in 1994, right afterwards my mother had a dream in which my sister came to here and told her she was all right and with God and not to worry. My mother did not call up my sister it just happened. Dream? Maybe or God knew that my mom was hurting so He allowed it. We will not know until we die and get to heaven.

[skylark]

When we were kids, my sister and I shared a bedroom. One night when we were going to sleep we both felt the presence of my great grandma in the room with us. It was as though she was saying good bye to us, but also reassuring us that all was well. She was a Christian. It wasn't until afterwards that we found out that we had both experienced this. My great grandma died later in the night. She had not been sick.

After reading this thread, I wonder if this happens more often than we think. However, seeking to communicate with the dead seems to me to be an entirely different matter than an unsolicited message of comfort.