What do I say?

[MindieRose]

I know that this is a very similar topic in another thread, but I had to post this for advice.
My cousin and best friend is in the processof divorcing her abusive husband. He is also a cumpulsive liar. In the beginning I supported her leaving him, and I still do, just to separate and get counsiling, not the divorce or start dating thing though.
Well she says she hates being alone, and within a week of kicking him out, has a serious boyfriend that she is sleeping with and has taken over the head of the household roll. He is always preaching about how good a christian he is, and how the man needs to be incontrol, and the woman submissive, and insists that she submits to him. Did I mention HIS divorce is not final? I cannot stand this guy, he makes me sick to my stomach. He makes jokes about my breasts all the time, and is always flirting with other women, saying that he just likes the attention. I just want her husband to change and come back, it is driving me crazy. Before this guy, I had her going to church with me. Now he tells her that he doesnt like my church and they need to find a church together, but he wont find a church either. He is taking over her life, and she thinks that he is a great guy because he grew up in a christian home and knows all the Bible stories. I think he is a creep and a hypocrate, and controling. He drinks a lot, smokes, swears a lot, is commiting adulty, so is she, and she says that she keeps praying that God will bless their relationship! How do I tell her THAT SHE IS COMMITING ADULTERY AND GOD DOES NOT BLESS RELATIONSHIPS LIKE THAT? Not to mention in just a couple of months he has "cheated" with his wife, and some girl from the bar!

[DeeLeeKay]

Sounds to me your cousin might be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I would recommend that she get some counseling for her pastor or a Christian Counselor. She needs some time to heal from her abusive husband and not remarry. Abuse is not a reason for divorce in the bible. I would not counsel she stay with her abusive husband, but it sounds like she is rebelling. That is more problematic then her leaving her husband. They both are commiting adultery at the moment and they need to repent and get right with God.

[cindyw]

I second what Dee said.........:thumb -------sad situation.......:(:

[RJs here]

MindieRose said: .and within a week of kicking him out, has a serious boyfriend that she is sleeping with ...........He is always preaching about how good a christian he is,


Sorry!!


This is an oxymoron!!



1 Cor 6: 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[1] nor sodomites,

10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.



Furthermore, while abuse may not be biblical grounds for divorce ~ I do heartily adhere to & recommend SEPARATION!!!

But ~ that does not mean hopping in the sack with another guy!!

[cindyw]

RJ,

I know we don't agree on some things ;): , but you do crack me up. You have such a way with words........:pound :D:

[RJs here]

Cindy: :kiss


Love ya' Girlfriend!! :D:

[cindyw]

Originally posted by RJs here
Cindy: :kiss


Love ya' Girlfriend!! :D:

back at ya!:kiss

[AlishaGail]

Wow, I hate to see women end up like this. :(:

I think you know all this, or it wouldn't be tearing at your heart to see your friend go thru this, but a woman shouldn't be thinking that she NEEDS a man!!!!

I won't address the wrongs of this situation because they're all clear and you've already addressed them yourself (sleeping around before the divorces are over, allowing him to have the husband's role when he isn't her husband and isn't accomplishing the spiritual head role very well anyway, etc). However, she needs to know that if she's trying to escape an abusive situation, she needs to find her strengths first, foremost her strength in God.

People will always disapoint us. They don't always mean to, but that's the point that God wants us to know, that HE will never let us down. We can and are supposed to love our spouses, but God is supposed to be above them in the order of our lives. What if they die? then the woman will be left by herself again. God never commanded us as women to marry ASAP... Rather, He says we are to get our lives in order with HIm first before adding anyone else in. That's not even talking about the MAN'S role in it all, to be our examples, our Godly leaders.

I guess it's always been going around, but lately I've noticed so many single people on this board wanting a significant other. Most of the time they do have their priorities straight, realizing that they're lonely and that it wouldnt' do to jump at the first available person that comes along, but sometimes they think that they need a man or a woman to complete them, and that's what it sounds like your friend is doing. It's sad, but unfortunately they just can't see that as what they're doing. Until they see it themselves, they'll not change. :(:

Lisha

[Keith58]

You need to drag your cousin kicking and screaming if necessary away from that guy. That sounds like very bad news.

You'll very likely really piss her off, but no matter, get here out of there.

The guy is a liar and a control freak.

:yell :yell

[OBKB]

The tenderest word in our language, the most pathetic fact within our knowledge, is maternity. Around this sacred word cluster the joys and sorrows, the agonies and ecstasies, of the human race. The mother walks in the shadow of death that she may give another life. Upon the altar of love she puts her own life in pawn. When the world is civilized, no wife will become a mother against her will. Man will then know that to enslave another is to imprison him self.
Robert G. Ingersoll [1833-1899]

[MindieRose]

I just talked to her again. I just feel like I cant do this anymore. I bare so many of her problems. Part of me just wants to wash my hands of her. She has 2 kids 5 and 3, both boys. I cannot even write half of the reasons this guy drives me nuts. And what kind of mother is she by acting this way? She is drinking a lot now too, her language is terrible, she has daycare kids and still smokes all day long. I cannot believe her. And he is just an idiot. He talks a good talk, he is just like a salesman. But when it comes down to it, he is a really bad person. He thinks he is so good looking, he tells her that she will never find anyone better looking than him, or with a better butt (gag), he isnt good looking to me at all. He runs around the house in thong underwear, in FRONT OF her kids!! The dude is not right. He does it because he said he likes how his butt looks in them. He came to my sons bday party the other day and told my mom she was looking sexy, she has never talked to him before!! He insists that being drunk is not a sin, rather being a drunkard is. He would fall into both catagories to me anyways. He justifies his divorce by saying his wife and him were unequally yoked because she wasnt water baptized. Hes a lush and an adulterer!! I just want to walk away from this, I do, it eats at me so badly. I dont want my cousin to live this sort of life, but I cant make her grow up in Christ. Would it make me a bad Christian to just stop talking to her for awhile and just pray? I feel like at this point I am not a good witness to her because of my frustration with the both of them.

[chris_h]

Girl, it's simple. Just simply show her the Scriptures about divorce, adultery, and how adulterers won't inherit heaven, and the kingdom of God.

[DeeLeeKay]

Mindie,

I think that would be a good idea. Back off for a while and pray about it. The Lord will give you some wisdom in what should be done.

[RJs here]

I agree with DeeLeeKay ~ as BAD as this guy is ~ and as MUCH as he's affecting you PERSONALLY {not to mention your trying to shoulder HER problems as well}


then ~ "backing off" from the relationship and praying for her is the GRANDEST IDEA yet!!

And btw, if you don't -- then Scripture says that bad company CORRUPTS the good!! I'm not saying you would slide into their lifestyle -- but I am saying their BAD influence would be a bigger influence on you -- than your GOOD ONE would be on them.


BTW ~ 2 things: I believe it's James 5 that talks about when we get someone back on track -- that we're doing them a favor & saving them from "fire". {most around here believe in OSAS ~ I personally do not..... not when we're not WILLING to FOLLOW Jesus}

Pls. read James 5 at your earliest convenience.


But IMO, you don't have to talk to her at this point & carry on a conversation that's going to wear YOU down in the process.....

a simple, nice, snail-mail note might do nicely!!


You don't want to "preach" to her ~ which would turn her off even further -- but just tell her b/c you love her that you want her to be able to see the light. That you want 'good things' in her life ~ that the Lord wants that for her, TOO!!



Oh, the other thing -- tee-hee -- in the future, it would help SOOO much if you wouldn't mind breaking your posts down into EASIER-TO-READ paragraphs!!

The ol' eyeballs :freaked are not young anymore ya' know!?!

:D: ~ thanks!

[FoC]

Sounds to me your cousin might be jumping from the frying pan into the fire. I would recommend that she get some counseling for her pastor or a Christian Counselor. She needs some time to heal from her abusive husband and not remarry. Abuse is not a reason for divorce in the bible. I would not counsel she stay with her abusive husband, but it sounds like she is rebelling. That is more problematic then her leaving her husband. They both are commiting adultery at the moment and they need to repent and get right with God.
Does the bible permit putting away a spouse for abuse?

Actually, it does seem to give grounds for 'putting away' for things like abuse, ect.

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord:
If any brother hath a wife that believeth not,
and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
(1Co 7:12)

The wording there clearly shows that if she is 'pleased' then let him not put her away.
This statement is conditional.
It doesnt not simply state 'let him not put her away' but adds the condition of being 'pleased' to his not putting her away.
If this were an absolute statement, that he not put her away then it should be stated as such, but its not. A condition is very apparent in the actual text.

So what does this word 'pleased' mean?

G4909
1) to be pleased together with, to approve together (with others)
2) to be pleased at the same time with, consent, agree to
2a) to applaud

the word clearly shows a mutually pleasant experience.
She is pleased along with him...at the same time....'together'.

If one spouse is being beaten, they would hardly be "pleased together with" the person who is beating them....so why does Paul show the condition of mutual pleasing if there is no condition at all ?

In taking the actual greek into account, we clearly see a condition added to Pauls stating that this man not 'put away' his wife. The condition being that the marriage is pleasing mutually... the greek does not show a one sided thing at all.

Paul then shows the same thing in reverse for the believing wife in this situation....

And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
(1Co 7:13)

"leave him" there is the same as 'put away' in the previous verse.

G863
aphie?mi
Thayer Definition:
1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c2a) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute


The context of 'divorce' as a whole in scripture is either the casting out of a spouse or the leaving of a marriage with the intent of 'putting away' that marriage (altho there are some who try to pretend the two are not the same intent)

If we jump back up to verse 7:11 we see that this woman who has departed her marriage is deemed 'unmarried' by Paul....Agamos/single/unwed/ARAMOC


G22
agamos
Thayer Definition:
1) unmarried, unwedded, single

I think the greek makes it very clear that in a situation where a believer is married to an unbeliever who is abusing them that the condition above that Paul presents does give 'grounds' for divorcing the spouse (leaving the marriage)

Pauls condition of if it is "pleased" (meaning mutually) is the 'grounds' for putting away this spouse if they are abusing and its not pleasing.
The "leaving" of the believer would cause them to be "agamos" or unwed/single/unmarried according to Paul thus showing that they are quite divorced when they left with that intent.

In a case of two believers tho, there is a call to reconcile or remain unmarried.
Of course, some folks move on because they no longer wish to be abused.

Those in Corinth were putting away a spouse when they became born again, even if the marriage was otherwise fine.
Paul tells them in this passage to not end their marriages simply because they found Christ and their spouse had not.
If the marriage is ok otherwise, if it is ‘pleased’...then do not put away this spouse but stay with them because the believers influence might be used to bring salvation to this person.

The conditional statement made by Paul clearly shows that there might be a situation whereby the believer may put away this spouse.
If the marriage is abusive it is hardly mutually ‘pleased’ and as such the condition is not being met as presented by Paul.

Regardless of what some teach, there ARE conditions whereby divorce is permissible and as such is not ‘sin’ for the one carrying the divorce out. Just as we know the Lord God did not ‘sin’ against an adulterous Israel when He gave her a bill of divorce.