Another issue that I struggle with.

[shatteredlands]

The bible says about divorce:

And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away [his] wife? tempting him.
And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put [her] away.
And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same [matter].
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

-- Mark 10:2-12 (KJV)


I was divorced a little over a year ago, but the circumstances surrounding this I really had no control over. My wife and I were having hard times...I tried everything to try to work on things, but my effort was futile because she refused to lift even a finger to help things. I suggested marriage counseling several times, to which she replied "You are the one that needs counseling, not me." :frusty I honestly know in my heart that I tried and that what happened was not really my fault insomuchas it takes two to make a relationship work...I was the one TRYING to work on it, but by myself, and with no help from her, my efforts were in vain. To make a LOOOONG story short, I came home from work one day and she was gone. I received word from an internet "friend" of ours, whom she had never met in person, that I was the most vile, awful husband she had ever had (I was her third, I guess that should have sent up some red flags in the beginning, but I was in love). Well, that felt good, needless to say :cry That day was the worst day of my life thusfar. Now, my question is...knowing that I really had no way of knowing (It really did catch me by suprise)or real control over how the events unfolded, does that mean that I can NEVER marry again, according to the scripture? I know that God knows of my folly and He knows that I loved my wife with all of my heart, and I still do 14 months after she left and without seeing or hearing from her at all in that time.
The problem I see in the future is this: let's say I meet a woman and we hit it off well and we see each other often and we get to talking and disclosing things about our personal lives and past...would a woman, or anyone for that matter, see cause to end the relationship based on the scripture qouted above, or am I reading too much into things?

Frank

*edited to correct a misspelled word... tryed = tried!" :doh *

[D'Light]

Frank;

I really do not have sound advice on this. I wondered, about the scriptural details on this myself. I have been divorced and remarried. I really did not learn scriture like I should have when I was younger, I thought the old testiment said 'no' and the new testement said 'yes' . I was wrong.

In just my opinion, what I pick up from it , is that the divorce decree was given out by Moses, not by Jesus, or by Jesus' authority.

I think, God excuses divorce only, if you leave because your spouse was committing adultery and that spouse is not willing to come to the lord and live in his walk. It also says something else about a spouse that is unsaved and will not come to the lord, but I really did not understand it very well.

These are 'just ' things I picked up on in scripture, I would talk to a pastor.

[Bondservant]

My understanding of handling this biblically is that as long is there any possibility of reconciliation, you should be praying for that and leaving yourself unattached. If and when your former spouse closes the door for reconcilliation (by remarriage herself) then it becomes evident that the door to reconcilliation is closed. Then and only then are you free to remarry.

[DeeLeeKay]

shattered,

Is your wife saved? If not then you are free to remarry, but, only in the Lord.

If she is saved, is there a chance at reconsiliation? Is she currently have extra marritial affairs?

If she is having affairs then I would say you are also free.

[D'Light]

The only thing I found on marring again is if you are a widow or widower, I may have missed something on that elsewhere.

[D'Light]

I think? Once she has 'been' with another man after divorce, you are not to take her back, I'm not sure about the right to marry just because she does, I caught that, if she was unfaithful while you were still married, you could seek 'divorce'.

Yes, also, God wants us to try and reconcile, if we are still married and spouse is unfaithful, before we make any other choices.

[Ponderin]

Hey! I don't know how much you like to read but this is a great article I found. You know what is hypocritical? "Some people" really do like to make out like divorce is the only unfogivable sin. It is not.





Divorce on Trial (http://www.biblebb.com/files/DIVOT.HTM)


There is more in the link. This from my perspective is what pops out at me. You may find more in there by clicking on the link, though.

CHAPTER THREE

The Verdict for Today

After considering the evidence of Jesus in Matthew 19 and the evidence of Paul in 1 Corinthians 7, we must not overlook the verdict rendered on the subject in 1 Corinthians 7. That verdict relates to our responsibilities today in light of this revelation God has given us. Some of you may have been divorced and are now remarried. Some of you may have been divorced more than once. What if you are in your second, third, fourth or fifth marriage? The number of times is not a relevant issue. What if you have been divorced and are remarried? First Corinthians 7:20 speaks to that issue. "Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called." In other words, God picks you up where you are. If you are married now, even if this is your fifth marriage, this is the marriage relationship you have; and God views that as binding.

The Past Is the Past

What you have done in the past is the past. Sin is sin, and we praise God for forgiveness. This sin is no more unforgivable than any other sin. So I think we need to be careful with the stigma we sometimes place on it. If you are in this kind of situation, that is where you are. What you did may have been wrong. You may think, Maybe that is why this one is not working out. God is not honoring it. This is our third marriage, and maybe we ought to divorce. No. God picks you up where you are. He recognizes the marriage relationship you are in now as binding. And so you go on from here. The past is forgiven; praise God, it is past. It is just as forgiven as any other sin—covetousness, lying, stealing or anger; it is under the blood and forgiven. So God picks you up where you are.

You may say, "Yeah, but I was a Christian when I did that." It does not make any difference at this point. But if you are not divorced now, be careful that you do not try to put God in a box and say, "Well, I will just get a divorce and get remarried, and then I will tell God I am sorry." Our flesh is so perverted that sometimes we may do the wrong thing saying God will have to forgive us anyway because we are His children. He will forgive us; there is no doubt about that. But make no doubt about the fact that you will experience the discipline of God. You cannot pull anything over on God. You may say "David ended up with Bathsheba, and he came out of it all right. He committed immorality with her, murdered her husband, and then he got married to her; and beyond all that Solomon was their offspring." But if you read about it, you will find that David did not get away with any of it. If this is where you are, praise God that you are forgiven for the past. So, however you got into this marriage, it is the marriage God wants you to stay in now. God recognizes it as binding. You must set about making it a Biblical relationship.

[shatteredlands]

No, believe me when I say the door to her is closed. I got her cell phone number from one of her other ex-husbands (we are good friends now). Left her a message or two but she never got back to me. Haven't seen or talked to her since the day she left, August 6th, 2002. From what I understand, she moved in with that "friend" I mentioned in the above post, although I have no idea as to the credibility of that. Is she saved?...I can't say for certain since I have had no contact with her, but I will go out on a limb and say a big NO. There are many, many more factors to this that I have not mentioned. She was very flirtatious and, seemingly, addicted to the internet, among other things...and is just a very selfish person, honestly the most selfish I have ever met. Yet, I loved her with all of my heart and still do. Man, am I a whako or what??? :wacko She did the same thing to her other ex, so that right there comforts me in the fact that it seemed inevitable that she would leave and I didn't really do anything wrong. I could go into how she left, and what she did to me in the months leading up to August 6th, that I only found out about afterwards...but that only builds upon her selfishness and I don't know that it's really relevent beyond that. Trust me, I know I wasn't the perfect husband, but I woukd have given anything for her to be happy, even my life. She expressed no such desire to ensure my happiness. The thing that really gets me worked up is that, if I should take these scriptures literally and with no exception, I am in for one lonely life just because my ex decided to run away instead of trying just a little. I know I am not perfect and I don't mean to belittle her by saying all of these things, I am just trying to get my point across. When I say lonely, I mean lonely as in without the type of love a man shows for his wife and viceversa. I know I have brothers and sisters here and Jesus is always with me. My main gripe, as in with my struggle with Catholicism, is that my choice here was made for me just as my choice in denomination was made for me by my parents when I was an infant. I had no choice but divorce, plain and simple. It was the LAST thing I wanted and I STILL wish it wouldn't have come to that. But, when she tells me thast she doesn't need counseling but I do...what can I do? Drag her into a family counselor's office? I am just thankful that we didn't have any children. She has three by one of her previous marriages that she hasn't talked to in probably 2 1/2 years even though she lives only 45 mins away from them (she moved back to Texas when she left, and I am in Las Vegas). Add a child to this mess and it complicates things 10 fold, not only for myself, but for the child as well. Thanks for your replies, all. They do mean a lot to me!

Frank

[shatteredlands]

Originally posted by Ponderin
God picks you up where you are. He recognizes the marriage relationship you are in now as binding. And so you go on from here. The past is forgiven; praise God, it is past. It is just as forgiven as any other sin—covetousness, lying, stealing or anger; it is under the blood and forgiven. So God picks you up where you are.



Thanks, this makes me feel a little better...I will read the rest of it on the link when I have a little more time. I know I still must pray for guidance and that if I do meet someone that they, and God, will accept this. Thank you!

Frank

[Singlesis]

Divorce is sin, but sin is forgiven.

Psalm 103:12
As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

John 8:11
...And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

Hebrews 10:17
17then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more."[1]

[cindyw]

an interesting read to ponder..........


http://www.marriagedivorce.com/rudvin.pdf

http://www.marriagedivorce.com

[Ponderin]

You are welcome Frank. I think we can all see God's word is clear on this matter.

I believe the article is balanced. No one is saying Divorce is a blessing. No one is saying there is no consequence. I do, however, see where misguided legalist and liberals ie. Pharasees and Sadducees have twist this all around to the point of bring God's vengence on themselves though.


You would think people would understand God's Grace is not a license to sin but being deceived and blinded by the god of this world is certainly given.


Hebrew 10

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?


Anyone who thinks this is an unforgivable sin as I undertand the Spirit of Grace need to think again, no?

[cindyw]

Originally posted by Ponderin
You are welcome Frank. I think we can all see God's word is clear on this matter.

If it were so clear, there would not be so many who come here after reading the Word questioning why practices within the Body of Christ do not seem to align with the Word. That is exactly what led me into deeper study on this issue----It certainly wasn't because I was a "legalist" or "liberal"-------as those of us who hold to obedience to the Word are many times labelled. For sure God's grace is not a license to sin, it is there to cover our sins when we come broken and repentant. However, grace certainly should not be used as an excuse/reason to stay in sin either. JMHO. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy:):

[Ponderin]

Cindy,

I did not read your link. I do however, agree with the article i posted.

If you are not clear on the matter perhaps, my wording was wrong.

Please forgive my error.

However, I never said anyone should remain in sin. I hope you understood that part.

:wave

[cindyw]

Thanks for the clarification.:):

[Leigh]

Originally posted by cindyw
an interesting read to ponder..........


http://www.marriagedivorce.com/rudvin.pdf

http://www.marriagedivorce.com


I skimmed through the first link. Did I get the gist of it?

According to the article, anyone who is divorced (even because of an adulterous spouse), and is remarried, is considered to be living in adultery and should divorce.

:freaked

[cindyw]

Originally posted by Ponderin
Hey! I don't know how much you like to read but this is a great article I found. You know what is hypocritical? "Some people" really do like to make out like divorce is the only unfogivable sin. It is not.


<<<<<<<<<<< First Corinthians 7:20 speaks to that issue. "Let each man remain in that condition in which he was called." In other words, God picks you up where you are. If you are married now, even if this is your fifth marriage, this is the marriage relationship you have; and God views that as binding.>>>>>>>>

<<<<<<<<<<So, however you got into this marriage, it is the marriage God wants you to stay in now. God recognizes it as binding. You must set about making it a Biblical relationship. >>>>>>>>>>>>

I know this is a difficult issue to address cause I've been involved with these discussions several times, but proper application of scripture needs to be addressed here. The two statements above: First of all, do you agree with this writer that even if something (a lifestyle/relationship) has been deemed scripturally unlawful/continuous sin by Jesus' own words, then the person should still stay in that unlawful relationship? Does that work with a committed lifelong homosexual union? Will God honor and accept as binding something He has called unlawful/sin? I agree that many times we would like God to "go along" with our choices whether He agrees with them or not, but does He? Because we or society have accepted relationships as Aok, does God then have to come in agreement to those relationships---sinful or not?

[cindyw]

Originally posted by Leigh
I skimmed through the first link. Did I get the gist of it?

According to the article, anyone who is divorced (even because of an adulterous spouse), and is remarried, is considered to be living in adultery and should divorce.

:freaked

Yes, that's the gist of it and his views are what the Early church believed as well which can easily be verified in the ECF documents. Blessings in Jesus,Cindy:):

[Ponderin]

Originally posted by Leigh
I skimmed through the first link. Did I get the gist of it?

According to the article, anyone who is divorced (even because of an adulterous spouse), and is remarried, is considered to be living in adultery and should divorce.

:freaked




:freaked

I believe is putting it mildly.




However, I believe

:wacko

Would best discribe the author of that untruth. After reading and rereading Hebrews 10 God's Grace is not something to be trampled.

[cindyw]

Originally posted by cindyw
I know this is a difficult issue to address cause I've been involved with these discussions several times, but proper application of scripture needs to be addressed here. The two statements above: First of all, do you agree with this writer that even if something (a lifestyle/relationship) has been deemed scripturally unlawful/continuous sin by Jesus' own words, then the person should still stay in that unlawful relationship? Does that work with a committed lifelong homosexual union? Will God honor and accept as binding something He has called unlawful/sin? I agree that many times we would like God to "go along" with our choices whether He agrees with them or not, but does He? Because we or society have accepted relationships as Aok, does God then have to come in agreement to those relationships---sinful or not?

Never mind. I see this issue is being discussed already in 2 other threads...........:):